Is Spike a misogynist and/or a slut?

bespangeled

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Those are two comments, or accusations that I've seen here and I disagree with both.

mi·sog·y·ny
məˈsäjənē/
noun
noun: misogyny
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.


I see no evidence that Spike has contempt or any ingrained prejudice - and his dislike seems to be toward individuals of both sexes.

As for the idea that Spike will screw anything that moves, and some things that don't, is popular in certain areas of fanon and fanfic. But the character we see in the show has had exactly 3 female lovers (Dru, Harmony, Buffy)
and one male (Angel[us])

Comments?
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
And a robot
I don't think that Spike is a misogynist. As for him being a slut. Well he was with Dru forever, and just because he's sexy and knows how to use his sex appeal doesn't make him a slut. But he also did get drunk and sleep with Anya, Also had that girl at the wedding in Hells Bells. But for the most part he's pretty loyal to his women.
 
Well, considering the definition of a slut is a woman with many casual sex partners, I don't think Spike quite fits.

In all seriousness, though, he was pretty good to both Drusilla and Buffy (at least up until 'Seeing Red'), and his fling with Anya was agreed by both of them to have been just that -- a fling. YMMV on his treatment of Harmony, but it should be noted that Buffy and Spike sleep with the same amount of people during their time on the show (four) and were bad to at least one of those people (Spike to Harmony, Buffy to Spike himself), so calling Spike a misogynist is equivalent to calling Buffy a misandrist. (As for Harmony, are you really going to call everyone who has an annoying ex a misogynist? Wanting to get away from someone irritating the piss out of you is only human nature.) As for the other women, Dru cheated on Spike several times, so he had a legitimate reason to be mad at her, while he and Buffy had a love-hate thing going which she initiated. Yes, Spike made advances, but Buffy made it official, so Spike ever forcing her into anything (other than the aforementioned rape, which isn't really misogyny since he's not technically hating on women) that she hadn't already gotten herself into is out of the question.
 
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I don't think that Spike is a misogynist. As for him being a slut. Well he was with Dru forever, and just because he's sexy and knows how to use his sex appeal doesn't make him a slut. But he also did get drunk and sleep with Anya, Also had that girl at the wedding in Hells Bells. But for the most part he's pretty loyal to his women.

I think Skanky McSkank was just there to make Buffy jealous, but for some reason I don't think he slept with her. He wasn't ready for rebound sex yet. Anya and Spike were both definitely rebound sex. But Buffy slept with Angel, Parker, Riley and Spie during the show and that's comparable. How many partners would make someone a slut - or is it a matter of sleeping with people just to have sex?

If it's the second then Wesley is definitely a man-slut when he starts sleeping with Lilah. Or not.
 
Well, considering the definition of a slut is a woman with many casual sex partners, I don't think Spike quite fits.

I think that the definition of slut has slowly evolved to include men - language is always evolving.

However - this one is a hoot - the Urban Dictionary says
slut

a woman with the morals of a man 😛


That is sexist on so many levels that the mind boggles.

I used the term slut because I saw James Marster at a con marveling at the notion of slut Spike
 
I think that the definition of slut has slowly evolved to include men - language is always evolving.

However - this one is a hoot - the Urban Dictionary says
slut

a woman with the morals of a man 😛


That is sexist on so many levels that the mind boggles.

I used the term slut because I saw James Marster at a con marveling at the notion of slut Spike

Regardless, Spike is not by any definition a slut. The only one who was used merely for the sex was Anya. He had a centuries-long relationship with Dru, a sort-of relationship with Buffy (which has progressed to being an official couple in the S10 comics), and at the very least tried to have a relationship with Harmony. Spike would be a slut if he used them and tried never to talk to them again, but as we've seen, when Spike falls he falls hard, so when he wants a relationship he'll push for it and make an attempt to get together with her.
 
I think Skanky McSkank was just there to make Buffy jealous, but for some reason I don't think he slept with her. He wasn't ready for rebound sex yet. Anya and Spike were both definitely rebound sex. But Buffy slept with Angel, Parker, Riley and Spie during the show and that's comparable. How many partners would make someone a slut - or is it a matter of sleeping with people just to have sex?
I thought that he did sleep with Skanky McSkank. But yea she was just there to make Buffy jealous. Well my dad told me that more than five is a slut, but that's just cause I'm his baby girl. I think it's a combination of the both. Like you can have sex just to have sex with only a few people, I think it's when you sleep with almost just anyone, just because you're horny. While I think Spike definitely is only with Harmony for the sex, and maybe he prefers it to being lonely, but with Dru and Buffy he wanted more than just sex, so no he's not a man-slut, although he's sexy enough that he could be.
 
I thought that he did sleep with Skanky McSkank. But yea she was just there to make Buffy jealous. Well my dad told me that more than five is a slut, but that's just cause I'm his baby girl. I think it's a combination of the both. Like you can have sex just to have sex with only a few people, I think it's when you sleep with almost just anyone, just because you're horny. While I think Spike definitely is only with Harmony for the sex, and maybe he prefers it to being lonely, but with Dru and Buffy he wanted more than just sex, so no he's not a man-slut, although he's sexy enough that he could be.

Personally I don't think Spike slept with Skanky McSkank (OK, what was her actual name?!), as you said she was there to make Buffy jealous and that's it. Spike probably made out with her a few times and ended it shortly after which, since he did not sleep with her, cannot be classified as 'slutty' behavior.

Faith is closer to the definition of a slut -- she is not a misandrist, however, because she does not explicitly hate men. Her experiences have given her a bleak outlook on what to expect from guys, and her refusal to form emotional attachments stems from her own insecurity rather than a profound hatred of men.
 
Five! Is that in a year or a lifetime? 😛
My father told me that good girls got pregnant, because only bad girls knew how to prevent getting pregnant. I suspect now that he was talking about birth control but that was back when you needed written permission from your husband to get a diaphragm, and stores refused to sell rubbers to women..

I thought that he did sleep with Skanky McSkank.

Too soon, I'd say. There was no way she could be a pretend Buffy because his heart was flopping on the floor (metaphorically) and even the thought of Buffy would have rendered him....uninterested. That's my read. I would say that he got drunk and then more drunk!

While I think Spike definitely is only with Harmony for the sex, and maybe he prefers it to being lonely, but with Dru and Buffy he wanted more than just sex, so no he's not a man-slut, although he's sexy enough that he could be.

I suspect there is a loneliness factor there, as well s sex. Until Dru left him I don't think he ever experienced life completely on his own. I'm sure they went off to different places - that much is shown. But he always knew they would get back together. I think Spike needs others as a mirror - when there is no one else there he starts to disappear. He's the perfect example of a small child who will take any sort of feedback, but can't stand being alone or ignored. It's why he really enjoys being an a**hole.

Personally I don't think Spike slept with Skanky McSkank (OK, what was her actual name?!)

Yeah - I think it is Skanky HoGoth McSkank 😀
No idea what her real name was, obviously.

Faith's refusal to form emotional bonds with the guys she sleeps with stems from her own insecurity rather than a profound hatred of men.

Yeah - but it wasn't just men. I think she summed it up well when she said she had herself and that was all she needed. That didn't change until she tried to goad Angel into killing her. They didn't show her having sex with anyone after that (though I do watch OITNB😛)
 
GoSpuffy
GoSpuffy
[No message]
They didn't show her having sex with anyone after that (though I do watch OITNB😛)

Uh, yes they did. She hooks up with Wood in Buffy S7, and until he goads her into giving him a second chance, a relationship wasn't really on Faith's to-do list.
 
bespangeled
bespangeled
Very true - forgot that one!
Personally I don't think Spike slept with Skanky McSkank (OK, what was her actual name?!), as you said she was there to make Buffy jealous and that's it. Spike probably made out with her a few times and ended it shortly after which, since he did not sleep with her, cannot be classified as 'slutty' behavior.

Faith is closer to the definition of a slut -- she is not a misandrist, however, because she does not explicitly hate men. Her experiences have given her a bleak outlook on what to expect from guys, and her refusal to form emotional attachments stems from her own insecurity rather than a profound hatred of men.
Just watched the Spike parts of Hells Bells. They don't mention her by name in the episode. And he does say that he's going to take her back to his place. But since he was just using her he might have just kicked her out. Who knows. But Yes Faith s3 is more of the slut variety. But I have no problem with that 😛. lol
Five! Is that in a year or a lifetime?
I think my dad meant in a lifetime. I think that unless you marry young or don't have a lot of relationships, then 5 is an ok number. Personally for me, I think over 20 is becoming too much. But that's just me. Doesn't make that person a slut necessarily. We don't know many women Spike slept with or how many men Faith slept with, other than what we've seen on screen, so it's not really fair to judge them or label them a slut. And I definitely wouldn't call Faith a slut to her face. lol
 
bespangeled
bespangeled
Agreed on both points - Americans tend to hold on to some very Victorian ideas about sex (ironic since the Victorian era was a premier time for pedophilia). 20+ - might just be addictive behavior
But Yes Faith s3 is more of the slut variety. But I have no problem with that 😛. lol

Hey, me neither! 😉

Doesn't make that person a slut necessarily. We don't know many women Spike slept with or how many men Faith slept with, other than what we've seen on screen, so it's not really fair to judge them or label them a slut. And I definitely wouldn't call Faith a slut to her face. lol

Well, it's really none of our business to be calling anyone a slut to their face, but from what we've seen on the show Faith is a 'get some, get gone' kinda girl, so there you go. 😛
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
I only jokingly call my friends sluts to their face. But I'd never seriously say it to someone even if I thought they were.
bespangeled
bespangeled
If someone actually is a slut then the issue is between their ears and not between their legs. People self medicate in a lot of ways - and I would say that is what Faith is doing. Sex for her is the power to use and discard, to not get close or trust.
I think Spike is neither a misogynist nor a slut.

Personally I don't think Spike slept with Skanky McSkank (OK, what was her actual name?!)

If I remember well, she didn't have a name, but the writers called her Skanky McSkank... I believe there is a commentary about that on the DVD.

And he does say that he's going to take her back to his place.

But he said "I won't"...

BUFFY: Go where? To your place?
SPIKE: Yeah, I suppose. That was the idea.
BUFFY: Yeah.
SPIKE: Evil.
BUFFY: Of course.
SPIKE: But I won't. Or I... I'll just go. Give 'em my best or whatever. The happy couple.
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
But he thinks for a second and says "or I..." meaing he at least thought about having sex with that girl.
Warren is a misogynist, I think most people agree with that.

Warren calls women bitches, tries to beat them up/kill them, builds sex-bots so he can have control over them, tries to rape women.
Dark Willow said that Warren hated Katrina because he never felt that 'he had the power with her'.

Spike calls women bitches, tries to beat them up/kill them. has sex bots of them built so he can have control over them, tries to rape women. He tells Buffy that, before the events of 'Smashed' she had all the power over him and now she doesn't.

Seems clear enough to me. Soulless Spike has misogyny in him. Soulled Spike does not.

I don't see any evidence that soulless Spike is a 'slut', he's a vampire- they do what/whoever they like. That's the appeal of being a vampire!
I imagine he and Drusilla slept with other people during their century long romance- (Spike is shown to have slept with Pearl in a flashback scene during 'A Dark Place') sex is just sex after all, but then that's probably what all good looking vampires do if they have the chance.

But I think, judging by S5 of Angel and the comics Spike isn't too picky about who he shares his affections with. He tries to sleep with Harmony (a soulless vampire) mere moments after becoming corporeal again, in S9 he spends an arc of A&F hitting on anything that moves in an attempt to get laid (Faith Giles aunts) before, again, ending up with Harmony. Even though (apparently) she used him I'd still call that being pretty desperate.
 
As for the idea that Spike will screw anything that moves, and some things that don't, is popular in certain areas of fanon and fanfic. But the character we see in the show has had exactly 3 female lovers (Dru, Harmony, Buffy)
and one male (Angel[us])

Comments?

I think, at least partly, why Spike is considered a slut is because the stereotype of vampires on the show seem to be considered pretty sexually fluid and liberated. When one views Angelus and Darla together they 'share' victims and whatnot and don't exactly strike you as the monogamous type, and I think that carries over to other vampiric couples like Spike and Dru, (or James and Elizabeth - if that were their names - from Hearthrob) because, being soulless creatures it's not a long leap to make. So from this one could ostensibly say that the Buffyverse vampires in general are "slutty" (even if it disregards the affections and preferences of the individual couples).

But one can also consider quantity a factor in "sluttiness"
To quote Willow (re: Angel but still): Wow. Two centuries of dating. If you only had two a year, that's still like 400 dates with 400 different... [awkward beat.]

The sheer longevity of their life and youth and the distances they travel and places they frolick in could also be used to make a case that - by human standards - Spike and most any other attractive, experienced vampire, is kind of "slutty"

I'm not saying that he is btw, I'm just thinking out loud. 🙂
 
That and for me at least JM seemed to effortlessly exude sensuality. Imo Spike always was a very sensual vampire, who seemed to revel in it. 😀
 
GoSpuffy
GoSpuffy
[No message]
Warren calls women bitches, tries to beat them up/kill them, builds sex-bots so he can have control over them, tries to rape women.
Dark Willow said that Warren hated Katrina because he never felt that 'he had the power with her'.

Spike calls women bitches, tries to beat them up/kill them. has sex bots of them built so he can have control over them, tries to rape women. He tells Buffy that, before the events of 'Smashed' she had all the power over him and now she doesn't.

Warren calls all women bitches - that's how he sees women.
Spike called three women bitches in one episode, but clearly had a fair degree of respect for all of the other women in the B-verse

Warren tries to beat up/kill women
Spike tries to beat up/kill Slayers - he doesn't make any attempt to kill any other women, though he does threaten Willow and Dru.

Warren builds sex bots and programs them to ineffectual, subservient, mindless and weak.
Warren builds a sex bot for Spike that is programmed to be able to fight him on an equal level, and to do the job of a slayer - hardly weak.

Warren tries to rape a woman by robbing her of any ability to resist, and when she becomes aware and protests he kills her.
Spike tries to rape a woman by using physical force, and when she kicks him across the room into a wall he is horrified at his own actions and goes to get his soul.

Warren was a soulled human who appeared in several episodes of one season - he had virtually no character growth. He never questioned himself or showed any sign of remorse.
Spike was a demon who appeared in several seasons and had a complete story arc. He constantly questioned himself and when he hurt Buffy he was filled with remorse and made reparation.

Dark Wilow was trying to destroy the world - and in particular Warren because he killed Tara - given the other things she said I would hardly call her a reliable source.

But I think, judging by S5 of Angel and the comics Spike isn't too picky about who he shares his affections with. He tries to sleep with Harmony (a soulless vampire) mere moments after becoming corporeal again

Yes, after becoming corporeal he tries to have consensual sex with an old lover. As for the rest, I don't read the comics but I understand that everyone has a fair amount of sex.

The sheer longevity of their life and youth and the distances they travel and places they frolick in could also be used to make a case that - by human standards - Spike and most any other attractive, experienced vampire, is kind of "slutty"

As an overall principal, I can definitely agree with you. While they were unsoulled demons it is heavily implied that both Angelus and Spike also liked to rape women (and that Angelus like to screw corpses), so that would raise the count even higher. However, that's all supposition really - what we saw on the show was a demon who slept with the same amount of women that Buffy did with men. From what we saw, he was no more a slut than she was during the same period of time.


That and for me at least JM seemed to effortlessly exude sensuality. Imo Spike always was a very sensual vampire, who seemed to revel in it. 😀

I agree completely - a total sensualist, quite aware of how to attract and seduce, and he knew how to use it. That actually supports the idea that he wasn't a slut, since he could have had far more partners than he is shown with.
 
However, that's all supposition really - what we saw on the show was a demon who slept with the same amount of women that Buffy did with men. From what we saw, he was no more a slut than she was during the same period of time.

.

That's true. But from what I've read there seems to be that same kind of supposition that Faith is slutty as well and we've seen her with even less partners on the actual show... in other words; it seems to me that the designation of "slut" has as much - or rather more - to do with image projected by said character (e.g. aforementioned sensuality), than it has to do with their actual actions.

(Which could be argued is the case in real life "sluts" as well. It's more about what the seem to be than what they actually are)
 
Well my dad told me that more than five is a slut

Whoops!


I think Warren was partly introduced to the show to be a misogynist character that made us think about the actions of other characters, it's no coincidence he was in the same season as the AR - with the huge irony being he was skinned alive and killed by a lesbian - but him and Spike were not the same. Warren turned up with a gun to kill Buffy because he couldn't take feeling weak and powerless at the hands of a woman, Spike turned up with a gun to kill the slayer after being rejected and insulted, he wanted his obsession to end and the chip offered no option other than a shotgun, although he pretty much instantly changed his mind when he found Buffy was upset and put the shotgun down and tried to comfort her instead. Guns in the Buffyverse are considered, what's the word.. "pathetic"..? So it made sense for Warren to resort to that.
 
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