Joyce And The Vampires

[white avenger]

We know that Joyce and Spike were friends, but what did she feel foe Angel? I never saw that kind of friendly behavior between the two of them, If anything, Joyce seemed downright uncomfortable in the few times that they were alone together.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I think when Joyce and Spike met--after the "get the hell away from my daughter" thing--she was so confused that she reverted to her motherly instincts, and he responded to the nurturing both because he was a bit immature that way and because of his own mommy issues. She never had that sort of moment with Angel--she knew him as The Boy Who's Way Too Old For My Daughter long before she realized anything more than that was going on, and then he went crazy and she found out he had deflowered her daughter, and THEN she found out that he was a vampire. The dynamics were always different. Which I like, because I enjoyed Spike & Joyce's relationship, and if it had been the same between her and Angel, it might have lessened the nurturing she had with Spike.

 

[Tasha]

I think when Joyce and Spike met--after the "get the hell away from my daughter" thing--she was so confused that she reverted to her motherly instincts, and he responded to the nurturing both because he was a bit immature that way and because of his own mommy issues. She never had that sort of moment with Angel--she knew him as The Boy Who's Way Too Old For My Daughter long before she realized anything more than that was going on, and then he went crazy and she found out he had deflowered her daughter, and THEN she found out that he was a vampire. The dynamics were always different. Which I like, because I enjoyed Spike & Joyce's relationship, and if it had been the same between her and Angel, it might have lessened the nurturing she had with Spike.

Everything she said, let her take all the credit^

I obviously agree, every mother always thinks that any guy isn't good enough for their daughter..

LOL HA' deflowered' ;

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Joyce and Spike friends? I never saw that. I mean "Get the hell away from my daughter" wasn't that friendly, when they were siting in the living room in Becoming Part II, well that was uncomfortable because she just found out Buffy is the Slayer, and then they were talking about him when Buffy found out Spike is in love with her. Well she wasn't freaked out, but I think she wasn't ready for another "My daughter is having another undead boyfriend" scenario. Buffy interduced Angel to her as a tutor, then as a bad bad boy when he lost his soul, I think it would be better if Buffy could told her the truth about him from the begining. Next time we saw them when she comes to Angel and tell him he should break up with Buffy (not with that words, but we all heard the that masseage). I think she liked Riley only because he was an ordinary boy, and you have no idea how hard is for girl to find a boyfriend that is "ordinary" to your parents.

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

Joyce and Spike were totally friendly. I simply see it as Spike is obviously an approachable person, he talks well and can get on with anyone from Joyce to Adam. Joyce knew he wouldnt touch her as he's sacred of Buffy.
Angel on the other hand struggles with the small talk and generally being easy going and friendly. Joyce usually felt threatened by his cold presence.

 

[Professor Walsh]

If anything, Joyce seemed downright uncomfortable in the few times that they were alone together.

About as comfortable as I think my mother felt around my first boyfriend. And he was neither too old nor a vampire.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

About as comfortable as I think my mother felt around my first boyfriend. And he was neither too old nor a vampire.

I know what you mean. My mother didn't say a word, and dad had that face "If you touch her I'm going to find you and then God help me".. Thanks God it only lasted for few seconds.

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

I thought Buffy had a boyfriend before Angel? In LA.
Idk, i dont see her reaction to Angel about being her first boyfriend.

 

[Megalita]

Angel was Buff's first (?) boyfriend, the first person to take her virginity, AND a vampire. I'd be pretty shocked if I had a daughter and learned all of this information in only a short period of time. I mean, holy crap.

As for Spike, though (if my memory serves me right) Joyce never knew him as sexually/romantically involved with her daughter, I think his being a vampire was sort of buffered by the fact that, at this point, Joyce could handle it.

 

[Anya2012]

It is obvious Spike LIKED and respected Joyce. He could have killed her...but never did.

 

[Professor Walsh]

If Joss hadn't gone with the whole sex=nastyness story line, I think we could have seen Joyce warming up to Angel over time. As things played out, I don't ever think Joyce could quite move past Angel being the one who changed and hurt Buffy badly. It's easier, I think, to learn to trust someone who's been bad and then seems to have found a better way, than someone who's been good, then unpredictably bad, then good again.

JOYCE: Okay. What's wrong?

BUFFY: It's nothing.

JOYCE: Come on. You can tell me anything. I've read all the parenting books. You cannot surprise me.

BUFFY: Do you remember that guy Angel?

JOYCE: Angel, the, um... the college boy who was tutoring you in history?

BUFFY: Right. Uh, he... I-I... Oh, God. Um... We're sort of dating, *were* dating, um, going through a serious off-again phase right now.

JOYCE: Don't tell me. He's changed. He's not the same guy you fell for?

BUFFY: In a nutshell. A-anyway, um... since he changed, he's been kinda following me around. He's having trouble letting go.

JOYCE: Buffy, has he done anything...

BUFFY: No! No, it's not like that. He's just been hanging around... a lot. Just sending me notes, that kind of thing. I just don't wanna see him right now. I mean, if he shows up, I'll talk to him. Just... don't invite him in.

 

[Flannen]

While, I agree that Spike and Joyce were friends where Angel and Joyce certainly weren't, I do think that Joyce, by the end, had a lot of respect for Angel.

She would never have dared to go and see him and approach him about her concerns about Buffy and how her life would be if she stayed a part of it, if she didn't respect him. She respected him enough to know that he would understand what she had to say. I think any awkwardness that might have been perceived in this instance is to do with the subject at hand as opposed to Joyce disliking Angel in any way.

I also think it has something to do with Angel and Spike themselves. Angel seemed the type to stumble over his words and worry too much about what Joyce might think, but this was never a problem for Spike.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I always kinda thought her weirdness with Angel stemmed from the fact that she knew he had banged her daughter. What mom isn't gonna feel weird around some dude who's WAYYYY older and having sex with their child who is still underage? 😉
She never knew the extent of Spike's and Buffy's relationship. She knew he was dangerous and a vamp, but she never got to be around for the Spuffy Sexathon. So maybe she just felt more civil towards him because of that.

 

[Flannen]

I always kinda thought her weirdness with Angel stemmed from the fact that she knew he had banged her daughter. What mom isn't gonna feel weird around some dude who's WAYYYY older and having sex with their child who is still underage? 😉
She never knew the extent of Spike's and Buffy's relationship. She knew he was dangerous and a vamp, but she never got to be around for the Spuffy Sexathon. So maybe she just felt more civil towards him because of that.

Yeah, I do think was a factor but I do think she did have a respect for Angel.

And, this may be my mind playing tricks on me, but she was a bit concerned post 'Crush' wasn't she? I might have made that up, been a long time since I saw any eps from around then.

 

[white avenger]

Spike was definitely more charming and outgoing than Angel, and probably better educated, more articulate, funnier, and in general just more fun to be around than Angel. No competition whatsoever. But we have to remember that, not only was Angel taller than Spike, but Buffy loved him the most, so what difference does it really make that Spike was an all around better person and vampire than Angel ever could be.

Bangel forever (or another 28 days, anyhow)

Day 2. 28 days to go.

 

[Flannen]

Spike was definitely more charming and outgoing than Angel, and probably better educated, more articulate, funnier, and in general just more fun to be around than Angel.

Better educated and more articulate?! Are you kidding me?

Although maybe to some people a battered box of chocolates is more articulate than a first edition collection of poems by Elizabeth Barrett Browning? 😛

Also, I think you need to be more convincing with these posts. 'Bangel forever' can only go so far. You need to mix it up! 😉

 

[ubi4soft]

Better educated and more articulate?! Are you kidding me?

As we seen from the flashbacks only or are you saying that Galway 1750 was more a educated environment than London 1880?

Although maybe to some people a battered box of chocolates is more articulate than a first edition collection of poems by Elizabeth Barrett Browning?

To each of his own, Spike probably stealed the chocolates and Angel found the poems while searching for rats in New York which was a good thing in the end because he also liked Spike's poems.

 

[Flannen]

As we seen from the flashbacks only or are you saying that Galway 1750 was more a educated environment than London 1880?

If the two people in question had been William and Liam then I would agree. But it's Spike and Angel we are talking about. And Angel is more articulate than Spike is. Quite a strange role reversal actually, when you think about it. Even Angelus was rather refined compared to Liam, whereas William lost all sense of propriety when he was turned and became Spike.

To each of his own, Spike probably stealed the chocolates and Angel found the poems while searching for rats in New York which was a good thing in the end because he also liked Spike's poems.

The poem collection was in pretty condition if Angel had carried it round in his pocket for twenty odd years. I think it was definitely a specific and well intended gift, post his rat hunting alley days. 🙂

 

[white avenger]

Better educated and more articulate?! Are you kidding me?

Although maybe to some people a battered box of chocolates is more articulate than a first edition collection of poems by Elizabeth Barrett Browning? 😛

Also, I think you need to be more convincing with these posts. 'Bangel forever' can only go so far. You need to mix it up! 😉

Being the illiterate son of an Irish farmer is nothing to be ashamed of. No doubt if Liam's father had had more pride in his only son, he would have insisted that he put forth the effort to go to school so that he could have been just as useful and supportive of his family as William ever was, and certainly his vocabulary would have improved. He might have even tried his hand at writing poetry. Obviously, Buffy saw through the rough edges, not to mention the spiffy velvet blazer and the strange hair, to the troubled, tortured soul beneath it all, because she loved Angel more than she could ever love Spike. And when you really get down to it, that's what's really important.

Day 2. 28 more days to go.

 

[Eleftheria]

I don't remember about Buffy's LA boyfriends. I mean she must have only been flirting.

But if a mother found out about her daughter's first REAL boyfriend, that he was quite older than her, and that he was her first and she didn't know a clue about a relationship she would be definitely mad. I know my Mom would be! We, the audience, know that Angel was very sweet and he never put Buffy into a pressure like any other guy of her age would have done but Joyce doesn't know that. And after Angelus throwing right at her face: "I can't sleep since the night we made love" I think it's a miracle she didn't kill him with an axe or something LOL! But I think in the third season Buffy must have explained to Joyce about many things.
And it's obvious from the way Joyce talks to Angel in the Prom that she understands that there is true love between the two. I think she respects Angel and she likes him as a person. Remember the compliment "Angelus" said about her hair in "Enemies"? Joyce smiled like a young schoolgirl!

Anyway, if my parents found out about me being with a guy like Angel (older, dark past, not to mention the virginity thing) I really don't know about their reaction. I am not a person who keeps secrets from mom and dad but i think my Mom would be very cautious and Dad would like to kill him! lol

About Spike being more educated than Angel, are you sure? Angel with or without a soul he seems noble to me and educated. Remember "Waiting in the Wings" what he says about the ballet? And the man constantly reads books!
And, yeah, in season 2 Joyce seems to be kinda friendly or awkwardly kind to him maybe because Spike is not involved with her daughter, he is just helping him. If Joyce was around in season 6, well many things would be different.