Joss is such a cruel person tbh

Joshua

Huge Spuffy Fan!
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Every time I watch "Passion" my heart always breaks whenever I see Giles find his beloved Jenny's dead body on his bed.

I think that's my most upsetting moment of the entire series. He's such a cruel bastard sometimes.
 
Anya2012
Anya2012
[No message]
Evil Angelus 95
Evil Angelus 95
He is. And yet we love every minute of it!
Joss' diabolical, evil, twisted nature has been a thing of common knowledge among the fandom for years now. His cruelty increases over the years like fine liquor ages. Unfortunately, there are no organizations devoted to supporting "Joss-aholics," so we're pretty well doomed.
 
Although his actions in the show are sad and hurtful, it's still good TV. 😛

I think the fact he can create such emotion is amazing, and happily ever afters are too cliche anyway. I would have loved for Jenny and Tara to live, but I wouldn't take it back because it was still genius and well-done. 🙂
 
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WWGD
[No message]
Valjavertjinn
Valjavertjinn
[No message]
At least Joss channels his diabolicalness (word?) into art and doesn't manifest it into violence and hatred in real life!!
 
X
xfivebyfive
well actually he did both to Charisma. It says alot about him tho how he destroys everyones happness.
I
InsaneMystic
everything ending with -ness or -age is a word. at least for Jossaholics. :D
Oops. Somebody posted in the Angel, season 2 section, instead of Buffy, season 2. Naughty Chosen Slayer. 😀 And yes, he is cruel, he is sadistic, and he loves laughing at our pain, but he wouldn't be Joss if it was any other way. 😛
 
Seeing Red
Seeing Red
[No message]
I dislike him so intensely, it's insane. But yet I still love his shows. Bastard. The happiest ending we've ever gotten from him, is Paul in Echo's head. Which, by the way, is REALLY, REALLY WIERD! Maybe Simon and Kaylee too. But still, it's so incredibly emotionally FRUSTRATING to watch his work! Because you just know, somewhere deep down in your gut, no matter how much you try to ignore it, that someone you love is gonna get offed, and someone else isn't gonna get their happy ending. What an evil, EVIL little man.
 
X
xfivebyfive
Sierra/Victor they got a happy ending!
I think Cruel Bastard is actually more approriate for him then Evil Genius. Yes he is a genius and yes he is evil, but he takes pleasure in being cruel. He doesn't believe in happy endings.

To me it seems like Joss is a very sadistic man, and spiteful too. So yes he is brilliant and talented and his shows are amazing. Joss as person, from what I take from his shows and what I've read and heard and seen in interviews, is not a man I like. He said on the season 2 dvd extra that part of the reason he killed off Jenny was to not only show the fans that he was willing to kill people off but to show the actors he's willing to get rid of them. And while were supposed to see that as funny, he's dead serious. That's not funny, its cruel. Thats not how you treat the people that are working for you.

And don't even get me started with how he treated Charisma. Acting like petulant child, he couldn't have things go his way so he punished her. She ruined his plans by getting pregnant so he destroyed Cordelia and fired her. I have no respect for him.

Not to mention how full of himself he is. And we his fans don't help. A lot Joss fans treat him like a god and like nothing can touch Buffy or Joss' writing. He knows he is brilliant and thinks he is above the people who produce him and above the audience he is aiming his shows for. Not an exact quote but he said that if people judged Buffy by its name they weren't worthy of the show. Excuse me but you are not a god. He can't play nice with the executives, he got Angel cancelled! And I think one of the reason he's getting more cruel is because he's bitter that he's still nothing more then a cult hit. Which you think he would be grateful about but instead he complains about how painful it is to have his shows end not the fact that he's been given several chances and had two successful shows.
 
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Willow My Love
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Selfless705
Am not sure if I agree completely, but I do on the charisma part. I found that just awful of him
I read a few days ago a sentence in BB that was something like this:
If your favorite main charcter dies in the TV-Show it's probably a Whedon-Show!
(Or something like this)
I had to smile there because it's a little bit true!
 
L
Living Dead Boy
I said that! :D But it's so true!
I don't think he means to be cruel at all. It's just good TV.

I can't tell you how hard it is to find a show, with "dangerous situations", that I'm not bored with because I know the good guys will very rarely die. And if it looks like they'll die, we all still know that they'll make it. I've just gotten spoiled, growing up with Whedon shows, so I get bored by shows that don't take enough risks.

With Whedon shows, you never know, and I love that. A death could be slow and bitter-sweet, like with Fred, it could be quick and brutal, like with Anya. We don't know what Joss will do with the characters.

And because of that, I learned to appreciate the good times on the show, because you never know when something bad will happen. They're not shows were everything will be happy all the time. And that makes it feel real. Because Dollhouse, Buffy, Angel & Firefly were shows where people are put in dangerous situations, which means that they get hurt, because anything else wouldn't make sense. That's real.

If Joss made a show about a ordinary family, in a ordinary place, yet bad things kept happening all the time, it would be different. He couldn't go to the same depths over and over again, not unless there could be a reasonable explanation.

For example; Buffy and the others lived on a Hellmouth, and they fought demons. Of course they would die, and get serious emotional and in mental problems. Them living happily ever after wouldn't work. One could argue taht death and pain happened to often on the show. I mean it doesn't have to be all or nothing. I just personally think it's just enough.

So I don't think he's sadistic. I just think he's realistic. And that he also want to explore characters. I think I've read how Joss decided to keep Spike on the show after Lover's walk(Buffy, season 3), because wasn't until then that Spike became interesting to Joss. And I see his point. Like that crazy guy said in The Train Job(i think that's the episode) in Firefly, you can't trully know someone until you hurt them, or something to that effect.

To sum up; no pain, no gain.

Maybe Joss is sadistic. Depends who you compare him too(I compare him to me, and I think I have a slight above average interest in pain). But considering the love between the characters on the show, I assume he (unless that's all from other writers) is a empathic man. Which is why he knows what to write, to get us to love the characters as well.

For example, I don't think I ever loved Fred as much as when she died. Or admired her more. And now when I do re-watches, there's always a bitter sweet feeling, knowing she will die. And I'm always afraid for the characters when they get into dangerous situations. Because I don't know what will happen. And when they're happy, I'm happy for them. Because I know it won't last.
 
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dexeded
Yes yes yes.
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caritas08
Awesome post.
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Selfless705
Happiness is so short lasted you do cherish it in Joss's shows :D
T
This Year's Girl
I love this post! :heart:
I can't tell you how hard it is to find a show, with "dangerous situations", that I'm not bored with because I know the good guys will very rarely die. And if it looks like they'll die, we all still know that they'll make it. I've just gotten spoiled, growing up with Whedon shows, so I get bored by shows that don't take enough risks.

To be fair, usually the main characters don't die. Except in the final episodes of the show. Buffy, Xander, Willow, and Giles made it through 7 years of demon fighting without dieing. Everytime Buffy was put in a "dangerous" situation, you basically knew she was going to come out of it. Same for the others of the core four. But Joss never hesitated to take out the secondary characters when he felt it relevant to the story. Jenny, Kendra, Joyce, Tara, and Anya all succumbed to this. In the final season of Angel, all of the main characters die, save Angel, but that I think is because it was the final episodes. If there was a season 6, I'm sure Wesley and Gunn would have survived the finale. And I think there was something about trying to split Illyria and Fred, so she would have come back as well. But you're right in the fact that he never hesitates to tell a story.
 
To be fair, usually the main characters don't die. Except in the final episodes of the show. Buffy, Xander, Willow, and Giles made it through 7 years of demon fighting without dieing. Everytime Buffy was put in a "dangerous" situation, you basically knew she was going to come out of it. Same for the others of the core four. But Joss never hesitated to take out the secondary characters when he felt it relevant to the story. Jenny, Kendra, Joyce, Tara, and Anya all succumbed to this. In the final season of Angel, all of the main characters die, save Angel, but that I think is because it was the final episodes. If there was a season 6, I'm sure Wesley and Gunn would have survived the finale. And I think there was something about trying to split Illyria and Fred, so she would have come back as well. But you're right in the fact that he never hesitates to tell a story.

Actually, I think after the fifth season or so, it hit me; anyone, except the title character (Joss broke the molds in many cases, but taking out the title character would probably have been suicide for the show. And not allowed by the networks) could go.

I think, that if Joss had felt that Willow or anyone else stopped being interesting, or that their death would have been better for the story more than having them alive would, I think he could have killed off a main character. He did with Doyle and Cordelia. And Fred (I'm hoping that you're wrong about them planning to bring her back, because I'm sooo tired of people coming back from the dead).
 
I feel like if Charisma didn't want to leave, Cordelia wouldn't have died. But it did make for an excellent death. I love Cordy. And I miss how she was season 2-3.
 
X
xfivebyfive
Charisma DIDNT want to leave Joss fired her
I think Joss is at his best when he's being sadistic for the hell of it. I don't necessarily mean all the deaths, but just the way he goes about some of them like Jenny's (brilliant) and when Willow's flesh was slowly ripped off in S7, is just great. Twisted and cruel, yes, but great.
 
Although his actions in the show are sad and hurtful, it's still good TV. 😛

I think the fact he can create such emotion is amazing, and happily ever afters are too cliche anyway. I would have loved for Jenny and Tara to live, but I wouldn't take it back because it was still genius and well-done. 🙂

I completely agree. His series always start off mainly composed of some very entertaining arcs and filler episodes, but he keeps it light. Then, he takes his lighthearted series and makes it crumble causing genuine emotion in fans. Joss even said that he builds up connections to characters, and has his characters go through a lot together, then he takes it and destroys it. Then, when you look at how dark the series is now you can look back and reflect more emotinally on past episodes. Evil geius is the right term, and i I really felt it in seasons 4 and 5 of Angel (which by the way were the greatest seasons of all tv in IMO)

---------- Post added at 01:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 PM ----------

I don't think he means to be cruel at all. It's just good TV.

I can't tell you how hard it is to find a show, with "dangerous situations", that I'm not bored with because I know the good guys will very rarely die. And if it looks like they'll die, we all still know that they'll make it. I've just gotten spoiled, growing up with Whedon shows, so I get bored by shows that don't take enough risks.

With Whedon shows, you never know, and I love that. A death could be slow and bitter-sweet, like with Fred, it could be quick and brutal, like with Anya. We don't know what Joss will do with the characters.

And because of that, I learned to appreciate the good times on the show, because you never know when something bad will happen. They're not shows were everything will be happy all the time. And that makes it feel real. Because Dollhouse, Buffy, Angel & Firefly were shows where people are put in dangerous situations, which means that they get hurt, because anything else wouldn't make sense. That's real.

If Joss made a show about a ordinary family, in a ordinary place, yet bad things kept happening all the time, it would be different. He couldn't go to the same depths over and over again, not unless there could be a reasonable explanation.

For example; Buffy and the others lived on a Hellmouth, and they fought demons. Of course they would die, and get serious emotional and in mental problems. Them living happily ever after wouldn't work. One could argue taht death and pain happened to often on the show. I mean it doesn't have to be all or nothing. I just personally think it's just enough.

So I don't think he's sadistic. I just think he's realistic. And that he also want to explore characters. I think I've read how Joss decided to keep Spike on the show after Lover's walk(Buffy, season 3), because wasn't until then that Spike became interesting to Joss. And I see his point. Like that crazy guy said in The Train Job(i think that's the episode) in Firefly, you can't trully know someone until you hurt them, or something to that effect.

To sum up; no pain, no gain.

Maybe Joss is sadistic. Depends who you compare him too(I compare him to me, and I think I have a slight above average interest in pain). But considering the love between the characters on the show, I assume he (unless that's all from other writers) is a empathic man. Which is why he knows what to write, to get us to love the characters as well.

For example, I don't think I ever loved Fred as much as when she died. Or admired her more. And now when I do re-watches, there's always a bitter sweet feeling, knowing she will die. And I'm always afraid for the characters when they get into dangerous situations. Because I don't know what will happen. And when they're happy, I'm happy for them. Because I know it won't last.

I think you worded this very well and I agree, annd using spikes character there is a point i never saw
 
S
Skytteflickan88
Thank you. Sometimes my posts aren't all mumbling and ranting, lol.
I more think of him as a great story teller, he does bold things, regardless of the fans reactions. Love it or hate it... we can't always get what we want, keeps us on our toes and interested 🙂
 
You're a vile one, Mr. Whedon!
You have termites in your smile.
You have all the tender sweetness
Of a seasick crocodile,
Mr. Whedon!
Given the choice between the two of you,
I'd take the seasick crocodile!

Sorry, could not resist seeing this thread here today and all. 😀
 
L
Living Dead Boy
LOL Mr. Grinch karma!
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