Love can twist you up emotionally

T

tjkphilosopher

Need Faith on your side
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British Columbia
Now let me start off by saying there is no solid proof I am only supposing. To start to gain knowledge is to wonder.

Was Angel and Darla in love ? They were the equivalent of a couple married for 50 years. In their case over 100 years.

Yes they spent a lot of time arguing with one another. Most of their time together was spent killing humans. There was passion. A lot of passion.

When Angel tried to save Darla from the senior partners, I saw someone acting more out of love than just wanting to save her so she could have a chance at redemption. When he was first ensouled and Darla told him to go he was disgusting, she was only disgusted with him having a soul. When she first saw him in the tavern, I saw that love at first sight expression on her face. She was hurt losing him to his soul.

We can't get inside their minds to know for sure but can examine their actions towards one another, and examine the words they say to each other.
 
Darla and Angel were NEVER in Love.......heres why.

Heartthrob
Angel repeatedly said that he wasn't able to love as Angelus. Their relationship was violent, passionate, energetic but there was no love, which you can clearly see in the flashbacks. I think Darla was fascinated that she found someone that was even more viscious and dark than herself .. Angelus was her perfect vampire match .. that's why she never took another mate after him.

Since I don't believe that there is such a thing a *true love* or *soulmate* I won't go for such terms, but I think he did love Buffy and what she presented to him ... a new purpose, to become someone. So yes, I think his feelings were genuine, if he had transferred his feelings for Darla he would have probably ripped her apart just for fun j/k ... don't forget he did kill Darla for Buffy .. which he clearly wouldn't have done if he was in love with Darla.
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(a friend on another site)

here is a scene that proves Angelus was not in love...
Flashback to Marseilles, 1767, a bell is ringing the alarm and we can see the glow of a big fire lighting the side of the buildings at the end of the street.

Elisabeth and James are dancing down the street laughing, followed by a more sober Angelus and Darla.

Darla: "Young love."

Angelus: "Give it a century."

James: "A century? A mere hundred years?"

Elisabeth: "I would need a thousand just to sketch the perfect plane of your face."

James: "I would need ten thousand just to name the color of your eyes."

Angelus: "They're green, but take your time. In fact, don't. We have a ship to catch and Holtz may not be far behind."

James sighs.

Elisabeth: "You know neither poetry nor love, Angelus."

Darla: "He knows other things. Marvelously vile and ripping things. Didn't we eat a poet in Madrid?"

Angelus: "Troubadour."

James: "Everything's closed! Pity. I wanted to spend some of the counts gold on you."

Angelus: "We'll need it for the voyage."

Elisabeth: "The count DeLeon was a little rich for my blood. I'll be full for a week!"

Angelus: "The fire was excessive."

James: "Of course it was. We burned his villa to the ground!"

Elisabeth: "We left a mark, made a statement!"

Angelus: "Ah, a statement as in 'here, we are, Holz. Please, hunt us down.'"

James: "Ah, who cares about Holtz?"

Darla: "You would if you knew him. He's killed scores of us. Hunted Angelus and I across half of Europe. God, he follows us to Morocco, what then? The new world?"

James: "I say we stay and fight the bastard."

Angelus: "Yeah, but you're an idiot."

James: "I don't believe he's the most formidable vampire killer in the world. None lives to tell the tale and all. (leans closer) *You* lived to tell the tale."

Elisabeth to Darla: "I heard he trapped you both in a barn and *you* fled, leaving him to die."

James: "It's not true."

Angelus looking at Darla: "It's entirely true. She hit me with a shovel, wished me luck and rode off on our only horse."

Darla smiles up at Angelus, leaning in close to him: "Life is full of surprises."

Angelus: "Ah, life is boring. You're full of surprises."

Darla: "Of course when you finally did catch up with me in Vienna I had to pay for my sins, again and again."

Angelus: "Hmm, can you even begin to fathom the things that we did? Of course not. You're in love."
Darla and Angelus walk off. Angel turns back to see that Elisabeth is looking at a necklace in a shop window, James coming up behind her.

Angelus: "Let's not dawdle, children."

Elisabeth looking at the hear-shaped locket: "It's so pretty."

James: "No it's not."

Elisabeth: "James!"

James: "Not as pretty as it's going to be..."

James breaks the window and picks up the locket.

James: "When it's worn by the prettiest one of all."

James puts it around her neck.

Elisabeth: "I adore it. I'll *never* take it off!"

James swings her around then kisses her.

Some uniformed soldiers come up the street.

Angelus: "And this is what love gets you."

James laughs: "Elisabeth, you and Darla get to the ship, we'll join you there. (Gives her quick kiss) Let's give them a rout, what do you say Angelus?"

Angelus: "I'd say you're an idiot, but I'd just be repeating myself."

James: "Come on you bloody frogs! I broke the window and I'll break your skulls! (Laughs and turns to Angelus as Darla and Elisabeth disappear down the street) See, all you have to do is stand up to them. (To soldiers) What are you afraid of?"
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heres one from Darla


Lullaby

Darla: "Look, I know. It wants to come out. I can feel it. It's ready. It's just - I can't let it. I can't let because... because..."

Angel: "You love it."

Darla: "Completely. I love it completely. I-I-I don't think I've ever loved anything as much as this life that's inside of me."

Angel: "Well - you've never loved anything, Darla."

Darla: "That's true. Four hundred years and I never did - till now. - I don't know what to do."
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you can wonder as much as you like....Darla and Angel/Angelus were never in love.......
 
Dia DeLa Muerte said:
Darla and Angel were NEVER in Love.......heres why.


(a friend on another site)

here is a scene that proves Angelus was not in love...



heres one from Darla




you can wonder as much as you like....Darla and Angel/Angelus were never in love.......
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I hate to say it but on screen, Angel and Darla seemed like a couple in love - despite the words in the script. DB and JB failed to convey the fact that the two vampires did not love each other. At least to me.
 
They never gave the 'love' vibe, I got, remorse, pity, distaste, distrust and hate, they despised each other, but also held each other in high regard, but never, ever ever, did Love become something that was conveyed, even the very fact that when they say it, proves it. The lines are never said matter of factly as though they are trying to convince themselves, they are said in an off handed way, a way to prove that its not even in question.....
Darla and Angel never loved each other....how could they?
 
K
Kimm
[No message]
i think, what Darla and Angelus saw in each other was evil, violence, the abilty to revel in the kill with someone like them. they didn't have souls, but i guess it would be like they were kindred spirits in the world of evil. i don't think they were in love, 'cause i don't think they were capable of it.
but here's a twist.
what about Spike and Dru? we know that Spike was never a normal vampire, but was he in love with Drusilla?
 
K
Kimm
[No message]
Lust again isnt the issue, in the case of Darla and Angelus and even Angel, lust was one of the biggest factors in the relationship....but lust and love though are often identified together are also very separate entities.
 
K
Kimm
[No message]
More complex and difficult to know for sure

Well that is interesting bringing up Spike and Drusilla. They loved to kill together but was that all to the relationship. Also how long did Spike have feelings for Buffy. It wasn't just that one instant where he woke up in a cold sweat that may have feelings for her. May be that is why he always failed in killing Buffy.

Now one of you mention what Darla said when she was in labour. All she said was she thinks emphasis on thinks never loved anyone. She never considered if she had feelings of love for anyone. Particularly Angel.

The flashbacks in their history was to have us look closely at their life together. Yes they did a lot killing together and liked doing that together. However they each could have with others.

Angel knew what Darla liked. Wanted to run off with her from the Master. Like fools in love.

I don't remember Angel ever expressing that he loved Buffy. Angel had difficulty admitting his feelings for others.
 
E
Edmund Blackadder
you really dont get the show do you
Man do you watch these shows, at all.....please it really would explain an awful lot if you admitted you didn't.

WHEN Darla say's think, its NOT because she hasn't examined her life. its because she knows that she NEVER felt love. That she believed she never would.

What does Spike and Drusillas relationship have to do with Darla and Angelus/Angel...
You cannot compare these two relationships.
Spike loved Drusilla, thats evident, the killing to them was our equivalent of going out for dinner, just catching it and preparing it themselves....

You have several 'theories' in this thread, you don't follow one, you try and see which one people will agree with you on......

Do you have many little voices in your head telling you one thing one day another saying different the next, because not only do you miss our point, you forget your own.
Click to expand...

what i wrote to some of your points on another forum.....

now to answer your other points you didnt bring up there.

Angel knew what Darla liked. Wanted to run off with her from the Master. Like fools in love.
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Darla was drawn in by how EVIL Angelus was, by the excitement of what he offered. She didn't want to spend her time in a dank sewer when she could be offered fine hotel rooms......
It wasn't love that took her away from the master, it was the excitement of something new...you know how you can verify this.....watch the show and SEE there entire story!.

I don't remember Angel ever expressing that he loved Buffy. Angel had difficulty admitting his feelings for others.
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Yeah Angel never said i love you to Buffy....no wait...

Buffy: (whispers reassuringly) Shh. Don't worry about it.

She brushes her fingers over his lips and across his cheek. She lays her
hand on his cheek and kisses him softly. He returns the kiss, and it
becomes more passionate. Behind them the vortex has grown to about five
feet (1.5 m) across and continues to get larger. Buffy breaks off the
kiss and looks deeply into Angel's eyes.

Buffy: (whispers) I love you.

Angel: (whispers) I love you.

She touches his lips with her fingers again.

Buffy: Close your eyes.

She nods reassuringly, and he closes his eyes. She tries hard not to
start crying, and kisses him again gently. She steps back, draws back
her sword and thrusts it into his chest. His eyes whip open in surprise
and pain, and a bright light emanates from the sword. She steps away
from him. He reaches out to her and looks down at the sword thrust
completely through him. He looks at her imploringly, completely
bewildered by this turn of events. She can only stare at the sword
protruding from his chest, and slowly steps further back.

Angel: Buffy...
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Becoming Part 2

Buffy: You almost went away today.

Angel: We both did.

Buffy: (sobs) Angel... (sniffles) I feel like I lost you... (sniffles)
You're right, though. We can't be sure of anything.

Angel: Shhh. I...

She turns around to look at him.

Buffy: You what?

Angel: I love you. I try not to, but I can't stop.

Buffy: Me, me, too. I can't either.

They start to kiss. After a moment Angel breaks off.

Angel: Buffy, maybe we shouldn't...

Buffy: (stops him) Don't. Just kiss me.
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Surprise

.................................
Buffy wearing a long flowery dress is pacing Angel's apartment. Angel comes down the steps to his apartment.
Buffy: "I'm guessing that expression isn't because they were all out of fresh OJ at the deli. - What happened?"
Angel: "Nothing happened. - I just.."
Buffy: "Where have you been?"
Angel: "I went to see the Oracles. I asked them to turn me back."
Buffy: "What? - Why?"
Angel: "Because more then ever I know how much I love you."
Buffy backs away from him: "No. No, you didn't."
Angel follows her: "And if I stayed mortal one of us would wind up dead, maybe both of us. You heard what Mohra said."
Buffy: "Mohra is dead. We killed him."
Angel: "He said others would come."
Buffy: "They always come. And they always will. But that's my problem now, not yours, remember?"
Angel: "No, I won't just stand by and let you fight, maybe die, alone."
Buffy: ..........................
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I will Remember you..

Ohh yeah maybe i DO remember Angel saying he loved Buffy....my bad....

Seriously, i dont know what you think you saw, but i really don't think it was the show everyone else did......you should watch it ALL again and you will see where you have taken things wrong....
Philosopher....my arse.
 
K
Kimm
You're right on!! I couldn't have said it better myself!!
I personally suspect that Angel and Darla were in love - despite what anyone says. Their actions and expressions of emotion toward one another spoke a louder to me than their words.
 
Yes regardless what anyone may say looking at how two people act towards one another can speak louder than words. If you only capable of or want to listen to what is said will lash out at those who sees another possibility.
 
Absolutely...no angry debates. Never accomplish anything. No insults or belittling. Need to encourage more than 5 people to participate. Anyone who has a different perspective can jump in.
 
Love is an odd feeling

Anyway moving on. It is difficult to know when one is in love. You could spend most of your life with someone and not realize that in love with that person.

Angel and Darla was together for over hundred years. They killed together. Yes. They caused mayhem together. Yes. But was that all to their relationship.

Yes he killed her in the bronze but you could see in his face that didn't want to. He hadn't acknowledge in any way feelings for Buffy back then. So can't say was doing it for her. Darla was shooting up the place he had to stop her.

Then as someone brought up you have Spike and Drusilla. Can see that the two of them were in love. However they behaved the same as Angel and Darla.

Neither Spike nor Angel wanted to admit having feelings for Buffy. Spike tried to deny and Angel was avoidy.

Now lets look at love in a different way. Xander and Cordelia. The two of them insulted each other before and after became a couple. When they first broke up Cordy denied still having feelings for him that is why Xander love spell backfired. When the two of them broke up second time for good Cordy denied that she ever had feelings for him. However was that really how she felt or was she just protecting her feelings.

Some people fall in love with who originally couldn't stand. How does someone go from hating being around one to wanting to spend the rest of their lives together.
 
It ISN'T a debate if NO evidence is brought to the TABLE.
JUSTbecause its true that SOMETIMES love is boiling underneat SOME relationships born from hate, dislike, lust and aggression DOES NOT mean it happens everytime.
YOU try being all insightful and 'philosophical' but in essence you are being moronic, because while you want us to look at something ISNT'T there YOU neglect the mant many MANY bits of HARD FACTUAL EVIDENCE....
Rather then TRY to spurt all this inasne and ridiculus 'Darla and Angelus' BS, BRING, like i and others have on other boards, IRREFUTABLE proof.
JUST because your mind is open to a possibility DOES NOT MEAN, when all said and done, ITS there.
YOU try to make people seem close minded because they refuse to see what is there, when infact YOU are the one is is close minded because you IGNORE the...ohh whats that word..ohh yeah....FACTS!

Anyway moving on. It is difficult to know when one is in love. You could spend most of your life with someone and not realize that in love with that person.

Angel and Darla was together for over hundred years. They killed together. Yes. They caused mayhem together. Yes. But was that all to their relationship.
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AND you could spend an ETERNITY with someone and realise you DON'T love someone....
Spike and Angelus/Angel had the same type of relationship yet i dont think they loved each other.....
Geez man, not only get with the programme...watch it!.

Yes he killed her in the bronze but you could see in his face that didn't want to. He hadn't acknowledge in any way feelings for Buffy back then. So can't say was doing it for her. Darla was shooting up the place he had to stop her.
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OF COURSE he wanted to, HE doesnt agonize over his decision after, he carries on with his life.
Darla WAS someone important to him, granted, she was the woman that created him, but she also unleashed Angelus onto the world, and he hated her for that. He hated that he was a Vampire.....That does NOT mean there was love there.
His feelings for Buffy don't even enter the equation, Darla was Evil, Angel Killed her....ohhh thats his pledge of eternal love for her isnt it....i missed that you fool.

Then as someone brought up you have Spike and Drusilla. Can see that the two of them were in love. However they behaved the same as Angel and Darla.

Neither Spike nor Angel wanted to admit having feelings for Buffy. Spike tried to deny and Angel was avoidy.
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You keep bring Spike and Drusilla up as though its evide3nce, YOU CANNOT compare two SEPARATE love affairs on TWO different groups of people, Spike loved Drusilla, so what. HOW did Darla and Angel act the same as Spike and Dru, where is your EVIDENCE....Spike has always been the guy who worked from the heart from love, Angelus worked from a place of pain and misery.
Your point on Buffy is pointLESS.
Just because they both fell in love with the same girl, then denied those feelings FOR DIFFERENT AND JUST REASON, does not mean that they are similar beings in that fashion ergo, does nothing to prove your point on Angelus/Darla.

Now lets look at love in a different way. Xander and Cordelia. The two of them insulted each other before and after became a couple. When they first broke up Cordy denied still having feelings for him that is why Xander love spell backfired. When the two of them broke up second time for good Cordy denied that she ever had feelings for him. However was that really how she felt or was she just protecting her feelings.
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Again with the 'well it worked that way for someone else SO it MUST be true for EVERYONE ON THE PLANET'....i have people i hate, argue with and there is NO chance i'd ever want to be in a loving relationship.....jeez man, could you try a different record, one that ISN't broken......

Some people fall in love with who originally couldn't stand. How does someone go from hating being around one to wanting to spend the rest of their lives together.
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EXACTLY..SOME....there is NO evidence, what so evert to back up your claims that Angelus and Darla fall into the 'some' catagory.....

YOU DO NOT HAVE A POINT with this argument, no evidence, no cohesive facts, nothing.
IF you could bring THAT to the table i would not be sat here laughing at YOU now, nor the many other people who can SEE how your argument is so far beyond flawed......

Anyone else care to join, for or against, just please if you do, bring hard facts, because i will not relent, but dang this guy is using the same defence, and theres only two things i hate in this world, people who cannot see beyond there own limited mind set.....
and the Dutch...(sorry dont really hate them but its the Nigel Powers line from Goldmember....highlarious)
 
Love is a funny thing

Buffy couldn't believe that would be in love with Spike. So she denied having feelings for him. Spike didn't believe her that didn't love him.

Xander wanted to marry Anya then made the big announcement and almost immediately after he started to have doubts. He falls for what the demon showed him minutes before the ceremony and even though he finds out the future was false he called the whole thing off. However later he wants her back.

Both Xander and Buffy felt the same feelings over seeing Spike and Anya. Spike and Anya wanted to hurt the two of them with the additional bonus Buffy perhaps does have love for Spike.

As a way to cover up her pain Cordy hurls insults at people. Whether its losing Xander or her parents losing everything to the IRS destroying her future. She denys her feelings.
 
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