It disgusts me when people compare

[dexeded]

I'm curious. Besides from personal taste how would one decide which show is better than another? I do it all the time and I make a huge distinction between what I think is "good" and what's entertaining/enjoyable. What are we using to measure quality if it's isn't "I like it = It's good. I don't like it = it's bad"?

That's all we have, isn't it? Our opinions. No matter how much logic one uses to convince another person that our franchise is better, it's ultimately up to them to see if the argument sways them or changes their stance, regardless of how much sense it makes to us.

I wonder if Twilight fans would say the same about those finding Buffy to be way better. Everyone that disagrees with "me" is obviously wrong...

That's how it is. You believe in something because you belive it's right; ergo, the other person, who disagrees, must be wrong. People say that just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're wrong, and that's so very nice and tolerant, but humans are not objective creatures. We have preferences. We love things because they subscribe to our own beliefs, that they support what we say, that they're right.

This topic reminds me of a video I saw on Youtube, under the user 'bigthink'. Watch the whole thing, if you can.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpNRw7snmGM&feature=relmfu"]Why Tolerance Is Condescending - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Washburne]

That's all we have, isn't it? Our opinions. No matter how much logic one uses to convince another person that our franchise is better, it's ultimately up to them to see if the argument sways them or changes their stance, regardless of how much sense it makes to us.

Not sure personal opinion is all we have but it's the easiest way to make your point in disagreements. Logic can be personal due to our experiences so it depends on which logic we use. Not that it's guaranteed to succeed no matter which one we use. It depends on how open we are to take it in.

That's how it is. You believe in something because you belive it's right; ergo, the other person, who disagrees, must be wrong. People say that just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're wrong, and that's so very nice and tolerant, but humans are not objective creatures. We have preferences. We love things because they subscribe to our own beliefs, that they support what we say, that they're right.

This topic reminds me of a video I saw on Youtube, under the user 'bigthink'. Watch the whole thing, if you can.

Why Tolerance Is Condescending - YouTube

Going from tv-shows to life philosophy. Quite a step it may seem but the principle stand I guess.

The vid seemed to be more about religion but maybe I took it wrong. Religion and the positives and negatives about it can be a very intresting discussion. He used the two extremes. There's quite the playroom in between. Or maybe I'm wrong about that too.

I don't expect people to go "Oh, I was wrong. You're definitely correct." when faced with a different opinion. Disagreeing while having some sort of understanding would be more to hope for.

If we're going from the small picture to the big the whole "I'm right and I won't consider anything else" is what leads to conflict, big or small.


To come back to my own very personal opinion. It's one thing to disagree. It's another to talk down to the people thinking differently.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

[MENTION=9575]Wash[/MENTION]burn that last sentence is so true.

 

[Username]

I've never seen Tru Blood and I never will, I don't know why I feel that way I just do. I haven't seen The Vampire Diaries either, but going from the trailers on tv and the shows fanbase it doesn't seem like something I would enjoy.
I have seen the Twilight movies though, most of them, and I think they're truly horrible, but it doesn't bother me if people compare them to Buffy, I don't care, why would I..

 

[dexeded]

Going from tv-shows to life philosophy. Quite a step it may seem but the principle stand I guess.

The vid seemed to be more about religion but maybe I took it wrong. Religion and the positives and negatives about it can be a very intresting discussion. He used the two extremes. There's quite the playroom in between. Or maybe I'm wrong about that too.

I don't expect people to go "Oh, I was wrong. You're definitely correct." when faced with a different opinion. Disagreeing while having some sort of understanding would be more to hope for.

If we're going from the small picture to the big the whole "I'm right and I won't consider anything else" is what leads to conflict, big or small.


To come back to my own very personal opinion. It's one thing to disagree. It's another to talk down to the people thinking differently.

The video's subject matter is religion, but the theme of it is basically people's opinions and tolerance, which I thought was relevant to what we were discussing... Basically, my point was just to show another POV that was demonstrated in the video: Better to passionately stand by your view than to tolerate other people's, as such tolerance is condescending. Anyway, I agree with your last point.

 

[EvilWillow]

I wonder if Twilight fans would say the same about those finding Buffy to be way better. Everyone that disagrees with "me" is obviously wrong...

The idea that sparkly vampires would even go to high school is just mundane and juvenile. Anyone with a brain can see that.

 

[Flannen]

Actually both. I know Buffy well, I know it's very very good, and I've heard what people say about it, professionals, tv peopple. It's a show that will still have fans even 10 years after it's over, and we're close to that. And I hear what people say about the others and it seems to me that they won't be what Buffy was even after she show is over. It seems to me that people love them right now because they're a trend, vampires are a trend right now. Buffy wasn't a trend, at a time when vampires weren't the big trend, never had high ratings, yet you just used to hear good things about it. Trends have the tendency to calm down after it's over, then people move on to the next thing, the next trend. I'm not saying they're not good or that people shouldn't love them, but according to what I said, they sound different from Buffy, not really in a good way. How can I trust shows/movies that are based on a trend?

It's seems a bit odd to me to suggest at this point in time, that these shows won't have fans 10 years down the line. Buffy isn't the only show that has fans after it has finished! And even the fact that it does have fans doesn't mean that it's ultimately the best show ever made. It certainly points to that but it doesn't make it factual. It's a cult TV show, it has plenty of people who don't like it. I think its quite unfair to suggest that near on millions of people only like something because it's a "trend". I don't like TVD because it's "popular", I like it because it's a very good show. Similarly, I think a lot of Twiight fans like Twilight because they enjoy the story not because "people" tell them that it is currently "in". It just seems a bit belittling to suggest people like these others shows because they're mindless followers of trends and to hold BtVS on this pedestal that's above all of that.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

It's seems a bit odd to me to suggest at this point in time, that these shows won't have fans 10 years down the line. Buffy isn't the only show that has fans after it has finished! And even the fact that it does have fans doesn't mean that it's ultimately the best show ever made. It certainly points to that but it doesn't make it factual. It's a cult TV show, it has plenty of people who don't like it. I think its quite unfair to suggest that near on millions of people only like something because it's a "trend". I don't like TVD because it's "popular", I like it because it's a very good show. Similarly, I think a lot of Twiight fans like Twilight because they enjoy the story not because "people" tell them that it is currently "in". It just seems a bit belittling to suggest people like these others shows because they're mindless followers of trends and to hold BtVS on this pedestal that's above all of that.

When in my post did I say that Buffy is the best show ever? I'm just saying it's very good, and it's true.
About the trend, as I said, how can you trust that a show is good if you don't know if people watch it because it's good or because everybody else watches it? You've seen many trends before, not only on tv, even fashion trends. Some are really ugly, yet they're trendy. But that doesn't mean they're good, right?
Buffy was never a trend, so it can't hide behind that. Truth is, we have a vampires trend today. And I'm guessing that if Twilight and vampires weren't so trendy, many wouldn't have watched it. Or at least it wouldn't be as popular, it would have been just another movie and no one would have talked about it so much. Doesn't matter if it's good or not. It wouldn't have been this popular if all of your friends (not yours, just in general) didn't watch it. It's a human tendency to try things because others do. That doesn't mean it's good, just like it doesn't mean it's bad.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

The idea that sparkly vampires would even go to high school is just mundane and juvenile. Anyone with a brain can see that.

They choose to go to school to melt into society. Anyone who had read the books would know that.

And what does the sparklyness have to do with going to school?

 

[FaithsFollower]

Guys, I think it's time to agree to disagree. For instance, I absolutely hate the idea of Spuffy and think it's stupid and ridiculous, but people love them together. Does that mean that I think they're stupid or ridiculous? Heck no! I love the Spuffies! They're awesome. We all have our preferences when it comes to our likes/dislikes and if The Chosen Slayer feels that Buffy is the greatest show about vampires bar none, then I say we let him be entitled to his opinion.

I have never seen The Vampire Diaires. I have never seen Twilight or its sequels. I have never seen True Blood. To me, and this is my personal opinion, I did that whole 'human/vampire love story' thing with Buffy and I'm completely over it. From the previews I've seen of TVD, TB, and Twilight, they all look pretty good and interesting...but to me, they just don't compare to BtVS.

You can argue with me all you want, and you'd probably be right seeing as I have never watched them, but I [probably] still wouldn't change my mind. Like I said, I'm over watching/reading about vampires. Vampires don't hold my interest any longer. I don't care if they're trendy right now or what.

I'm sure there are shows that I absolutely love that other people on here would think are trashy and/or stupid but I don't care. I'm watching them! 😛

Point being, when it comes to our personal likes/dislikes it is what it is.

 

[EvilWillow]

They choose to go to school to melt into society. Anyone who had read the books would know that.

And what does the sparklyness have to do with going to school?

I have read the books, thank you. It doesn't change the fact that it's ridiculous.

Sparkling has nothing to do with going to school, just trying to emphasize the absurdity of sparkly vamps.

You have your opinions of Twilight, and I have mine.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I have read the books, thank you. It doesn't change the fact that it's ridiculous.

Sparkling has nothing to do with going to school, just trying to emphasize the absurdity of sparkly vamps.

You have your opinions of Twilight, and I have mine.

And that is perfectly fine. Gods knows i have complaints about almost every work of fiction i've heard or seen. It's your opinion about us fans that bother me.

 

[Nix]

I think everyone has to accept that we all have our opinions and views on Vampire novels/tv shows but we should respect others and not slate each other by name calling and being rude. Just my opinion on this thread.

 

[EvilWillow]

And that is perfectly fine. Gods knows i have complaints about almost every work of fiction i've heard or seen. It's your opinion about us fans that bother me.

The majority of Twilight fans are a bunch of squealing teenage girls that probably haven't read the books, and are only interested in the eye candy on the movie screen. Forgive me, if that makes me roll my eyes. I have no qualms with anyone liking Twilight for its literary appeals, but I personally, have nothing but contempt for the "oooh jacob" and "ooh edward"s. I also think it sends a bad message about relationships to young impressionable girls, i.e. it's okay to try to kill yourself if a guy breaks up with you.

I could go on, but I feel this point is kind of moot.

 

[Taake]

I'm going to reiterate the point Nix just made - everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but they're also entitled to having that opinion respected. There's no need to belittle fans/each other for things we disagree about. So everyone please try to express your opinions without disrespecting other members or the thread will have to be closed.

Thank you
🙂

 

[Flannen]

When in my post did I say that Buffy is the best show ever? I'm just saying it's very good, and it's true.
About the trend, as I said, how can you trust that a show is good if you don't know if people watch it because it's good or because everybody else watches it? You've seen many trends before, not only on tv, even fashion trends. Some are really ugly, yet they're trendy. But that doesn't mean they're good, right?
Buffy was never a trend, so it can't hide behind that. Truth is, we have a vampires trend today. And I'm guessing that if Twilight and vampires weren't so trendy, many wouldn't have watched it. Or at least it wouldn't be as popular, it would have been just another movie and no one would have talked about it so much. Doesn't matter if it's good or not. It wouldn't have been this popular if all of your friends (not yours, just in general) didn't watch it. It's a human tendency to try things because others do. That doesn't mean it's good, just like it doesn't mean it's bad.

All I was trying to get at, is that you could basically say the same about every TV show. You could lump them in with any trend and being worried that people are only watching it because of that, would stop you watch any show. The only thing you can do to find out is to watch it and make your own choice and see if it's your thing or not. I guess I'm not entirely on board with there being a vampire "trend" which is maybe why I have the viewpoint that I do, who knows? Also, I apologise if you thought I was putting words in your mouth by suggesting you'd said Buffy was the best show, or whatever, it wasn't what I had intended to say so sorry if it came across that way.

Either way, to save this from going somewhere daft, I'm on the agree to disagree bandwagon 🙂

 

[Dagenspear]

I have read the books, thank you. It doesn't change the fact that it's ridiculous.

Sparkling has nothing to do with going to school, just trying to emphasize the absurdity of sparkly vamps.

The only absurdity happening here is you calling TWILIGHT's sparkling vampires absurd, when BUFFY could be regarded similarly for the the fact that vampires randomly burn and turn to dust in sunlight for really no apparent reason.

 

[EvilWillow]

The only absurdity happening here is you calling TWILIGHT's sparkling vampires absurd, when BUFFY could be regarded similarly for the the fact that vampires randomly burn and turn to dust in sunlight for really no apparent reason.

But that's the way the tales of vampires have always been. Fire, sunlight, decapitation,and a stake through the heart have always been there way of dying. They burn in sunlight because they are dead.They are creatures of the night, not creatures from a glitter parade.

 

[arabella]

I'm highly amused that what seems to make twilight absurd and therefore not enjoyable to some is the appearance of the mythological creatures. Personally, I think that it's not any more or less absurd than any other representation of a mythological creature. Sparkly or not, it's a reanimated corpse that stars in a teen drama. It's fiction. It's allowed to be creative and absurd.

Now, I don't know about anyone else's 90s experience, but I remember people trash talking Buffy because it was a stupid teen drama with vampires. And it was often pointed out to me that the premise was absurd... I mean, 1 girl vs lots of vampires, why don't they gang up on her and kill her. But it's fiction. It can be absurd and still enjoyable if it suits you.

Personally, I'm not bothered that many people call twilight and vampire diaries non-sense since people have been calling Buffy non-sense to me since it came out while I was in high school. It is. And I love them all. Some people don't. It's cool. It doesn't bug me. Compare away, it doesn't alter my view of the shows. Plenty of hate exists for Buffy that has nothing to do with comparing it to twilight.

Lastly, popular doesn't make something good or bad...

 

[Washburne]

Good point. Which criteria is used to devide what's better? I prefer watching 'american dad, over 'lie to me' but i know which show that has bettr writing, three dimensional characters, better soundtrack, etc etc.

Glad to see someone agreeing with that. I've found it very difficult to get others tp see things that way.

Better to passionately stand by your view than to tolerate other people's, as such tolerance is condescending.

Different indeed. I see some of his point but to me he takes it too far as I mentioned earlier. Things aren't either black or white. Each to their own. To what I quoted I can just say: Hello violence and war.

Not exactly the same but I saw this on Twitter and I totally agree.Humankind should be evolved enough to know you can be proud of your race without hating on others. Just change the word race with what you want and use like/love instead of proud when it suits.

---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 PM ----------

On the subject of comparing shows. To me Buffy isn't a show about vampires. Even if it got vampire in the title. It's a show I like that happens to have vampires in it. I've never been a fan of vampires. So I wouldn't compare it with other "vampire" shows. The greatness of Buffy to me has absolutely nothing to do with how vampires are described.