Joss' Favorite Buffy Episode - Innocence?

So Joss got the idea for the spin-off while watching Angelus being all girl-ish? That explains Angel's wardrobe later on and Spike's line "Except that one time"...
 
I agree with a lot of people it is a turning point I really enjoyed watching the rest of the season play out after this.
Yes I do think like everyone else that Sarah and David were amazing especially when he was being so cruel.
Plus the scene between Giles and Buffy was my one of my favorites.
Do I think it is the best episode no but it is in the top.
 
A turning point in the series but imo this episode is eclipsed by quite a few episodes, Becoming Pt2, The Gift, Hush, OMWF, The Body.. to name a few. I'm actually kind of surprised, I would have thought the musical would be the most fun to write/direct, or even Hush.
 
It's been illustrated time and again that Joss loves to take a perfectly good loving relationship and toss a very painful, even sometimes fatal, monkey wrench right into the middle of it. Almost as much, or maybe even more, he seems to love the "Where the heck did THAT come from!?" scenes in unexpectedly. This particular episode chronicles the destruction of the relationship that fans had come to accept as THE ONE for the whole series. Buffy had no choice, from that moment on, regardless of whatever happened later, but to destroy the monster Angelus, even at the cost of her first love, Angel. Even with his return the next season, Angel and Buffy's relationship would never, EVER be the same again. Her friends would never, ever, completely trust him, or Buffy's judgment in matters concerning him again.

As I've said before, I would be very surprised if Joss were not a fan of the great Edgar Allen Poe, who believed that no relationship could ever reach it's full potential, could never reach its most memorable state, until great tragedy, preferably the death of one of the principals, was included.

This episode destroyed the sunshine, lollipops, and roses of the Bangel relationship and replaced it with something dark, painful, and pretty much forbidden. Whenever Buffy and Angel reunite, tragedy results.
 
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kndizzle
It's true. Though I would say the real turning point for her realizing she had to destroy him was in Passion, before then he was just sort of an a-hole who looked like "her" Angel. Agreed though. :)
Just watching this episode again and it grips you throughout. There's so many brillant scenes aswell. Buffy sobbing her heart out at home is portrayed wonderfully by SMG, Angelus being so utterly evil sees David Boreanaz coming into his own and finally taking centre stage.

Other memorable moments include Buffy attacking Jenny, the look on Giles face when he realises that Buffy triggered Angel losing his soul. Then after all the heartache and all the moments which are difficult to watch you get the uplifting moment where Giles says he'll only offer his support to Buffy. The way Giles tells Jenny to go away after Buffy requested her too is another great moment.
 
dan k said:
Just watching this episode again and it grips you throughout. There's so many brillant scenes aswell. Buffy sobbing her heart out at home is portrayed wonderfully by SMG, Angelus being so utterly evil sees David Boreanaz coming into his own and finally taking centre stage.

Other memorable moments include Buffy attacking Jenny, the look on Giles face when he realises that Buffy triggered Angel losing his soul. Then after all the heartache and all the moments which are difficult to watch you get the uplifting moment where Giles says he'll only offer his support to Buffy. The way Giles tells Jenny to go away after Buffy requested her too is another great moment.
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All of these are really touching moments.

For me personally, while I agree that there are many other episodes just as good, if not better than this one, even in this season alone -- Passion, Becoming, etc. -- Innocence really is just The One that changed it up. This was the episode where Buffy's innocence was fully exploited for all that it was worth and it was really really painful to watch, unlike any other episode before it. I like showing this one to people watching for the first time as well, because it really personifies the show in the sense of how Buffy ends up defeating the Judge, being resourceful and all, and yet still being a relatable teenage girl with other, gripping problems.
 
So, I was watching one of the Season 7 Featurettes, and Joss says that "Innocence" is his all-time favorite episode ever and what he thinks was the best. This surprised me. Sure, it's a great episode, but it's not my favorite.

Thoughts? Agree or Disagree?
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Hmmmm . . . really? "Innocence"? I'm going to have to disagree with that choice. I found the whole revelation of Angel becoming Angelus rather anti-climatic and disappointing for my tastes. And really . . . a rocket launcher? Jeez!
 
LadyLavinia said:
Hmmmm . . . really? "Innocence"? I'm going to have to disagree with that choice. I found the whole revelation of Angel becoming Angelus rather anti-climatic and disappointing for my tastes. And really . . . a rocket launcher? Jeez!
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I think Angelus was a great character. Angel is great, but Angelus was a reač refreshment, and DB showed his acting skills.
Also, a rocket launcher was a great touch.. like a cherry on the top.
 
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dan k
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I like the rocket launcher because it's something no one saw coming, and it was a nice metaphor for how new, out-of-the-box ideas could blow even the most inevitable-sounding ancient demon things to smithereens. AKA, a prime example of typical Buffy kickass action at its finest.
 
BibliophileAnn
BibliophileAnn
If Angelus hadn't gotten out of the way he would have been blown up along with the judge.
I thought that it was a great episode, however, any episode that features heavy SMG kiss scenes in the earlier seasons is always a turn off. She always looked like she was full-on grinning when she made out. But, ahem, Innocence was good, and also a nice segue to Angellus.
 
MandaMeena said:
I thought that it was a great episode, however, any episode that features heavy SMG kiss scenes in the earlier seasons is always a turn off. She always looked like she was full-on grinning when she made out. But, ahem, Innocence was good, and also a nice segue to Angellus.
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Always a turn on for me. :biggrin3:
 
As a side note, just wanted to say that I introduced my boyfriend to Buffy, and this was the first episode that made him say "Whoa." Up until this point, the episodes are kind of campy, truly entertaining but not too heavy. There are monsters and demons and hard choices, but it's very much a "bad guy of the week" type of show. This was the first time that there was REAL drama, real turmoil, a super-bad situation that was bound to end badly.
Plus, Angelus is just barrels of fun. 🙂
 
I agree, it's my favorite episode, too. But, then again Joss's entire list is pretty good. Close to what mine would be, actually.
 
I think Angelus was a great character. Angel is great, but Angelus was a reač refreshment, and DB showed his acting skills.
Also, a rocket launcher was a great touch.. like a cherry on the top.
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Yeah. A bad cherry. I'm just not a fan of this episode.
 
Innocence is not my all time favourite, that's still BBB but for the final scene between Buffy and Joyce (and I'm sure Dawn in everyone's memories) alone it's just wonderful and makes the top ten
 
Innocence is my favorite for several reasons that would take too much time to explain, I'm not even sure if I can explain it. IMO, the episode was just perfect.
 
I don't remember this exact episode, but I know it's one of those in Season Two, in which Angelus is unleashed. These were sad and violent, and I love them. Passions in the one that sticks out most clearly in my mind.
 
I love this episode. I wasn't that big a fan the first time I saw it, but I just rewatched it and it is damn good. One of the things I love is something that Joss does very well (as evidenced in OMWF) is character development. He takes an episode full of action, that couldve probably been stretched out into 2 or 3, and manages to bring up something new in almost every character. Aside from Angelus being unleashed, important things happen to everyone. In fact, I think I'll make a list:

  • Angel: Turns into Angelus. 'Nuff said. Actually, not enough said. Probably my favorite character to ever show up in the buffyverse. I don't know why, but writers seem to be at their finest when writing for Angelus, whether in buffy s2 or angel s3, he's just excellent.
  • Buffy: I think the title of the episode says it all. This is the moment in which Buffy truly begins to lose her innocence. She reached a pivotal moment in her life in the last episode (read: had sex), and now is facing the consequences of that action. Also, great acting from SMG, I don't think she topped this episode until The Body.
  • Giles: Two very important scenes involving Giles. The first is in his office, when he tells Jenny to go away, which really shows what he feels about her betrayal. The second, and probably one of the best Giles scenes in the show, is in the car with buffy. I think this is the point when Giles stops being the annoying, hardass teacher and becomes a true father figure to buffy.
  • Willow: There are two important things that happen with Willow this episode. First, she catches Xander and Cordy kissing in the library. She then has a really good dialogue with Xander, expressing what she feels for him. This is a pivotal moment in their relationship, because it shows how much Willow cares about him. She then resorts to vengeance of sorts, which I'll get to in a second.
  • Oz: Second's over. I think Oz/Willow was one of the best relationships on the show, and Seth Green is just awesome. He has a really important line this episode, which is later mirrored in Amends (season 3). Willow tries to rush their relationship to prove a point, and Oz, who really cares about Willow, expresses his feelings by abstaining. I think both in this episode and Amends Oz's actions show the strength of his character, and his conviction to making things really work with Willow. This isn't just a fling for him, he's in it for the long-term.
  • Xander: Something that I hadn't noticed the first time I saw the episode, but actually turns out to be really important: Xander has a plan! That's right ladies and gentlemen, the Zeppo, the one who usually sits around watching and cracking bad jokes, has a plan that defeats a monster that had the potential to be s2's big bad. I think this is an extremely important turning point for his character. He has an idea, makes a plan, makes it work, and in the end, they beat the bad guy because of him. This rarely happens, and I think the fact that it did here is pivotal in Xander's character development from this point on.
  • Spike: I was going to cut it off at 6, but I realized blondie-bear needs some recognition too. This is the first episode (though definitely not the last) in which we see Spike being jealous of Angel. That's right, here's where it all began.
Alright, I think I've made my point. I could also have gone into Jenny, Cordy and even Joyce's development, but I think it might have been overkill. Also, let's not forget, aside from all this character, there is also this little thing I like to call plot, which is pretty awesome in this episode too. All I'm saying is, maybe Joss wasn't so wrong to say this was his favorite episode...
 
A
AustCF
good stuff!!
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TaylorSwift
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kndizzle
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I definitely love love love it, but, I have never thought of the episode as my favorite. I don't even know if I could pick a favorite and stick with it, but that would definitely not be it. I would have to go with an episode more like Hush, or Conversations With Dead People... I don't know, there's so many, but .. yeah... no.
 
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