Joe Paterno Fired
- Thread starter Buffy Summers
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ticonderouga
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Paterno definitely should have done more, the absolute least that he should have done was fire Sandusky the moment he learned of the incidents, and reported them to the police. I lost a lot of respect for Joe Paterno over the last few days, and he definitely needed to go. The university president should be fired, and prosecuted.
FaithsFollower
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Sandusky was not a coach at the time Paterno learned of the incident. That was in 2002 and Sandusky had retired in 1999.
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Z
zobothehobo
arabella's rep made me look at your status... and TAYLOR! :)
I think that Paterno made a really poor judgment call in not following up that appropriate action had been taken in reporting what he learned to law enforcement. Should he have been fired? I don't know...it seems like that was the only move the public supported so any other outcome would've brought more bad press to Penn State.
It is unfortunate that this bad decision ended Paterno's college coaching career a few months early and I hope that this does not overshadow his career. It was a really bad decision but I do not think it should define him as a coach or person.
It is unfortunate that this bad decision ended Paterno's college coaching career a few months early and I hope that this does not overshadow his career. It was a really bad decision but I do not think it should define him as a coach or person.
brinkster130
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patriot1123
... in a tutu. Pillock.
Yes, he most certainly should have been fired, and possibly even prosecuted.
Everyone involved in this thing was complicit in covering up the RAPE of a CHILD. Let's not sugar-coat it by calling it sexual assault or even molestation. This was rape. Paterno protected his program, his job, and his income at the expense of that child and all the children who were raped or otherwise molested by Scumdusky after that (including, likely, a great many we don't know about).
And don't get me started on McQueary. Why the hell didn't he step in there and stop Scumdusky from doing what he was doing? Protect the child? Or, if he was too chickenspit to do that, at least call the police on the spot. Or at all! Why does he still have a job?
This whole thing is foul, and nauseating.
My heart goes out to the victims, and their parents.
And I have nothing but contempt for the protestors last night. They should all be required to read the absolutely abhorrent grand jury report.
/rant mode off
Everyone involved in this thing was complicit in covering up the RAPE of a CHILD. Let's not sugar-coat it by calling it sexual assault or even molestation. This was rape. Paterno protected his program, his job, and his income at the expense of that child and all the children who were raped or otherwise molested by Scumdusky after that (including, likely, a great many we don't know about).
And don't get me started on McQueary. Why the hell didn't he step in there and stop Scumdusky from doing what he was doing? Protect the child? Or, if he was too chickenspit to do that, at least call the police on the spot. Or at all! Why does he still have a job?
This whole thing is foul, and nauseating.
My heart goes out to the victims, and their parents.
And I have nothing but contempt for the protestors last night. They should all be required to read the absolutely abhorrent grand jury report.
/rant mode off
Goby
Brb, shipping Snoyce
I agree with you 100%. I believe you practice criminal law, and I practice family law. We both know the horrors of sexual abuse.
I want to rant on the term "molest." I hate it. Absolutely hate it, and have for years. Molest is such a "nice" word. It should be outlawed.
The term is RAPE. And Joe did nothing to prevent the further rape of children. It is so rare for a pedophile to have just one victim during their life. It just never happens. Joe should have known that. Joe should have done more. There are children who were molested because of Joe.
NY State of Mind
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BuffyElevated
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ticonderouga
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brinkster130
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zobothehobo
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Deus Ex Machina
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I swore when I read the timeline given on cnn's website that Sandusky's first accusation arose in 1994 and Paterno did hear about that? I'll have to look it up again.
edit: Ah, I see the first incident happened in 1994, but Sandusky hadn't been reported.
It's a 2002 incident that a now-assistant coach (WR's I think) witnessed and told Paterno about, which Paterno then told school authorities about.
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patriot1123
... in a tutu. Pillock.
No, I mostly practice labor and employment law. But I had some involvement in one of the Catholic church lawsuits, and it infuriated me how cavalier the enablers are about the victims. And, of course, like a lot of us here, I'm a parent. This situation is abhorrent.
brinkster130
Riley's BFF
Paterno could have and should have done more. Going to school officials and telling them about what he had heard was a good first step, but once they decided not to take action he should have. Clearly, he and several other people had some serious moral lapses; and unfortunately it was children who suffered the consequences.
Whether he deserved to be fired or not; it's understandable why he was. It's unfortunate his career is ending this way.
To be honest, I'm kind of disappointed that McQueary hasn't been fired. How the Board of Trustees can fire the people who heard about the incident and do nothing to the one person who actually witnessed it baffles me.
Whether he deserved to be fired or not; it's understandable why he was. It's unfortunate his career is ending this way.
To be honest, I'm kind of disappointed that McQueary hasn't been fired. How the Board of Trustees can fire the people who heard about the incident and do nothing to the one person who actually witnessed it baffles me.
I don't understand how they can fire Paterno and NOT McQueary.
brinkster130
Same here; makes zero sense. My guess is McQueary will eventually end up being fired.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
Anyone who knows about a child being raped and doesn't report it is just as guilty as the person who committed the sick, evil crime. Joe Paterno definitely should have been fired, and I think he needs to do some jail time as well.
Okay, I'm going to say this, with the caveat that no one in this world hates Joe Paterno more than I do, but...
...I can sort of see how that whole thing went down. Imagine someone tells you that someone you've known for twenty years, a good friend of yours, has abused a child. Let's face it, you're probably not going to believe it. You're not going to go to the police, because a) you didn't witness it and b) you don't believe it's true. So you report it to someone in a higher position, thinking they will find out whether it's true or not and do the right thing.
Based on that...I suspect they would have a difficult time convicting Paterno of anything.
McQueary, however, SHOULD have reported what he saw to the police, being an eye witness. That man should face some sort of legal action. As well as the university who ignored it (though at least two former university official I believe are under indictment already).
...I can sort of see how that whole thing went down. Imagine someone tells you that someone you've known for twenty years, a good friend of yours, has abused a child. Let's face it, you're probably not going to believe it. You're not going to go to the police, because a) you didn't witness it and b) you don't believe it's true. So you report it to someone in a higher position, thinking they will find out whether it's true or not and do the right thing.
Based on that...I suspect they would have a difficult time convicting Paterno of anything.
McQueary, however, SHOULD have reported what he saw to the police, being an eye witness. That man should face some sort of legal action. As well as the university who ignored it (though at least two former university official I believe are under indictment already).
brinkster130
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NY State of Mind
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Paterno reported it to individual's of higher authority than him, which is the appropriate protocol for hearing information like that so it isn't fair to say that he did nothing. My issue, as someone that has had to make many an abuse report, is that you always follow up to make sure that the information was reported to legal authority. McQueary should have then called the abuse hotline with his supervisor (Paterno) and Paterno's supervisor and probably HR. McQueary, as the eye witness, was ultimately responsible for calling the abuse hotline. Paterno and his supervisor should've ensured that he was advised to do so and that it was done. That is the appropriate protocol for this situation. I'm neither a Penn St nor Paterno fan, but I can understand how this happened and this seems like a lack of supervisor competency issue to me. Clearly they (and any agency that works with children)need to review their mandated reporter training and protocol to ensure that this does not happen again.
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Me either. That seems logical. He witnessed abuse and failed to report it to legal authority. That's a lot different to me than hearing about alleged abuse and only reporting it to a supervisor.
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Me either. That seems logical. He witnessed abuse and failed to report it to legal authority. That's a lot different to me than hearing about alleged abuse and only reporting it to a supervisor.
brinkster130
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patriot1123
... in a tutu. Pillock.
I said the same thing; but on further reflection, it's more complicated than it seems at first. For PSU to fire McQueary for not going to the police, when they didn't go to the police either, is problematic because it suggests retaliation against McQueary for being a whistleblower. They're in kind of a dilemma when it comes to McQueary.
brinkster130
Riley's BFF
But that is exaclty what they fired Paterno for. I don't understand why only one of them is being held to a higher standard.
Plus, McQueary was an eye witness to the event, Paterno was not. Shouldn't that make McQueary more obligated to contact leagal authorities?
Yes. From my experience in making abuse reports, the person who witnessed or who was told by the child or parent about the abuse is the one responsible for making the report because he or she has the first hand information. By the time Paterno and supervisors get the information it is alleged not observed abuse. They could've made the report as well but the report is more likely to be investigated if it is given by the eye witness or first informed mandated reporter. Please don't misunderstand that I don't think Paterno and his supervisor didn't drop the ball, they did. They should've sat with McQueary while he called in the abuse report immediately.
Goby
Brb, shipping Snoyce
In California, "responsible" means they must go to the police and make a report or they can be charged with a misdemeanor. Many people, including teachers, must report. I'm wondering if the coaches were technically teachers, and if PA has such a law. Also, there is probably a statute of limitations problem.
I only know the mandated reporting laws in GA and FL so I can't say, but as far as the statute of limitations that's your area too, my lawyer friend.
As to whether or not they were mandated reporters, likely yes. At least in GA, individuals that work with children (even in church camps and most recreational camps I know of) have to complete some sort of mandated reporter training. It isn't safe to assume that the university had such a policy about their coaches and professors that work with children in camps, but they should and I'd hope if nothing else comes out of this that they will complete the training in the future.
patriot1123
... in a tutu. Pillock.
At least in Arizona, there is no statute of limitations for a variety of sexual crimes against children. Since that makes sense from a policy standpoint, I'd guess the same is true in Pennsylvania.
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I hear you, and I don't think I've finished sorting through all the issues. I do believe that there is some sense in which McQueary's status as a whistleblower, and his status as the (anticipated) star witness for the prosecution, have given him some measure of protection in his job that Paterno lacked.
I need to keep thinking this through. But IMO the issue whether he should be fired (yes) and the issue why he hasn't been fired are distinct.