"It is never over!" - All of the ways that B/A continued past Season 3

Another one is in AtS s2, when Angel goes to see the schwammy (no idea how to spell that) and Angel talks about Darla & then the fake schwammy tells him (this will be paraphrased)
"Look here is what you do, go out find yourself a cute little blonde make her fall in love with you, bed her, and then treat her real bad." And Angel just has this look on his face that's like yep I already did that.
Idk how much this fits in this thread, but it is a call back to Bangel- even if it was sorta more of a call back to Bangelus
 
EarthLogic
EarthLogic
Lol, it's actually 'swami'
Sorry if I missed it in the many examples.

But there's BTVS Chosen, which continued from the previous episode.

Buffy's face just lights up when she sees Angel again. They're so happy to be together again. Caleb isn't quitting so easy and Buddy wants to handle him herself. So Angel steps back to admire her with a big grin as she fights, saying he missed watching it. Then there was Buffy wanting to just stand and bask with Angel for a min. before they got down to any business.

Buffy had feelings for Spike and had spent time building a more genuine non-sex-crazed relationship with him. But she outright tells Angel she sometimes thinks far ahead about her future, and that when she's done baking, she could see herself with him.

Honestly, I hate them not getting together, but I thought it was adorable the way Angel pouts and says he was a vampire with a soul first before it was a cool new thing to do. He's so serious, and I like when he sometimes lets out his dorky or childish side. But that's cute in small occasional doses, he doesn't need to be a clown. lol
 
MarieVampSlayer said:
Super simple but Angel saying Buffy in his utopia dream in ATS season 4 was always super important to me. Even in his fake sex with Cordy, in the end he always thinks about Buffy!
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I have never liked this moment. First of all I find that extremely direspectful toward the character of Cordy and the Cangel fans. And secondly, it make Angel a bit mean. I mean what he did is like sleeping with a girl while thinking of another girl IRL, that's kinda not respectful.
 
Antho said:
I have never liked this moment. First of all I find that extremely direspectful toward the character of Cordy and the Cangel fans. And secondly, it make Angel a bit mean. I mean what he did is like sleeping with a girl while thinking of another girl IRL, that's kinda not respectful.
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I can forgive him because it was a dream and not a very realistic one. I guess I'm too much of a Bangel to care for Cangel but I can understand that it was a little weird for them to add her name at the last minute. I never really got the writer intend with this!
 
Antho said:
I have never liked this moment. First of all I find that extremely direspectful toward the character of Cordy and the Cangel fans. And secondly, it make Angel a bit mean. I mean what he did is like sleeping with a girl while thinking of another girl IRL, that's kinda not respectful.
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I'm not sure if Angel should get any blame here. For one, all these fantasies were concocted by the shaman. And they were all designed with one specific end goal in mind, for Angel to achieve peace of mind and soul (aka perfect happiness). The expressed purpose is to conjure up those feelings, to replicate them, so of course they had to be brought forth. Whether Angel thinks of Buffy in that moment or the shaman influenced him that way doesn't really matter. I wouldn't blame anyone who is being influenced by magic for what happens when said magic works it's mojo on them. The shaman drove the fantasy bus, not Angel.
 
Antho said:
I have never liked this moment. First of all I find that extremely direspectful toward the character of Cordy and the Cangel fans. And secondly, it make Angel a bit mean. I mean what he did is like sleeping with a girl while thinking of another girl IRL, that's kinda not respectful.
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I never saw this moment to mean that Angel was thinking of Buffy while sleeping with Cordy or as it being disrespectful towards Cangel shippers. I always thought that Angel saying Buffy's name was more a call-back/PTSD-esque moment of Angel remembering the feeling of losing his soul and him associating that moment with Buffy.
 
RachM said:
I never saw this moment to mean that Angel was thinking of Buffy while sleeping with Cordy or as it being disrespectful towards Cangel shippers. I always thought that Angel saying Buffy's name was more a call-back/PTSD-esque moment of Angel remembering the feeling of losing his soul and him associating that moment with Buffy.
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I was listening to a podcast about this episode the other day and they girls were talking about how this should be the episode that Cangels have, their pinnacle episode. It should be what IWRY is to Bangel. But they were commenting how that it is ruined by, among other things, the fact that he says Buffy's name at the end of their big moment together. I think regardless of his reason for saying the name, if I was a supporter of that ship (obviously I am not...) I would be very annoyed that her name was anywhere near that moment. So it does feel a little like his saying her name was done on purpose and with some intent to very specifically tell the viewers that Buffy was not far from his mind (for whatever reason). If he was just recalling the time he lost his soul there are many things he could have said: "Oh god" "my soul" "Not again." - He thought he was losing his soul with Darla and he didn't say "Buffy" then. So if I was a Cangel shipper that sure would have pissed me off. But by that time the writing was on the wall that the ship was imploding right? I mean she sleeps with Connor (we don't know at the time that it isn't Cordy) so it's not looking like HEA for them anyway.
 
thetopher
thetopher
Good point about the 'near miss' with Darla
dcai0830 said:
I was listening to a podcast about this episode the other day and they girls were talking about how this should be the episode that Cangels have, their pinnacle episode. It should be what IWRY is to Bangel. But they were commenting how that it is ruined by, among other things, the fact that he says Buffy's name at the end of their big moment together. I think regardless of his reason for saying the name, if I was a supporter of that ship (obviously I am not...) I would be very annoyed that her name was anywhere near that moment. So it does feel a little like his saying her name was done on purpose and with some intent to very specifically tell the viewers that Buffy was not far from his mind (for whatever reason). If he was just recalling the time he lost his soul there are many things he could have said: "Oh god" "my soul" "Not again." - He thought he was losing his soul with Darla and he didn't say "Buffy" then. So if I was a Cangel shipper that sure would have pissed me off. But by that time the writing was on the wall that the ship was imploding right? I mean she sleeps with Connor (we don't know at the time that it isn't Cordy) so it's not looking like HEA for them anyway.
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I definitely get this but I still think that it wasn't meant to be a Bangel shout out (I also personally don't believe that he thought he was losing his soul with Darla so, for me at least, that explains why he doesn't utter Buffy's name in that instance).

It's always been very clear that Angel associates losing his soul very closely with Buffy, this is why he left her at the end of BtVS Season 3 and why he is so terrified of being with her in any sense. Losing his soul was obviously very traumatic for him and so going through it again would bring up all those feelings associated with it, the first and foremost of which is Buffy.

This is, of course, just my interpretation, but any other explanation seems incredibly callous to me, so I like to go with my take, which I think does make sense/fit with Angel's character.
 
dcai0830 said:
I was listening to a podcast about this episode the other day and they girls were talking about how this should be the episode that Cangels have, their pinnacle episode. It should be what IWRY is to Bangel. But they were commenting how that it is ruined by, among other things, the fact that he says Buffy's name at the end of their big moment together. I think regardless of his reason for saying the name, if I was a supporter of that ship (obviously I am not...) I would be very annoyed that her name was anywhere near that moment. So it does feel a little like his saying her name was done on purpose and with some intent to very specifically tell the viewers that Buffy was not far from his mind (for whatever reason). If he was just recalling the time he lost his soul there are many things he could have said: "Oh god" "my soul" "Not again." - He thought he was losing his soul with Darla and he didn't say "Buffy" then. So if I was a Cangel shipper that sure would have pissed me off. But by that time the writing was on the wall that the ship was imploding right? I mean she sleeps with Connor (we don't know at the time that it isn't Cordy) so it's not looking like HEA for them anyway.
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Why would one, as a Cangel shipper, want a fantasy episode to be THE episode for the couple? That just doesn't compute for me. A fantasy induced by a magical being who uses Angel's subconscious yearnings or whatever to achieve a specific goal. Who on earth wants that for the ship they support? I figure most people would want something real in the real world to be THE episode/thing. Because it would be real and it would actually count and more importantly it would be real for both of them.
 
RomanticSoul said:
Why would one, as a Cangel shipper, want a fantasy episode to be THE episode for the couple? That just doesn't compute for me. A fantasy induced by a magical being who uses Angel's subconscious yearnings or whatever to achieve a specific goal. Who on earth wants that for the ship they support? I figure most people would want something real in the real world to be THE episode/thing. Because it would be real and it would actually count and more importantly it would be real for both of them.
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Well you take what you can get, they never really get any real intimacy so this episode is the only time they get to see their pairing truly together in any compacity. WitW is the closest thing to the real thing, but you have the whole "possessed by ghosts" angle. So I can see why someone who had been waiting and waiting for them to get together would get to this episode and would at least be happy to see them together and then subsequently bummed to hear him say Buffy's name at all.

I do enjoy seeing Buffy and Angel's dream moments even if they aren't real. My favorite sex scene between Buffy and Angel is the Amends sex scene and that is a dream sequence! Although at least that one is a shared dream?
 
dcai0830 said:
Well you take what you can get, they never really get any real intimacy so this episode is the only time they get to see their pairing truly together in any compacity. WitW is the closest thing to the real thing, but you have the whole "possessed by ghosts" angle. So I can see why someone who had been waiting and waiting for them to get together would get to this episode and would at least be happy to see them together and then subsequently bummed to hear him say Buffy's name at all
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But it's no different than WitW IMO. Because in neither event is it the two of them together. And I take reality over fantasy any time because only the former counts. It's a fantasy induced space where the shaman conjures up things from Angel's subconscious in order to achieve soul loss. The problem with that is two fold. How much influence does the shaman have there (he could have forced Angel to flash back to Buffy to relive the soul loss hence Angel saying her name because he is back in 'Surprise') and Angel's subconscious itself. Which is a muddled place and any person has varying and conflicting things going on inside of them all the time.

I do enjoy seeing Buffy and Angel's dream moments even if they aren't real. My favorite sex scene between Buffy and Angel is the Amends sex scene and that is a dream sequence! Although at least that one is a shared dream?
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At least it's a shared dream. And even there it's influenced by The First/Bringers, hence Angel vamping out and killing Buffy. But if it were Cordy/Angel sharing a dream with no outside influence, then I could understand being pissed at Buffy's name being tossed in. Because then at least I could understand someone being angry as a shared dream would be a safe place for the 2 characters just to be themselves and be together without anyone else breaking up the moment (like co-workers), a monster needing to be killed or an apocalypse getting in the way. But 'Awakening' wasn't anywhere near that kind of scenario.
 
Mrs Gordo
Mrs Gordo
I agree with all of this not sure how I ended up taking a position I don't even hold? lol.
Maybe I was not very clear on my thought. It's not like I blame Angel, like you said it was a dream and to tell you everything I think it's not in character to say something like that in a situation like that. And I'm not even a Cangel shipper so doesn't enter in my opinion. It's the thing in itself that I can't understand, no matter the characters involved. If Buffy would have said "Angel" while she was sleeping with Riley, I would also have find that direspectful and not in character, no matter the circumstances. That's inapropriate for me, no matter the situation. And I know, in Angel's case, the writers did that like a call of the time he lose his soul with Buffy, but I think there are thousand other way they could have done that, and probably better way. In the end, it's just very bad writing for me !
 
I feel like the writers through in the Buffy call out because the writers originally wanted SMG for this. Idk the details of why it didn't work out to have her for the dream sequences, but it didn't.
So therefore, they had to go with second best- by having Angel have a perfect day of saving his son & Cordy and feeling like a family.
Then he and Cordy get down to business and he calls out Buffy's name.
Honestly, I think it's important that he says her name. It has been highly emphasized by both shows that Buffy is the reason Angel can lose his soul because Buffy is his pure happiness. Even Wesley, says this "Do you know how rare that is, true happiness?" I don't think Cordy could invoke this, especially after Angel knowing she slept with his son (he doesn't know it's not her).
Honestly, I think it would have been way more of an insult to Bangel, Angel, and the shows to have him not reference Buffy since they could not get SMG herself.
Cangel wasn't really even a real ship, so personally, I do not consider it disrespectful or insulting to a ship that didn't really exist.
 
I have just remember something. In the french version, Angel says absolutely nothing. That's why I was surprised the first time I have watched this episode in English. Apparently the traductors were agreed on the fact it was so terrible writing that they didn't even do theirs job, they did not even bother to translate it, perhaps they thought it was a mistake of the producers. It's actually one of the few things the french version did right lol
 
Antho said:
I have just remember something. In the french version, Angel says absolutely nothing. That's why I was surprised the first time I have watched this episode in English. Apparently the traductors were agreed on the fact it was so terrible writing that they didn't even do theirs job, they did not even bother to translate it, perhaps they thought it was a mistake of the producers. It's actually one of the few things the french version did right lol
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I find this very surprising. Is this on the French DVDs? It seems like a pretty significant change. Also they don’t even need to translate the name. That seems like a weird thing to do.
 
dcai0830 said:
I find this very surprising. Is this on the French DVDs? It seems like a pretty significant change. Also they don’t even need to translate the name. That seems like a weird thing to do.
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Oops. I have just saw the scene again and in fact Angel effectively says Buffy even in the french version. 😳😳 I just didn't remember it at all. What about we act like I have never said anything ? 😛
 
BuffyBot22 said:
I feel like the writers through in the Buffy call out because the writers originally wanted SMG for this. Idk the details of why it didn't work out to have her for the dream sequences, but it didn't.
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I think that was the plan. But you know, different networks. If AtS is only allowed to use the name 'Buffy' like 3 times a Season, the WB sure as hell wouldn't allow Buffy herself to be on the show.
 
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