Maybe one day she'll be dead and you'll be sorceress supreme... *possible spoilers*

[VisionGuy]

This quote from BtVS #20 seems to imply that Buffy knows that Cordelia is dead. Does anybody think that since she knows that, she should know Spike is alive and kicking? I mean Spike >>>>> Cordelia in Buffy's eyes. So why would Angel or whoever tell Buffy about Cordy's demise and not about Spike's return?

If this was discussed already feel free to merge or lock or whatever. And if I mispelled something in the title and a mod can fix it for me, that would be great.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I don't know... but I suspect Buffy's friends were deliberately keeping the fact that Spike was alive from her, and that they would not have had any reason to do so with news of Cordy's death.

Spike himself may have even been a part of that conspiracy of silence... maybe even requested that they not tell her.

Or she may know all about Spike and it just hasn't been mentioned. But if it has been kept from her, she's gonna be one angry Slayer when she finds out. (Especially with Spike for not making any attempt to contact her.)

 

[sosa lola]

Do we even know that Buffy's friends know? The only one who knows is Andrew, and perhaps he told Giles, but we don't know for sure.

 

[Kean]

Personally I think it was a reference to FutureDark!Willow who is centuries old and so obviously Cordelia would be dead by then...as were all Buffy's friends. I don't think she would make a joke at Cordy's expense like that, not if she had known what had actually happened.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Personally, I think that quote was just a result of Jeph Loeb writing dialog in a more lighthearted and casual manner than we're used to lately. I don't know if he has a sense of how we hang on every single word in these comics and try to figure out the deeper meaning behind every sentence.

Though I think it'll be hilarious if he shows up at his next convention and gets immediately fragged by crowds of outraged Cordy fans.

 

[VisionGuy]

Personally I think it was a reference to FutureDark!Willow who is centuries old and so obviously Cordelia would be dead by then...as were all Buffy's friends. I don't think she would make a joke at Cordy's expense like that, not if she had known what had actually happened.

I actually never thought of that. Maybe she really was referring to Willow in the future. Although, I disagree with you about Buffy not making a joke like that at Cordy's expense. She never liked her.

And the fact that Cordelia stole Angel from Buffy would make her kinda bitter. *cough cough*

 

[Kean]

I actually never thought of that. Maybe she really was referring to Willow in the future. Although, I disagree with you about Buffy not making a joke like that at Cordy's expense. She never liked her.

And the fact that Cordelia stole Angel from Buffy would make her kinda bitter. *cough cough*

Please boy, Cordy didn't steal anyone! She had been trying for 8 years and she still never got Angel! :eviltongu

The only time Buffy is that mean to Cordy is in When she was bad...she is never unnecessarily mean. It would make even less sense considering how long it is since she saw Cordy. I don't see her saying something that callous, not if she knew how COrdy died.

 

[VisionGuy]

Please boy, Cordy didn't steal anyone! She had been trying for 8 years and she still never got Angel! :eviltongu

The only time Buffy is that mean to Cordy is in When she was bad...she is never unnecessarily mean. It would make even less sense considering how long it is since she saw Cordy. I don't see her saying something that callous, not if she knew how COrdy died.

Buffy wasn't mean to Cordelia that much but you can tell she still didn't like her even after she moved to LA. Like in I Will Remember You, Buffy asks Cordelia how she is but her tone implies that she is doing it to be polite and doesn't really give a crap. Not to mention when Cordelia is packing up the office and Buffy is only interested in where Angel is. You can tell that she just wants to get up, go, and avoid any small talk. I'm not saying that Cordelia is innocent in all this because she has been a bitch to Buffy all through high school, and whenever Cordelia speaks about Buffy on Angel implies that she still is indifferent towards her. I would have thought that after they graduated high school, that beef between them would have been squashed. I don't know, I think that comment about Cordelia being dead was very in character for Buffy.

 

[Kean]

Buffy wasn't mean to Cordelia that much but you can tell she still didn't like her even after she moved to LA. Like in I Will Remember You, Buffy asks Cordelia how she is but her tone implies that she is doing it to be polite and doesn't really give a crap. Not to mention when Cordelia is packing up the office and Buffy is only interested in where Angel is. You can tell that she just wants to get up, go, and avoid any small talk. I'm not saying that Cordelia is innocent in all this because she has been a bitch to Buffy all through high school, and whenever Cordelia speaks about Buffy on Angel implies that she still is indifferent towards her. I would have thought that after they graduated high school, that beef between them would have been squashed. I don't know, I think that comment about Cordelia being dead was very in character for Buffy.

I don't know...I just can't hear her saying it. Once agin my friend we disagree😉

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

Buffy wasn't mean to Cordelia that much but you can tell she still didn't like her even after she moved to LA. Like in I Will Remember You, Buffy asks Cordelia how she is but her tone implies that she is doing it to be polite and doesn't really give a crap. Not to mention when Cordelia is packing up the office and Buffy is only interested in where Angel is. You can tell that she just wants to get up, go, and avoid any small talk. I'm not saying that Cordelia is innocent in all this because she has been a bitch to Buffy all through high school, and whenever Cordelia speaks about Buffy on Angel implies that she still is indifferent towards her. I would have thought that after they graduated high school, that beef between them would have been squashed. I don't know, I think that comment about Cordelia being dead was very in character for Buffy.

Yeah but you have to remember that that was in the beginning stages of Cordelia's change. Remember that when Buffy and Cordelia knew each other, save for maybe Season Two Cordelia was VERY superficial and would always talk badly about Buffy and her crew, so nobody really had high feelings for Cordelia not even Angel, until she eventually changed her ways through working with him and became a completely different woman, and woman that Buffy never really got to know or see.

 

[VisionGuy]

Yeah but you have to remember that that was in the beginning stages of Cordelia's change. Remember that when Buffy and Cordelia knew each other, save for maybe Season Two Cordelia was VERY superficial and would always talk badly about Buffy and her crew, so nobody really had high feelings for Cordelia not even Angel, until she eventually changed her ways through working with him and became a completely different woman, and woman that Buffy never really got to know or see.

Which is exactly why I think that Buffy would make that kind of remark about Cordelia.

 

[Mumrik]

Personally I think it was a reference to FutureDark!Willow who is centuries old and so obviously Cordelia would be dead by then...as were all Buffy's friends. I don't think she would make a joke at Cordy's expense like that, not if she had known what had actually happened.

I had the same thought but I always associated the term sorceress/sorcer with being a good witch/warlock so I dropped that pretty quickly - but that might just be me. I don't know if that's really how it works or if it's simply just a neutral term like witch.
Plus, would Buffy really try to comfort Willow with the fact that she'll be evil for the next two centuries or so? I don't think so. Yes, she doesn't say that to her face but she sure must have thought about that.

If she knows that Cordelia is dead I think she may refer to the "Gandalf moment" Willow had when she activated all the Potentials back in "Chosen". And yes, I think Buffy would talk about Cordelia's death like that because they never really liked each other even after Cordelia had moved to L.A. and they didn't seem to have much contact if any at all after Season 4/1 - maybe through Willow. But seeing as how things were between Angel's gang and the Scoobies - with all the mistrust - I doubt that Buffy would have known.
Though that mistrust came from the Scoobies' side and a death sure wouldn't be kept from old friends (in the widest sense) no matter how things stood between them.
So I think that's the more possible out of the two theories.

 

[Enisy]

bamph: I suppose I'll be the elephant in the room and ask since I imagine someone is bound to. Buffy's line to Willow, in order to cheer her up over Cordelia's insult, about maybe someday she'll be dead has caused a lot of controversy with some having no problem with it while others believing it was in poor taste. So my question is, since we've gotten mixed signals on what she does and does not know, does Buffy actually know Cordelia died and how much does Buffy know about the events of Angel Season 5? If that's too spoilery a question though then what are your thoughts on the controversy that line has caused?
Scott Allie: I try not to think too much about the controversies"”like do we want more faces from the past, or fewer: see questions 8 & 10 below. We just tell it like we gotta. My simple, vague answer is that we can assume that Buffy knows everything that any characters in her organization, like Andrew, know, or could find out. Cordelia's death would be a known fact, I should think, nothing secret about it.

So it was just bad writing on Jeph Loeb's part.

Not sure if this indicates that Buffy also knows that Spike is alive, by the way, since there is something "secret" about his death. (He had Andrew promise not to tell her.)

 

[AndrewCrossett]

"My simple, vague answer is that we can assume that Buffy knows everything that any characters in her organization, like Andrew, know, or could find out."

Actually, I think that is a very big assumption.

But assuming Scott does in fact know the whole plot of season 8 right through to the end, this statement from him pretty much indicates that the seeming disconnect between Buffy and her people in Angel s5 will not be addressed, at least not this season.

Can you provide a link to this interview, BTW?

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Anyone else think it's hilarious that Buffy made that Joke and we are all like "That was in poor taste" - When it's in reference to a Fake person making a joke about a Fake dead person in a comic book!

Don't get me wrong when I read it I was disappointed with Buffy, it didn't sound like something Buffy would say, it was pretty mean!

I think SA just confirmed that Buffy knows about Spike (Which makes sense, could you see Andrew keeping that from her?)

I don't think it matters that she knows Spike is alive, she wouldn't go looking for him, she doesn't love him! (sorry had to put that out there)

 

[Enisy]

You sure about that? Joss Whedon did instruct Sarah to "love him when she says she loves him", and he did say he's the most important man in her life, right up there with Angel. It's debatable at the very least.

Can you provide a link to this interview, BTW?

It's a Q&A on *********, and I don't think linking to other forums is allowed here...

 

[wehappyfew]

buffy and cordelia are each-other's yin-yang in a lot of ways.
they both can be huge bitca's...cordelia less so in later seasons, buffy moreso.

but buffy did just watch willow get picked on by cordelia...and buffy only really *knows* high school cordelia.
i can hear buffy saying it to cheer willow up.
i can hear buffy saying it to be a bitca, seeing as she's probably a tad insensitive these days (s8)
i can hear buffy saying after the events she saw and knowing that willow's going to change sooo much from s1 willow, and not know how much cordy's going to change post-buffy.

really, i have no problem with it. even though it was a little insensitive...it doesn't surprise me.
i don't think it was "mean" to cordelia...she didn't say it to her face. it was very high school...and HEY! that's where she was when she said it.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I don't know... but I suspect Buffy's friends were deliberately keeping the fact that Spike was alive from her, and that they would not have had any reason to do so with news of Cordy's death.

Spike himself may have even been a part of that conspiracy of silence... maybe even requested that they not tell her.

Or she may know all about Spike and it just hasn't been mentioned. But if it has been kept from her, she's gonna be one angry Slayer when she finds out. (Especially with Spike for not making any attempt to contact her.)

Hit the nail on the head. All plausible. Also, with Cordy her death would literally be public record. She was a human with a SS# and died in a hospital. And Willow & Fred corresponded.

buffy and cordelia are each-other's yin-yang in a lot of ways.
they both can be huge bitca's...cordelia less so in later seasons, buffy moreso.

but buffy did just watch willow get picked on by cordelia...and buffy only really *knows* high school cordelia.
i can hear buffy saying it to cheer willow up.
i can hear buffy saying it to be a bitca, seeing as she's probably a tad insensitive these days (s8)
i can hear buffy saying after the events she saw and knowing that willow's going to change sooo much from s1 willow, and not know how much cordy's going to change post-buffy.

really, i have no problem with it. even though it was a little insensitive...it doesn't surprise me.
i don't think it was "mean" to cordelia...she didn't say it to her face. it was very high school...and HEY! that's where she was when she said it.

We really don't know how much Buffy knew about S3 Cordy. But since we do and we know that Cordy died thinking she was Ascending to fight the good fight on a Higher Plane, Buffy's remark was super-insensitive. Also, Cordy's returned twice now, and has put Angel back on the Champion path both times, so she's not really someone that should get mocked for dying.

I get that Buffy probably knew very little about S3/5/6 Cordy though.

 

[Mumrik]

Hit the nail on the head. All plausible. Also, with Cordy her death would literally be public record. She was a human with a SS# and died in a hospital. And Willow & Fred corresponded.

They did? Was that stated anywhere? The only time I remember them having contact was when Willow was in L.A. to put Angel's soul back.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

They did? Was that stated anywhere? The only time I remember them having contact was when Willow was in L.A. to put Angel's soul back.

No, you're right. It's just that they said they had been corresponding, and I assumed that the correspondence continued until Fred's death. That's just a guess though.