Question Like the Season???

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Ripper666

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Well I think it is a bad bad bad season because the story start become so ridiciolous!!! With the secret state-organisation and so on. What do you think?😕
 
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caritas08
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Love it!

I loved the Initiative.

Tillow goodness, Woz goodness (and sadness), Evil Parker, Spike returns, Hush, Superstar, and (although I hate it--most people love it), Restless.

And the first episode was perhaps one of the best Season premieres of the entire series.

I was disappointed with Adam, but I still thought it was another great Buffy Season. 🙂
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
I totally agree!
I didn't like it, mainly because Adam was a lame Big Bad. The best episodes came when Angel and Faith were on, it had strong points and weak points but I consider Season 4 on the bottom in terms of quality
 
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caritas08
[No message]
Ive recently finished a re-watch of Season 4 so it is all pretty fresh to me at the moment.

My main comment is that the main season arc - the initiative, Adam - did not do anything for me. I found Adam to be an appalling Big Bad, so unexciting and at times - really dull. I am also not really a big Riley fan - I liked him to begin with but he started grating on me very quickly. I also think the Season has a lot of filler episodes, some okay, but just not top quality. It followed an incredible Season 3 for me, and the difference in quality is really apparent on this rewatch as I literally went straight into Season 4 after 3.

However, the saving grace for the season were some standout episodes: Hush is one of my all time favourite episodes, I loved the return of Faith and class This Year's Girl and Who Are You? as my top highlights of the season. Restless was also another amazing episode.

Spike was incredible in this Season - he stole every scene he was in and just made the whole show so enjoyable to watch.

All in all a mediocre season storyline wise but with INCREDIBLE standout episodes.

🙂
 
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SlayerFest
SlayerFest
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I like parts of it, Tillow, Xanya, Hush and a bunch of other episodes.. I don't like the whole Initiative/Adam story or Spikes return.. but yeah I enjoy most of the season.
 
you'd think they could've considered what happened in Sunnydale after the Mayor left. Who was taking over? The witches at SHS could've played a role. There were so many better possibilities than the "government is bad" cliche. I happen to have a military background, and the way they presented it didn't go over with me.
 
BuffyThoughts said:
you'd think they could've considered what happened in Sunnydale after the Mayor left. Who was taking over? The witches at SHS could've played a role. There were so many better possibilities than the "government is bad" cliche. I happen to have a military background, and the way they presented it didn't go over with me.
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Well the government as a whole wasn't really portrayed as "bad". The government set up shop and were conducting studies in Sunnydale. Maggie wasn't truly evil either because she was just creating an experiment based off of demon parts but I don't think her intent was to ever to try and do what Adam did.
 
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BuffyThoughts
Good point. You haven't posted much?
I enjoy Season 4. I liked the idea of the initiative, and I don't hate Adam as much as a lot of people seem to. "I like helter skelter" Comedic gold!

Some of my favourite fun episodes are in Season 4 (Pangs, Something Blue, Beer Bad, The Yoko Factor & Who Are You), and two of my favourite serious episodes are in Season 4 (Hush & Restless).

On top of that, it was released the (Australian) summer that I was leaving behind my small primary school and entering the scary and new world of high school so I could emotionally connect with the characters.

It also holds some of my most vivid memories of the time. I remember crimping my hair to look like Buffy's, I remember the patched flared jeans, I remember the paisely hair scarves.

All in all, despite the less than favourable general opinions of Season 4, it is actually one of my favourites. It doesn't feel as aged as 1-3, and doesn't take itself as seriously as 5-7. It still concentrates on the core characters and their life stories, while delivering solid one off episodes such as Hush.
 
Perfect Soldier?

orpheusxi said:
Well the government as a whole wasn't really portrayed as "bad". The government set up shop and were conducting studies in Sunnydale. Maggie wasn't truly evil either because she was just creating an experiment based off of demon parts but I don't think her intent was to ever to try and do what Adam did.
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My impression too. Maggie's idea was probably to create a "perfect soldier." There are many SF stories about that. Joss' idea, as I read it, is that this is one of those Faustian projects that shouldn't be attempted.

Remember in Restless, when Riley, in Buffy's dream, says they are laying plans for world domination? "We're the government, that's what we do."

Now, I happen to think there is a lot of truth in that. But individual soldiers don't think like that, not consciously. My guess is that even at the top they don't think like that, not consciously.
 
BuffyThoughts said:
Remember in Restless, when Riley, in Buffy's dream, says they are laying plans for world domination? "We're the government, that's what we do."

Now, I happen to think there is a lot of truth in that. But individual soldiers don't think like that, not consciously. My guess is that even at the top they don't think like that, not consciously.
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It was a dream...I've had dreams in which people I know say absolutely ridiculous things that they'd never say in real life.
 
castnoshadow said:
In Restless the only ridiculous thing is the Cheese Man. Everything else holds significance.
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What does a character saying something that they'd never say in real life...have to do with significance? Spike says that Giles is training him to become a watcher haha that would obviously never happen, yet that scene has some significance (the foreshadowing of Tabula Rasa). I didn't say that Riley's comment about the government was pointless, I was just pointing out that it doesn't have to make sense.
 
ProphecyGirl65 said:
What does a character saying something that they'd never say in real life...have to do with significance? Spike says that Giles is training him to become a watcher haha that would obviously never happen, yet that scene has some significance (the foreshadowing of Tabula Rasa). I didn't say that Riley's comment about the government was pointless, I was just pointing out that it doesn't have to make sense.
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As you say, it foreshadows Tabula Rasa. There's also the idea that Giles accidentally enabled Spike to become Buffy's literal watcher after he tried to get Spike killed in "Lies My Parents Told Me".

I just think that by saying it is an "absolutely ridiculous things that they'd never say in real life" you are writing it off and attaching no significance to it.

The fact of the matter is that it is Buffy's dream, not Riley's, therefore I think it symbolises Buffy's worries about the influence the Initiative could have on Riley and I think it makes perfect sense.
 
castnoshadow said:
As you say, it foreshadows Tabula Rasa. There's also the idea that Giles accidentally enabled Spike to become Buffy's literal watcher after he tried to get Spike killed in "Lies My Parents Told Me".

I just think that by saying it is an "absolutely ridiculous things that they'd never say in real life" you are writing it off and attaching no significance to it.

The fact of the matter is that it is Buffy's dream, not Riley's, therefore I think it symbolises Buffy's worries about the influence the Initiative could have on Riley and I think it makes perfect sense.
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I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense! I just mean...BuffyThoughts seemed to imply that Riley's portrayal of a soldier was wrong or something, and I was just saying that it IS after all Buffy's dream, so it makes sense that Riley might say something that a soldier wouldn't necessarily say. I personally didn't see a problem with what he said, I was kind of defending it. When I said that I've had dreams where people I know say ridiculous things, I was just saying that ...in dreams, people say things that they may not normally say. Did that make sense? Haha I have a tendency to not make any sense whatsoever.
 
I loved this season! I wasn't really into Adam as the Big Bad, and I think the Initiative could have been handled a little better, but the main storylines I found enjoyable.

I love Riley, I loved the Scoobies going to college and Giles getting the Magic Shop. Some of the episodes in this season are my favorites of the series: Something Blue, The Harsh Light of Day, This Year's Girl, Who Are You, The Yoko Factor, Restless...all wonderful to watch. And watching Buffy go psycho on her roommate was pretty funny. 🙂
 
ProphecyGirl65 said:
I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense! I just mean...BuffyThoughts seemed to imply that Riley's portrayal of a soldier was wrong or something, and I was just saying that it IS after all Buffy's dream, so it makes sense that Riley might say something that a soldier wouldn't necessarily say.
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I assume the Riley character would never actually say that. My assumption is that the idea of "government as power-grabbing evil" is an idea floating about somewhere, looking for a mouth to come out of, and in Buffy's dream it finds Riley's mouth. If I understand you correctly, I agree with what you say.

I've been a soldier myself. You're in a strange moral place. They have to believe they are good people and doing something right.
 
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Ripper666
[No message]
I loved this season particularly because of the character development. The Initiative, while it could've been better, wasn't as bad as people say. As a matter of fact, most of the things that were "wrong" with the seasons, I didn't pick up on until people pointed their finger at it. People spend their times being way too critical about things, it's ridiculous. Adam was a meh kinda villian, but Buffy has so much facets to it, so much depth to it, other than the villians, that makes me love this series.
 
I thought it was the worst season because the college setting, (UC Sunnydale) was just lame for me especially compared to Sunnydale High in seasons 1-3 and the Magic Box and Buffy's house in seasons 5-7. On top of that, even though Buffy and Riley make a fairly good couple, Biley is much less engaging, entertaining, and many less arcs are made out of them than Bangel and Spuffy. Also, I found Adam and the Initiative pretty boring compared to the average BtVS big bad. So, the setting, Buffy relationship, and big bad was what made this season the worst for me. Now I'm not hating on it, I like all of BtVS and Ats, but it is not my favorite. Some of the good things included Hush and Restless, Spike being it it still in his big bad state and not part of the Scoobies, but havign a large involvement, amd some other entertaining arcs.
 
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Ripper666
[No message]
I don't think it's the BEST season, but it is my favorite season personally.
It consists of three of my top ten favorite episodes (Pangs, The Initiative, and A New Man), and only had two bad episodes in my opinion (Living Conditions, and Beer Bad).
It is also the only season to have the original (Oz, Angel) and new (Anya, Tara, Riley) Scoobies minus Dawn together in the same season, including having Cordelia and Wesley still active offscreen on Angel.
I liked Riley early in the season when he first showed up, then when he became directly involved in the plot around "Doomed", he sort of got on my nerves. I simply think they should have left him as a recurring character. He was too much to deal with on an every-episode-basis.
Adam, I thought, was one of the most interesting villans on the show, along with The Initiative itself; an organization that was way over it's head about the supernatural and attempting to control it, resulting in the creation of Adam. I thought the idea of Adam trying to create a perfect race of beings, combining the intellegence of humans, the brute strength of demons, and the unemotional programming of machines was very clever and interesting. And, as far as Adam bing 'boring', well, that's the whole point! His character is supposed to be as intellegent as a human (And then some), as strong as a demon, and as unemotional as a machine, which he was.
So, personally, I liked Season Four.
 
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