Is Faith bisexual

[DoctorWhovian]

I actually just found something that was said on commentary:

"And here we got the growing lesbian subtext between these two, which was always fun to play with. And Eliza was always, kind of, pushing the sexuality. And no one remembered to stop her from doing that, which we're all very happy about."
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Two: The heart-drawing on the classroom window


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"And here she comes. And there's the heart. Again - lesbian subtext. But the heart with the stake through it. "Let's go stake some vampires in the heart". And yet it's this kind of romantic image at the same time. It's almost a seduction. You know, Faith is very sexy and she's saying "Come play with me".

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

As far as I'm concerned It's what she is...I've always assumed so. What Joss says is irrelevant. She could be gay, she could be a tranny or she could be straight, but it's up to viewers to decide.

Emm, no its not.

Its up to Faith and by extention Joss to decide.

It isn't up to me to decide that you are straight, gay or a transgender person, thats up to you.

 

[DoctorWhovian]

So now evidence is hear say at a convention?

I never said that.

It was something which Joss himself had said.

I just looked myself, but couldn't find the thread.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I actually just found something that was said on commentary:

"And here we got the growing lesbian subtext between these two, which was always fun to play with. And Eliza was always, kind of, pushing the sexuality. And no one remembered to stop her from doing that, which we're all very happy about."
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Two: The heart-drawing on the classroom window


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"And here she comes. And there's the heart. Again - lesbian subtext. But the heart with the stake through it. "Let's go stake some vampires in the heart". And yet it's this kind of romantic image at the same time. It's almost a seduction. You know, Faith is very sexy and she's saying "Come play with me".

As it is 3:30am and I have to be up at 8:00am I am now going to defer you to the links on the previous page.

 

[nerd4hire]

Or, you can go to the thread I just posted for the references on this subject.

Quotes and Reference on the Lesbian Subtext Question - Buffy-Boards

 

[InsaneMystic]

@ BotD

I got a nit to pick in your statements. (yeah, even if you say you don't care much, but I can't resist 😛 )

Emm, no its not.

Its up to Faith and by extention Joss to decide.

It isn't up to me to decide that you are straight, gay or a transgender person, thats up to you.

Bisexual, by its very definition is someone who has or does have sexual intercourse with with members of both genders.
I haven't read the comics but I am fully aware of Buffy's little love in with Satsu.
This makes her bisexual. This also makes Willow bisexual.

If you're serious on quote #1, you can't uphold quote #2 (into whose definition of bi I don't buy anyway - one kumshuck with either gender each, and whoops, you're bisexual? IMO, the matter is quite a tad more complicated). By the standards "it's up to her to decide", Willow is most definitely gay, not bisexual, by right of "she said so".

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

@ BotD

I got a nit to pick in your statements. (yeah, even if you say you don't care much, but I can't resist 😛 )



If you're serious on quote #1, you can't uphold quote #2 (into whose definition of bi I don't buy anyway - one kumshuck with either gender each, and whoops, you're bisexual? IMO, the matter is quite a tad more complicated). By the standards "it's up to her to decide", Willow is most definitely gay, not bisexual, by right of "she said so".

Umm, yes I can.

Bisexual is someone who has, or does, have sexual intercourse with members of either gender. It is an accurate external description of those that said it based on what has happened. It is a label that society places, one that fits this. HOWEVER, I would not argue with Willow when she says she is gay because that is what she believes herself to be.

Technically she is bisexual BUT she has chosen to assign herself the label of gay so that is what she is.

I have a friend who is 19 years old. He has only ever had sexual intercourse with women which would, by definition, make him heterosexual however he adamantly argues that he is bisexual because he knows that one day he will go with a man.

He technically is one thing but fervently argues he is something else.


In the case of Faith though, she has only slept with men as far as we know and she doesn't seem too quick to try lady loving so by technicality or personal choice we conclude she is heterosexual.

 

[Airam]

Well despite my current sig, I believe Faith was just hetero... I think all the subtext we saw or chose to interpret is really just mere fanwank and wishful thinking on the part of fans and also how Eliza went about playing Faith... cause its not just about the writing, the actors have a 50/50 infuence on how the character comes across. And well, I always go with canon in the end and from the line that has been quoted from S8, Faith has no interest in going there with girls.

 

[InsaneMystic]

Bored of the Dead agrees: I didn't realise you had to be 'with me' on my opinion. You made a claim, I gave you a reason why you were wrong. I don't care for convincing others because there is no point in a place like this

What I'm not with you on is not your opinion (i.e. Faith = straight; the referenced comic panel made me accept that as canon already).

It's your definition of [fill in blank]sexuality (something one "is") based on technical behavior (something one "does"). I'm deeply enough entrenched in the ancient "body vs. mind/soul" mode of thinking to take exception to that. 🙂

And to have any kind of meaningful discussion on any topic, one would have to understand the other side's definitions - and that certainly includes deciding whether one is with them on these defs or not, and possibly challenging them (if you can uphold them after getting challenged, so much the better for you 😉 ). I get that your goal may not be to convince, but if it weren't to be understood, why should you post anything at all? 😀

But, once again... I'll let it rest here.

 

[DoctorWhovian]

Umm, yes I can.

Bisexual is someone who has, or does, have sexual intercourse with members of either gender. It is an accurate external description of those that said it based on what has happened. It is a label that society places, one that fits this. HOWEVER, I would not argue with Willow when she says she is gay because that is what she believes herself to be.

Technically she is bisexual BUT she has chosen to assign herself the label of gay so that is what she is.

I have a friend who is 19 years old. He has only ever had sexual intercourse with women which would, by definition, make him heterosexual however he adamantly argues that he is bisexual because he knows that one day he will go with a man.

He technically is one thing but fervently argues he is something else.


In the case of Faith though, she has only slept with men as far as we know and she doesn't seem too quick to try lady loving so by technicality or personal choice we conclude she is heterosexual.

Willow is gay.

Just watch 'Him'. She was going to change RJ into a woman to be with him.

Just because she once slept with a boy, doesn't mean she is bisexual and is attracted to men.
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Well despite my current sig, I believe Faith was just hetero... I think all the subtext we saw or chose to interpret is really just mere fanwank and wishful thinking on the part of fans and also how Eliza went about playing Faith... cause its not just about the writing, the actors have a 50/50 infuence on how the character comes across. And well, I always go with canon in the end and from the line that has been quoted from S8, Faith has no interest in going there with girls.

Well the writers have admitted to there being lesbian subtext there. I suppose since it wasn't from Joss it doesn't count

/sarcasm

 

[nerd4hire]

Petrie says the subtext was there. He doesn't say what the intent or meaning of it was. He just says he liked it. He appears to suggest it's introduction was more the initiative of Eliza Dushku than his own.

Bad Girls Writer Commentary exerpts:
"And here we have the growing lesbian subtext between these two - which was always fun to play with. Eliza was always pushing the sexuality and no one remembered to stop her from that - which we are very happy about."

Petrie - On Method writing about "Bad Girls":
"There was a girl in my high school who I remember was an actual "bad girl" who I will protect by not naming her - and I remember her coming to the window of a class and breathing on the glass and drawing a little image on it and calling another girl out - so that's based on life."

"I love this - and there's the heart again - lesbian subtext - but the heart with the stake through it - that's got stakes and vampires - and yet it's this kind of romantic image at the same time because it's almost a seduction - Faith is very sexy and she's saying come play with me."

That last line is interesting. "Faith is very sexy and she's saying come play with me." Not Faith is very sexy, digs girls as well as guys and saying come play with me.

 

[DoctorWhovian]

That last line is interesting. "Faith is very sexy and she's saying come play with me." Not Faith is very sexy, digs girls as well as guys and saying come play with me.

He never says 'She digs guys', but we know she does.

 

[nerd4hire]

He never says 'She digs guys', but we know she does.

We know she does, because we see her with guys. We hear her describing heterosexual relationships with them, dysfunctional as they may be.

We never see or hear of Faith in any kind of sexual circumstance with the same sex. The only time it's ever mentioned is in Season 8 when she says she doesn't swing that way.

I see girls on talk shows sometimes talking about what flirts they are. They say they flirt with everybody even girls. Does that make them bisexual? They don't appear to think they are.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Willow is gay.

Just watch 'Him'. She was going to change RJ into a woman to be with him.

Just because she once slept with a boy, doesn't mean she is bisexual and is attracted to men.

IF you're going to quote me read what I say rather than argue because it makes you look a little bit silly.

It is a label that society places, one that fits this. HOWEVER, I would not argue with Willow when she says she is gay because that is what she believes herself to be.

Technically she is bisexual BUT she has chosen to assign herself the label of gay so that is what she is.

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We know she does, because we see her with guys. We hear her describing heterosexual relationships with them, dysfunctional as they may be.

We never see or hear of Faith in any kind of sexual circumstance with the same sex. The only time it's ever mentioned is in Season 8 when she says she doesn't swing that way.

I see girls on talk shows sometimes talking about what flirts they are. They say they flirt with everybody even girls. Does that make them bisexual? They don't appear to think they are.

I absolutely agree. In fact if you look on this very board, in threads I an others have opened, you may find female members actually admitting to 'kissing' some of their female friends however they catagorise themselves as heterosexual.


I have to be quite honest now, DoctorWhovian has bored me to death on this subject so this is my final post in this particular thread.

 

[DoctorWhovian]

We know she does, because we see her with guys. We hear her describing heterosexual relationships with them, dysfunctional as they may be.

We never see or hear of Faith in any kind of sexual circumstance with the same sex. The only time it's ever mentioned is in Season 8 when she says she doesn't swing that way.

I see girls on talk shows sometimes talking about what flirts they are. They say they flirt with everybody even girls. Does that make them bisexual? They don't appear to think they are.

That wasn't my point. You said that he didn't claim she was into girls, but it doesn't need to be said to be true.
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IF you're going to quote me read what I say rather than argue because it makes you look a little bit silly.


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I absolutely agree. In fact if you look on this very board, in threads I an others have opened, you may find female members actually admitting to 'kissing' some of their female friends however they catagorise themselves as heterosexual.


I have to be quite honest now, DoctorWhovian has bored me to death on this subject so this is my final post in this particular thread.

You still claimed that she was bisexual. That is what I was responding to.

Well thanks for singling me out and claiming that I am the one who has bored you. How kind of you.

 

[nerd4hire]

Yeah, no offense, or anything DW, but I think I'm going to sign off from this one as well. There's no purpose in trying to debate blind faith. Nothing of worth can come of it.

 

[DoctorWhovian]

Yeah, no offense, or anything DW, but I think I'm going to sign off from this one as well. There's no purpose in trying to debate blind faith. Nothing of worth can come of it.

Ok, I just don't get why you would get involved in the frist place.

 

[Kali]

OK for what it's worth.

Faith is predatory. Part of that is about having power over people and Buffy presents a challenge, because a) Faith can feed off of Buffy if she becomes more like Faith - they can have some real fun of the bad girl kind, and Faith can really let rip and b) Buffy is powerful, and therefore is not afraid of Faith, and I think Faith really wants to sometimes be led by someone else, in a bad or good way. Like with the Mayor.

She uses her sexuality to test people, to seek out weaknesses and to try and make them do her will - to size them up. With Buffy, because of Buffy's moral core, Faith is turning up the dial with the only weapon she has ever had - her sexuality. Doesn't mean she is bi. Just means she is attracted to the power. Want... take... have... by any means possible.

And now I am going to tootle off and change my avatar..... cos that all sems a bit personal! Honestly I'm a pussycat I truly am!

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

You still claimed that she was bisexual. That is what I was responding to.

Well thanks for singling me out and claiming that I am the one who has bored you. How kind of you.

Ok, I just don't get why you would get involved in the frist place.

I know I said the previous was my last post on the subject BUT I just wanted to clear something up.

DoctorWhovian, one of the negative aspects of fandom and forums is the fact that certain things will be discussed continuously, they will get rehashed often, and if you have had the (mis?)fortune of being here for quite a long time you will have stated your case numerous times already.

The reason I personally singled you out was because your rebuttals were seeking me to post pretty much the same response every post I made in this thread, you simply didn't seem to grasp my POV so the best thing to do in that situation is leave the discussion.

I don't come here to change anyones mind, I have my opinions, my beliefs, and I stick to them. I have all the evidence and proof I require to stick with them and until that is added to, I am very happy with it.

You seem to still be searching for yours and a few people gave you the 'evidence' that was presented and that isn't enough. Fair game, if you need more thats OK, but I shan't be the one to provide it. There are numerous other things to discuss.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

Ohh, and FYI, I said Willow was gay because that is what she believes, I merely pointed out that by the definition of what bisexual is she could be catagorised as that by someone external who didn't know her.

😉


Seriously now - DONE

 

[DoctorWhovian]

You seem to still be searching for yours and a few people gave you the 'evidence' that was presented and that isn't enough. Fair game, if you need more thats OK, but I shan't be the one to provide it. There are numerous other things to discuss.

I'm not searching for mine at all. I know what they are. I provided 'evidence' because it's what people tend to do when discussing things. To me it's evidence, to you it's not. I get it.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

Ohh, and FYI, I said Willow was gay because that is what she believes, I merely pointed out that by the definition of what bisexual is she could be catagorised as that by someone external who didn't know her.

Hmm well sleeping with a male years ago harldy makes her bi. I will be sure to tell those people : king :