Let me get this straight; they'll bring back Warren and The Master, but...

[Sweet J]

To be fair, every Buffy's boyfriend , former or not, turns into a puppy-eyed smitten teenager around her ( the protagonist curse ?) that has no will to resist her, and no other story but to be with/around her. Look at Riley S8-9 , and the guy is actually married. Look at Spike in S9, he is basically in the same position - sans the reciprocity.

I don't think Joss will stay away from Angel now that his title is back under the same roof of DH. Nor do I think Angel will remain in a separate book for long - the numbers do not add , and I cannot see how DH will support two main titles past S9. I sincerely hope the two comics will join into a single story - because ruining Angel's series just to bring forth gloomy, lame-ass A&F is not enough of a pay off for me, and I cannot see them trying to fit a broken egg back into its shell by returning Angel to LA and pretend S8-9 never happened - better make an omelet out of it and run a single story with extended cast. And no, I do not want any of the dead characters from AtS or BtVS back at this point - it will ruin the whole 'no more magic' plot. If we are headed towards the Fray future - lets bite the bullet and go on with less magic more tech universe.

I agree with you that the numbers don't add up, but to say that Angel turns into a teenage boy every time he is around Buffy is pretty far off the mark. Angel in the latter part of Season 3 of BtVS and season 1 of Angel was anything but a sissy boy when he was around her, he was very much his own person.

Buffy has become too big for her boots in the comics and an equally strong character, who sometimes does their own thing, like Faith & Angel's 'fang gang' is exactly what she needs IMHO.

As for the less magic more tech sentiment, hmm I'd prefer magic and tech be sidelined unless a big bad is involved. They both seem to be used as deus ex machina far too often of late, and are both like a can of worms.

So personally, I'd prefer a weakening of magic, or at least those who wield it, and a meddling of it and tech (but without effing spaceships!). Something akin to the tech shown in the Dark Angel franchise.

I don't think Buffy fighting Klingons in Spaceships/her being in a spaceship is really where the heart of BtVS resides. I know Joss Whedon is a serious fanboy of Battlestar Gallactica and made Firefly but seriously, you want more tech?

 

[ladydorotea]

I agree with you that the numbers don't add up, but to say that Angel turns into a teenage boy every time he is around Buffy is pretty far off the mark. Angel in the latter part of Season 3 of BtVS and season 1 of Angel was anything but a sissy boy when he was around her, he was very much his own person.

I do agree here - but that makes the DH comics' version of Angel even more of an annoyance to me. Look at his current agenda - it is all about Buffy again, when you scratch the surface. The whole (likely suicidal) drive of resurrecting Giles - while ignoring Connor's calls. Angel is trying to undo the pain Giles death dealt to her , while ignoring everybody else and likely all set on self-destruction. And what happened to the 'if nothing we do matters, then everything that matters is what we do' ? Got eaten by the 'most important thing to him is Buffy' - to quote from Allie?

Buffy has become too big for her boots in the comics

I guess you have not read the last issue of S9 yet...

equally strong character, who sometimes does their own thing, like Faith & Angel's 'fang gang' is exactly what she needs IMHO.

Mmm, maybe. One of my pet peeves with A&F is degrading of Faith as a character into a hardly recognizable Mary Sue: she is now a heiress of a big fortune, who changes her outfits every panel, wears 'love peace' necklace, is respected and loved by all and is basically a flawless paragon of virtue, a fearless leader and Angel's 'everything' sans getting into his pants - on top of already being the top dog Slayer. It is like they reversed Faith and Buffy's respective positions - not Faith's and Angel's, except Buffy used to have more flaws and less money. Brian K Vaughan's Faith's arc was brilliant - exactly because he kept Faith being herself - she was still a chain smoker, paranoid enough to stab Giles with a fork, and yet capable of instant bonding with Gigi. Just enough of the flaws to make her feel 'alive' and sympathetic - yet growing. A&F Faith irritates the shoes off me - by being so perfect and faceless at the same time.

seriously, you want more tech?

Hmm, I want the transition to Fray verse to feel genuine - in that verse we are supposed to have mutagens and steam-punk, vampires and flying cars, demons and laser guns, torques of precious metals replacing the $$ and kids stealing fresh meat - because they are sick of synthetic food. Magic was reduced to a trickle - and it felt OK because the tech was to upgraded. It does not have to get that far yet - but it would be fun to see these elements to start shaping up - like the fish mutating into Fish people, etc.

 

[cordangel]

Lady Dorotea wrote:
Originally Posted by Sweet J
I agree with you that the numbers don't add up, but to say that Angel turns into a teenage boy every time he is around Buffy is pretty far off the mark. Angel in the latter part of Season 3 of BtVS and season 1 of Angel was anything but a sissy boy when he was around her, he was very much his own person.

I do agree here - but that makes the DH comics' version of Angel even more of an annoyance to me. Look at his current agenda - it is all about Buffy again, when you scratch the surface. The whole (likely suicidal) drive of resurrecting Giles - while ignoring Connor's calls. Angel is trying to undo the pain Giles death dealt to her , while ignoring everybody else and likely all set on self-destruction. And what happened to the 'if nothing we do matters, then everything that matters is what we do' ? Got eaten by the 'most important thing to him is Buffy' - to quote from Allie?

Words.

The Angel of s3 of Buffy and s1 of Angel was different because, in the writers' intentions, he had to establish his own path as a leader character. Now, one of the writers of that time, and DH guys apparently have forgotten the lesson.

 

[MikeyTheWatcher]

Cordelia and Wesley was brought back temporarily in the After the fall comics(and Cordleia later on, but I'd rather pretend that didn't happen, it felt cheesy), which are called canon by Joss(some people argue that they're not canon anymore, but until he says otherwise...). So it's already been done. I actually think it was enough to bring back Wesley, that was very well done. Bringing back Cordelia felt weird, specially since her return in season 5 was kind of a resurrection in itself. But it worked.

Bringing back those characters in season 9 would be old. We've said our good byes, it was beautiful, please don't mess it up, is basically my thoughts on the subject. Joss had already brought back too many characters before Warren and the Master. I think the cut off point was Cordelia.

I agree. If he were to bring characters that died back all the time, then their deaths and the impacts of those deaths wouldn't mean anything. Cordelia's last episode of Angel was so powerful and I think to just have her randomly come would seriously undercut the importance of her exit.

 

[Xin Rong]

I miss the angel characters but to be honest Angel ended for me when the show did, after the fall wasn't great and neither was aftermath, so at the minute I am just happy to be enjoying angel and faith. It would be awesome to see cordy or fred/illyria again, but if I don't then it won't be the end of the world. For me A&F is awesome and I don't really want to look for too many negatives, these shows are always gonna have characters that we miss, but it shouldn't stop us trying to bond with new ones, and we shouldn't constantly critique other characters absence. If the story needs them then they'll return. I trust Joss knows what he's doing.

 

[Angel6]

i also preffered the show Angel to Buffy. My favourite seasons of Buffy were 2 and 3 and I have to say as a whole I much preffered 1-3 to 4-7 of Buffy, and for me the best series of either is either series 2 of Angel or Buffy, both were top notch. I disagree though that they should resurrect MORE characters. I think the story is going the way of a massive mistake (again) from Angel, horrific evil zombie Giles will turn up and Buffy everyone will be even more disappointed in Angel. Which will be rubbish. I completely hate the way the writers have retconned his character back to Buffy season 1 Angel practically. Just dont get it. Angel was such a good show, and he went through so much and became such a strong character. I like him and Buffy being together, and I do believe that was the way Whedon wanted the story to end, but not at the expense of the integrity of the character Angel and show AtS.

 

[drlloyd11]

If you are going to bring back the dead

How about Tara?



There is a clip on youtube (too new, so I can't link to it) of Joss describing his plan to do that, sounds awesome right?
He said he would have been a seminal moment on the show..sounds easy right?


But instead we see Kennedy next month in the comic.

At the end of the clip people boo at the mention of her name and dryly jokes"clearly my most popular decision ever, so this is what is feels like to be booed".

 

[Hale Caesar]

I'm asking this for the 687th time....where the hell is Gunn in season 9. He's alive. Why isn't he doing something.

 

[The Scourge]

I'm asking this for the 687th time....where the hell is Gunn in season 9. He's alive. Why isn't he doing something.

Joss only cares about how a character services Buffy's story; and as Gunn doesn't do that I doubt we will ever see him or any AtS character on Angel & Faith, hell I doubt we'll ever see any of them again.

 

[ladydorotea]

Illyria and Connor are prrety much confirmed to be in one of the S9 series. Connor is appearing in the next A&F arc , Illyria was mentioned by Allie as an upcoming feature of S9 BtVS in his answer to one of the letters ( A&F #10 letter column).

I can speculate that Joss considers AtF Gunn's story being conclusive to the character - you can hardly hope to top the drama of him being turned and all that happened after. Whedon usually tackles the character if he wants them to be pivotal to the drama - usually it means screwing them in some major way, or killing them dead, or both. Not sure if I want to see Gunn going evil or dead *again*.

Personally I would rather see Wesley's ghost again or any glimpse of Wesley at all... even in flashbacks.