Men hitting women

[Living Dead Boy]

Alright guys, venturing into touchy subject matter here, but it's something I've been thinking about since hearing of singers Miranda Lambert and Chris Brown's tweeting war. Miranda's basically upset about Chris Brown's Grammy performance and his subsequent Grammy win. She doesn't like the fact that everyone's forgiving of Chris ever since his assault on his ex-girlfriend Rihanna three years ago. A lot of people are on her side, viewing Chris Brown as a woman beater who should never be forgiven...

...But here's the thing that bugs me about this case, and about violence in general. If a man hits a woman, he's automatically the villain. "No man should EVER hit a woman", people cry. But, IMO, nobody should hit anybody period. There are numerous amounts of cases where the wife (or girlfriend) is the abuser of her partner, yet if a man speaks up about his abuse, he's viewed as a coward by society for "being weak", or for not "controlling her better".

Another example. On an Indian game show, one man apparently said something that was displeasing towards a woman. She slapped him, and he automatically slapped her back. He then repeated "how can she slap? How can she slap?" (That catchphrase became popular, and the target of laughs and mock videos around 2010). That enraged the cast and crew of the show, and they immediately began to beat on him, with no one coming to his rescue.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2HhTFQMOEU"]How Can She Slap?[/ame]

Women are clearly capable of taking care of themselves. While I don't condone violence towards women in any way, shape, or form, I don't condone the opposite as well. What are you views on domestic violence? Do you feel abuse shouldn't be tolerated on both sides of the spectrum?

 

[Buffy Summers]

You're talking about two different issues here. Chris Brown beat Rihanna within an inch of her life. That men are stigmatized for speaking up about abuse by women does not make it okay for men to beat women.

Miranda Lambert is absolutely right. It is disgusting that Chris Brown still has a career, let alone that he is asked to perform on every venue out there. If the people in charge were doing the right thing, rather than the profitable thing, we would never hear a thing about Chris Brown again. That people overlook what he's done and have such a short memory shows how far our society has fallen. People seem more enraged about a fake wedding on the Kardashians.

It's a shame Rihanna didn't press charges and get his ass thrown in jail.

 

[Seeing Red]

I do not approve or agree with domestic abuse of any type, physical or emotional. I think it is equally wrong for anyone of any sex or in any type of relationship to harm purposely their loved ones in any way. There are no excuses in my eyes. Everyone gets angry, it never gives them the right to harm another living being.

 

[NY State of Mind]

Yeah I agree with you Marsh....violence should be violence no matter what but it never is. I believe in equal rights. If a small man beats up a big man he will be held responsible just as if the big man beats up on the small man....however if a woman beats up on a man its a joke while a man beats up on a woman he is the worst person in the world. I agree everybody should be held accountable no matter who's weaker or stronger.

Also I agree he should have the right to be forgiven...I don't believe you have to forgive him, but I don't see how you can say nobody should forgive him. Everybody is capable of crossing lines and if people want to forgive them for it then who am I to say they shouldn't. BTW I can't really speak on Chris Brown situation cause I wasn't there but I doubt she was within inches of her life...I know she was bruised up outside but I don't recall hearing about serious injuries

 

[WileyDairyGnome]

I agree, I believe in complete equal rights, and that no one, neither man or woman should have the right to hit one another. It's disgusting when a man hits a woman, but I don't think women should have the right to hit a man either just because they're a woman. I thought women wanted to be taken equally as men? If that's the case, then women shouldn't have the right to hit a man either.

At least, that's what I think. No one should ever hit another person. Everyone gets angry, and violence is never the way out, it just makes things worse whether you're a man or a woman.

 

[EvilWillow]

You're talking about two different issues here. Chris Brown beat Rihanna within an inch of her life. That men are stigmatized for speaking up about abuse by women does not make it okay for men to beat women.

Miranda Lambert is absolutely right. It is disgusting that Chris Brown still has a career, let alone that he is asked to perform on every venue out there. If the people in charge were doing the right thing, rather than the profitable thing, we would never hear a thing about Chris Brown again. That people overlook what he's done and have such a short memory shows how far our society has fallen. People seem more enraged about a fake wedding on the Kardashians.

It's a shame Rihanna didn't press charges and get his ass thrown in jail.

I agree with every syllable. That man is disgusting and should have gone to jail.


For anyone that hasn't seen, this is Rhianna after he beat her:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/02/20/article-0-0396E5F8000005DC-297_468x624.jpg

http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/02/24/0224-rihanna-bn-mediaoutake-credit.jpg

 

[kittenpoker]

This is a really difficult topic....I'm having a hard time finding words....

Yes, equality....I believe in it. Really, fully, truly!

But I have to admit that a man hitting a woman feels different somehow - not that anyone hitting anyone is ok... I just, I don't know what it is....

I need to think about this more.

 

[Aloverssoulz]

I find the whole "men should never hit a women" thing horse crap. If someone attacks me i'm going to defend myself the best I can, man or woman. I was raised by my mother telling me that if I get hit, hit back because I grew up in a bad place (not awful. There was no gun crime or murder) where there was a lot of fighting and I got into my fair share of them with boys and girls and i'm telling you, girls can handle themselves fine.

If anything, girls hurt me the most. When you get into a fight with a guy you'll punch eachother a few times, get bored and walk away. Girls on the other hand try to rip you a new one. Guys fight to win, girls fight to kill. Under my eyes, my neck, lips - all cut up and blooded that took weeks to fully heal.

I find it very sexist towards men and women when someone says "never hit a woman" it makes the women seem less than men, like little kids. I was raised by a strong woman in the 90's during the whole "Girl Power" era with Spice Girls, Xena, Buffy etc. Where women were being looked at as equals to men. It should be "never attack another person", violence is NOT the answer! If you're arguing with someone keep it as that and walk away. Don't punch, kick, slap etc. another person because you dislike the words they are saying, but if someone does hit you you've every right to protect yourself. Boo who to whoever disagrees with that.

However, what Chris Brown did wasn't self defense. It was an assault. If I remember right Rihanna was yelling a Chris over some text message he got on his phone on the night of the Grammys and they went into the car to drive home. Chris held Rihanna down with one hand punching her, biting her over and over again as he drove. She kept telling him to stop but he didn't. He busted her lip, left her body badly bruised, both her eyes were swollen etc. He didn't stop, he kept beating her and was going to keep beating her, but she got out of the car and yelled for help, to which someone heard and called the cops. If Chris got her into the house her face and body would have been much, much worst.

That wasn't self defense. That was Chris blinded by rage and beating Rihanna continuously for maybe 15-20 minutes while he drove home to where he stated he was going to beat her more. He was ordered to Anger Management which didn't help because he had another fit in the make up trailer of "Good Morning America" or something and walked around topless backstage kicking things over and cursing a few months later.

If he didn't want Rihanna yelling into his ear over a text he should have told her to get out of the car and find her own way home.

Pictures

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2...hoto-taken-after-chris-brown-beating-reveale/

EDIT: The reason people got mad a few weeks ago at Chris was because he pretty much returned to the scene of the crime (Grammys) and the Grammys treated him as if he was some kind of living legend.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I agree with you, Marshall. It is a very big problem.

With regard to the Rihanna case though, as others have said, Chris Brown absolutely deserves to be locked up and any "artistic" contributions he has made should be basically ignored as far as I'm concerned, (they're not worth very much anyway).

But in general, as a separate issue, it is a big problem that men feel they can't speak out or get help when a woman attacks them. The stigma surrounding men hitting women comes from the fact that men are biologically stronger than women; the notion of a person hitting someone who is, in all likelihood weaker,(though of course there are exceptions) is what people have a visceral reaction to. But that doesn't mean that women have the right to hit or assault men without consequence.

And setting up a situation in which it is acceptable in our society for a woman to hit or sexually assault a man while the man just sits there and "takes it" is just disgusting. Not saying he should hit her back but self defense should always be tolerated when absolutely necessary, regardless of the genders involved. It's unfortunate that it's ever needed, but we're pretty despicable creatures sometimes.

 

[SlayerFest]

This is a really difficult topic....I'm having a hard time finding words....

Yes, equality....I believe in it. Really, fully, truly!

But I have to admit that a man hitting a woman feels different somehow - not that anyone hitting anyone is ok... I just, I don't know what it is....

I need to think about this more.

Right there with ya.

I do agree that women do abuse men sometimes and that it's not okay. I watched a clip of the Dr. Phil show the other day...about a woman who abused her husband who was in the army. The comments were so sick. Some people claimed to know her and they said, "He's not as innocent as they're making him out to be. He cheated on her." So...he deserves to get slapped around for cheating? If a man abused his wife for cheating, people would call him a monster. I find it horrible either way. I think most people find it worse when a man hits a girl because of the whole "women aren't in control of their emotions" crap. A woman can slap a man because she's on the rag or she's just too emotional, but if a man does, he's a bastard who deserves to be locked up. No one has any right to hit someone! I don't know. If a woman pushes a man away from her in disgust or while they're fighting (as in arguing), that isn't seen as abuse. She's just upset. If a man does it, it's horrible. I do agree that men are typically stronger than women, and that a man should be aware of his strength and just back off. I would expect a woman who is a body builder who is dating/married to a man who is not as strong as she is...to do the same.


Society is warped.

 

[ButWhy]

Funny reminds me of a few years back when my buddy got beaten up by his girlfriend... he called the cops and everything... well when we found out about it we laughed pretty good about it, even he laughed about it. Guys can take it, most woman can't take a punch or a fight with a guy, I think emotionally it has no/very little effect on guys but it can on woman. I understand with how some can say if a woman hits a guy the guy should protect himself and hit back but I don't know... I've been slapped before and it stings but I couldn't see myself hitting a woman back over it.

 

[Cast No Shadow]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QP9-9EhBsU"]Andy Levy's Apology To Chris Brown - YouTube[/ame]
Have any of you guys seen this before? I think it sums a lot of the Chris Brown stuff up perfectly.

I also think that it has a simple answer, of course no one should be hit, man, woman, child, animal.

 

[Goby]

I've been involved in representing victims of domestic violence for about 14 years now (wow, how times flies!).

First, in California, and I believe in most states, victims don't "press charges." They did 10-20 years ago, and it was horrible. Most cops were men, most perps were calm, and most victims were "hysterical." Plus it was considered a "private matter." In Calif cops must arrest if they see injuries. And cops are trained to know what defensive wounds look like.

I would say that 90% of my clients were/are women. There is a stigma about men reporting domestic violence. Experts say 50% of the victims are men. They don't want to admit they were beat up by a "girl." Of course there are some men who want to be hit, because it's great evidence for a custody case. Things are worse for those in homosexual relationships because of the stigma still attached.

I've met men who have gone through Batter's treatment. It's pretty easy to see when someone has actually changed, much like a truly reformed alcoholic. It's not an easy fix. Perps usually have to deal with terrible childhood issues that they haven't resolved.

Chris Brown got off easy. I think it's terrible that if I beat up Rhiannon I would have gone to prison for years, but because Chris had sex with her and had high priced lawyers, he got off really, really easy. To further complicate things, the Los Angeles County District Attorney is horrible with high profile cases. They couldn't afford to lose another.

 

[Joshua]

I'm sickened and disgusted at the thought of Chris Brown getting off easy for almost killing a woman. Idc that they were both celebrities Rihanna is still a Human Being for God's sakes.

Plus I'm so emotional at this discussion is because my mother went through domestic violence twice with 2 dfferent guys when I was a little and I got caught in the crossfire and looking at those horrible pictures of the aftermath of Rihanna's abuse made me disgusted at that bastard.

The fact that they let him out back into the public with his career pisses me the hell off. If he was a normal Joe he would be crucified at the stake as if it was freaking Salem or some shit.

 

[Taake]

...But here's the thing that bugs me about this case, and about violence in general. If a man hits a woman, he's automatically the villain. "No man should EVER hit a woman", people cry. But, IMO, nobody should hit anybody period. There are numerous amounts of cases where the wife (or girlfriend) is the abuser of her partner, yet if a man speaks up about his abuse, he's viewed as a coward by society for "being weak", or for not "controlling her better"

You know I kind of see where you're going with this (I think) but the Rihanna/Chris Brown affair you mentioned and in the way you mentioned it throws me off. Basically I feel like you're saying that is not right, and hypocritcal to villainize men for abusing women whereas when the roles are reversed women are not villanized in that same way.

But the solution to this is not to stop condemning people like Chris Brown for what he did (the video posted by Cast No Shadow sums up my feelings about him pretty much), but to try to give equal light to the fact that women can be abusers as well (I know [MENTION=8557]Skytteflickan88[/MENTION] has raised some interesting points concerning this when it comes to Btvs e.g.)


This:

yet if a man speaks up about his abuse, he's viewed as a coward by society for "being weak", or for not "controlling her better

honestly shocks me. People really react that way? Or is that the perception men have? Cause I can't imagine that reaction from anyone to be honest, except possibly some very narrow-minded people.

No abuse is ok, violence against another human being (or animal) is always a travesty and in no case is it "more" or "less" wrong depending on gender. The stigma of domestic abuse caused to men might be something we as a society need to work on but for that to happen we need brave role models who will stand up for their cause... if we think about it it's really not that long ago since women started standing up for their case in the matter. So I sincerely do hope that we will see an equality of judgement between the sexes here, because personally I can't imagine thinking that anyone thinks it's 'okay' to abuse a man or a woman. The fact that one is more publicised is not really a fault of the victims.

 

[Sweet J]

The reason why people say ''never hit a woman'' is because as perfectly demonstrated in the ''Why can she slap'' video - when a woman hits a man, the man usually becomes enraged and as much as I love Buffy, and don't want to admit it, in real life, most women can't take care of themselves.*
The man doesn't generally reciprocate in kind with an equally measured punch or slap, he usually hits much harder. Furthermore, as depicted in the 'why can she slap' video the man steps forward for what could have been a potential second strike, if the guy didn't have hundreds of people to deal with.

In the case of an altercation like that of the 'why can she slap' video, where the mans life was not at all in danger, he would have been far better off to say something like - ''well thanks hun, I'll see you in court''. After which time he would have pillaged her bank booty for all its worth.

The only time it's acceptable to hit a woman is when your life's in danger if you don't.


*Someone mentioned earlier that when people say ''don't hit women'' they are undermining them and making women out to be kids?
Well in a way they are, a lot of woman are in the weight and height range of young adolescent males. From a purely physical standpoint, when the weight and height difference is massive, you shouldn't engage in wanton combat, because you're likely to kill them. That's why Boxing doesn't allow Super Heavyweights fight Bantamweight fighters.

In most male and female fights the difference is akin to Mohammad Ali fighting someone like Jonathan Levinson from buffy.

Don't get me wrong, some women could take a lot of guys I know, but as a rule of thumb, I think ''don't hit women'' is a virtuous axiom to live by.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

honestly shocks me. People really react that way? Or is that the perception men have? Cause I can't imagine that reaction from anyone to be honest, except possibly some very narrow-minded people.

It's not that much about people saying this (even though some jerks do) it's about the subconsciencely thinking it, without meaning to. We try not to let stereotypes get to us, but they do. And men are often called strong, while women are kind and so on. We know it isn't necassarily true, but it's what at the back of a lot of people's minds.

It's also the fact that we today are so focus on unvictimicing women, we forget that men can be victims too.

 

[david4wt]

The only time it's acceptable to hit a woman is when your life's in danger if you don't.

The only time it's accetable to hit someone is when your life's in danger if you don't. And it must be proportionate. You can't shoot someone because he punched you.

 

[PassionBecoming]

No, any type of violence should not be condone toward either sex. I think it's seen as more serious when it's a woman getting hurt by a man because generally a man is bigger, stronger, and can do more damage than a woman could to a man.

As for Chris Brown, I'm with Miranda 100% on this one. That also goes for pretty much any other convicted felon that is still in a place of celebrity/power. (Sports figures, singers, etc.) If you broke the law, especially if you are violent towards other people/animals, you should not be placed on a pedestal in any way. It's good to forgive, then move on, but not to forget what these people did. I don't care if they have talent, they have no morals and little or no regard for other human beings.

This is something that always gets my goat. :/

 

[kittenpoker]

But in general, as a separate issue, it is a big problem that men feel they can't speak out or get help when a woman attacks them. The stigma surrounding men hitting women comes from the fact that men are biologically stronger than women; the notion of a person hitting someone who is, in all likelihood weaker,(though of course there are exceptions) is what people have a visceral reaction to. But that doesn't mean that women have the right to hit or assault men without consequence.

Right, this. Exactly. It's a visceral reaction that I have that I don't think I would have so automatically the other way around...

Leaving real physical abuse aside for a moment and just thinking about slapping.... If a man slapped a woman across the face - yeah I would get that (ugh) sensation in my gut like (NO WRONG BAD) but in movies women slap men across the face all the time and I don't have the same reaction.

But it is horrible when for any reason someone being abused feels shamed into silence!!