Mutiny of 'Buffy'

[Xin Rong]

Series 7 it was hers, well most of it was i think and if it wasnt she is still more powerful than buffy- i still think buffy should take up magic because she like willow has a powerful mind and isnt that whats mainly needed for being a witch!!! oh yeah if willows is borrowed power then i guess even though is borrowed she still has more power than buffy

 

[Mesektet Ra]

Well, gee, I kinda love you guys for bringing this up.

First off, I honestly don't think Buffy was Chosen to recieve the power because she was the best. It's hard to tell what kind of girl will get the power. She was just lucky, like Anya said. There were a ton of Potientals when Buffy was Chosen too, it's likely to assume. So, Buffy just the power because she was lucky, not better.

I think Buffy getting kicked out was something she needed. She needed to be knocked down a peg or three. I get the fact that she's the Slayer, she was has to make decisions that gage peoples lives and stuff, but...I have a theory. I think she put herself in a place where that ultimate outcome became 'General von Summers'.

She's the Slayer, she's the strong one who has to kill the baddies and blahblahbiddyblah. And having friends makes her a unique Slayer, right? So why did the opinons of all her friends never make any difference? I mean, damn, even Slayers need a second opinion. She chose to be in solitude, when it didn't have to be that way. So, she has superpowers. Right. That doesn't make her equipped to handle these types of things on her own. I think a lot of her struggle is attributed to the fact that she made herself be alone, when all she had to do to open herself up to her friends. She automatically assumed no one would understand a 'Slayer problem', and maybe that wasn't the case, if she just talked to someone about it.

The bottom line is, the decision to go back to the vineyard was a stupid one. Seriously. Look at what happened before. She's pretty much saying, "Hey, let's go get ourselves killed because I want a shiny new toy and I don't have any plan whatsoever." The least she could've done is come up with a plan. And when Buffy is doing something stupid, far be it for anyone to dissuade her. Because she's THE Slayer. She's frickin' omipotent. And what I don't like more is the fact that the Scoobs her doing something they thought was right, and he get punished for it. It irks me to no end.

Like LadyLavina said, why can't they question authority when they don't agree with it?

 

[SlayerThe]

First off, I honestly don't think Buffy was Chosen to receive the power because she was the best. It's hard to tell what kind of girl will get the power. She was just lucky, like Anya said. There were a ton of Potentials when Buffy was Chosen too, it's likely to assume. So, Buffy just the power because she was lucky, not better.

I completely disagree.

Without choosing a capable girl, any lunatic could receive the power. Most people in the world would not sacrifice their lives like Buffy, Faith, Kendra and other countless slayers.

These girls are chosen not only by their genetics but by their heart. Most of us are to selfish to put others before ourselves, but not slayers. Which is why they are slayers. Brave and selfless are those who are chosen.

And though Anya may be cute, quirky and sometimes very insightful, I doubt that we are to take her words as the all-knowing source about slayers.

I think Buffy getting kicked out was something she needed. She needed to be knocked down a peg or three. I get the fact that she's the Slayer, she was has to make decisions that gage peoples lives and stuff, but...I have a theory. I think she put herself in a place where that ultimate outcome became 'General von Summers'.

But didn't Buffy have the most experience? Having any other Scooby as the leader (with the possible exception of Giles) would be like the blind leading the blind.

As much as I hate to say it, it was her war. The rest of them chose to be there. The potentials needed her for security reasons and the Scoobies were there because they are good, decent people willing to sacrifice their lives for the greater cause. She was the one chosen to fight this battle and the First Evil sought her out.

She's the Slayer, she's the strong one who has to kill the baddies and blahblahbiddyblah. And having friends makes her a unique Slayer, right? So why did the opinions of all her friends never make any difference? I mean, damn, even Slayers need a second opinion. She chose to be in solitude, when it didn't have to be that way. So, she has superpowers. Right. That doesn't make her equipped to handle these types of things on her own. I think a lot of her struggle is attributed to the fact that she made herself be alone, when all she had to do to open herself up to her friends. She automatically assumed no one would understand a 'Slayer problem', and maybe that wasn't the case, if she just talked to someone about it.

Did you ever think she step backed away from the group because she knew what would happen? Buffy herself said that most of the potentials were not likely to survive. Buffy was guarding her emotions and not allowing herself to get attached. And it is not wise for the leader to become too emotional attached to her constituents. Granted she could have made an effort to get to know them, but ultimately it was her decision.

And no other living person, with the exception of Faith, knew what it was like to be her. As much as you want to understand someone else's pain, you really can't grasp it until you have been in their shoes. None of the other Scoobies knew what it was like to have the weight of the world on their shoulders since they were 15.

The bottom line is, the decision to go back to the vineyard was a stupid one. Seriously. Look at what happened before. She's pretty much saying, "Hey, let's go get ourselves killed because I want a shiny new toy and I don't have any plan whatsoever." The least she could've done is come up with a plan. And when Buffy is doing something stupid, far be it for anyone to dissuade her. Because she's THE Slayer. She's frickin' omnipotent. And what I don't like more is the fact that the Scoobs her doing something they thought was right, and he get punished for it. It irks me to no end.

Like LadyLavina said, why can't they question authority when they don't agree with it?

Actually Faith's decision to go underground and search for the First's stash was far more dumb. And Buffy DID have plans. She had the potentials divided into groups and didn't take the majority of them in with her at first. Her plan was far more successful than Faith's. And Faith endangered a lot more potentials than Buffy.

It is really odd that the Scoobies would throw her out for taking action. Without Buffy they would have sat around and waited to die.

And re-watch "Dirty Girls", right before lover boy Spike pulls Buffy off Caleb, she was actually kicking his butt. Her emotions were high and she was fighting well. Just had to put that in because she might have actually been able to accomplish something in "Dirty Girls" if not for Spike pulling her off.

 

[Mesektet Ra]

I completely disagree.

Without choosing a capable girl, any lunatic could receive the power. Most people in the world would not sacrifice their lives like Buffy, Faith, Kendra and other countless slayers.

These girls are chosen not only by their genetics but by their heart. Most of us are to selfish to put others before ourselves, but not slayers. Which is why they are slayers. Brave and selfless are those who are chosen.

See, I honestly doubt that.

I think that what we've seen evidenced before on the show, like Buffy's resistance to death in the first season and the fact that Dana was frickin' insane, shows that those whore are Chosen are not exactly the most stand-up people in the world. People like Buffy are rare, even for Slayers. If you want to take the Tales of the Slayers book series into account, [I tend to think of the novels as an offshoot of the series, and I know everyone doesn't think along the same lines], then that's ever further evidenced by India and Beryl, and countless others. [Don't hate on my nerdiness.] I just think that the choosing is random. You never know whta kind of girl will get the power.

Sorry to go so off-topic, but I just had to say that.

 

[SlayerThe]

See, I honestly doubt that.

I think that what we've seen evidenced before on the show, like Buffy's resistance to death in the first season and the fact that Dana was frickin' insane, shows that those whore are Chosen are not exactly the most stand-up people in the world. People like Buffy are rare, even for Slayers. If you want to take the Tales of the Slayers book series into account, [I tend to think of the novels as an offshoot of the series, and I know everyone doesn't think along the same lines], then that's ever further evidenced by India and Beryl, and countless others. [Don't hate on my nerdiness.] I just think that the choosing is random. You never know whta kind of girl will get the power.

Sorry to go so off-topic, but I just had to say that.

The Tales of the Slayer stories are not considered as canon, such as India. Stories that are not approved or associated with Joss are like fan-fiction, written by writers who give their own perspective on the chosen.

You're using Buffy's not wanting to die in Season 1 against her? Pardon me, but even the bravest of creatures are not always happy when they hear that they will soon die.

I think it's pretty evident that slayers are predestined and that they are chosen on their soul. Why else would they fulfill their sacred duty?

And although Dana may have been a bit psychotic, who is to say she isn't a great slayer? Faith went through some rough times, but in the end she was a true hero. Kendra, Xin Rong and Nikki fought bravely until the end.

With each slayer we've come across, we have heard of compassion and selflessness.

It's arguable that any person given superpowers could become noble, but I don't buy that. There are so many that misuse their power and others who lack the judgement and clarity to do what is right.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

Just to clarify, Dana wasn't "Chosen", she was activated...

 

[Mesektet Ra]

Alright, I think I have my head on straight now. Let's have a go, shall we?

I still think she pulled herself away on purpose from the Potientals, from everyone. Because the fact that they might die, the fact that she might die, I think, is more of a reason for her to want to connect with these people, touch their lives in more than a commanding general-type way. And I understand why she might want to pull away, not connect, because if she does, she might lose them. But, I think, in the long run, that's not the point. Because knowing those girls, knowing her friends, and being able to touch them in some sort of way, is the ultimate reward. They might die, but they'll die with the knowledge that they had a guide, a savior, not a general. I just don't think the way Buffy was acting was a way in which she was going to be remembered for her heart.

And I wasn't saying that Faith was a better choice, either. I might love the girl dearly, but she's not exactly leader material. Maybe a few years down the road, but not now. And she was new to the whole leader-deal, so you've gotta cut the girl some slack. We all know what was going through her mind while she was devising the whole plan..."What would Buffy do?"

I think Buffy is a fantastic leader, but I think she gets caught up in herself, and the whole being a Slayer and being the leader and the general or what have you. But she has to realize that these are people, and as much as she doesn't want to get involved with them, get to know them, she is leading them. She could do it with some compassion, maybe. I know that if she took maybe three seconds to look at all the girls around her and say, "Hey, I know what you feel, I've been there," that whole 'Empty Places' deal would never have happened. But either way, I think that this time is evident of many others that she doesn't take the other people into consideration, when maybe she should.

If I think any more, my brain is going to fall out of my skull. Later.

 

[LadyLavinia]

Two people are to blame for Buffy's "General von Buffy" persona, this season. One is Giles. He never really bothered to train her in being a leader or in tactics/strategy. And it was his ranting in "First Date" that led Buffy to act like a horse's ass for the next several episodes. The other is Buffy for using Giles as an example of responsibility and leadership in the first place. Considering her dislike and past suspicions about the Watchers' Council, why would she think that acting like the WC would make her an effective leader?

One more thing I would like to say. I think that Faith had just as much potential to be a leader, as Buffy. Her actions in "Touched" proved it. However, like Buffy, she had no strategic or tactical experiences. And it showed. Both Slayers had led the Potentials to defeat or near defeat in both "Dirty Girls" and in "Touched"/"End of Days".

 

[THE BLUE]

Buffy admits she had a superiority complex earlier in the season, but in 'Empty Spaces' Anya says Buffy thinks she's better than anyone else and everyone else backs her up.

My question is: why shouldn't Buffy think this?

Look back; for seven years, Buffy has been told that she is the only one that can save the world, defeat the evil, etc, etc. So she finally starts to believe it and they call her on it? The hypocrisy of the characters rose to a high point in that episode and really infuriated me.

It was the normal Anya babbling. She was never part of the group. She was not even an ally. And she talks about being lucky? Ironic, she would have been dead long ago if she didn't choose to become a demon. A vengeance demon. And she was getting her revenge from Buffy for she is the reason that Anya failed as a vengeance demon (The Wish episode)

However, I did have problems with how the Scoobies turned their backs on Buffy - especially Giles and Dawn.

Dawn's teachery was because of Joyce/The First was messing with her head. And also she was not really a family to Buffy; she was only her responsibility. And there is a firm line between being a family and a responsibility. And that episode proved that no one is really Buffy's family. They are her responsibilities to protect and save and one bad deed will erase all the good. Xander felt the same because he lost an eye and blamed Buffy for it. She couldn't protect him and that was it. That was the end of all. Giles was not her watcher anymore because he quit being in season 6 and because of the fact that he messed it up, he projected it to Buffy. Willow was in love with Kennedy and as we all well know love makes you do the wacky [Willow's words]The potentails, well, they are strangers and mere children; didn't know how to behave to someone whom their lives depended on. As I stated in a comment to a post; potentials needed to be kicked out and left to death, that would remind them what they are doing in Sunnydale and with the slayer.

 

[Xin Rong]

I think Dawns is treachery but the other scoobs I wouldn't say was betraying. Also buffy wasn't thrown out of her house, she chose to leae rather than stay, because she was no longer leader.

Also just because someone is responsible for you being alive doesn't mean they should control you or that you shouldn't question them. I mean look at hitler he helped Germans get out of recession etc and gain respect but it ended badly in the long run. if my boiss saved me from being hit by a car does he then control my life, should i do everything he asks of me because he is responsible for my being alive. Answer No!!!

Buffy needed to be brought down a peg or two so she could finally realise that she has super powers and stress, but shes not the only one. All of them were stressed. Giles in theory should have been the most stress, he had the hardest job. He had to get to potentials before they died, help to train them, research the first, watch over buffy and co whilst with the knowledge that most of his former colleagues and possible friends have been killed.

Also willow had high stress, she knew her powers would be needed to save the world, but didnt know how and alos had to live with the worry that she may have to be killed if daek willow arose. Again this is only a few months after her true love has died and she is left with the guilt of a mistake she made (killing warren). So buffy isn't the only one with high levels of stress.

I think slayers are chosen randomly because it seems weird that higher powers intervene in such a direct way and how can they ever know who will make the best slayer. I mean look at buffy before she became a slayer, would have you chosen a dozy, blonde bimbo to be a slayer because i wouldn't.

Also someone said earlier that buffy "has done an amazing job, time and time again thwarting evil that no other slayer has." It annoys me when people say this there is no evidence to suggest that buffy is the only slayer to have thwarted so much evil. I mean she beat the first, but it wasn't the first time was it, afterall angel said it had been thwarted before. Meaning its possible that a slayer beat the first before.

Also people who aren't slayers have done way better jobs at fighting evil i.e. the mages from the time of the old ones did a betterjob, i mean they managed to evict the old ones from this world. I like to see buffy do that, she wouldn't stand a chance, no slayer would. It'd be like buffy having a fight with illyria, it would be one sided and illyria would obviously have won.

I would also like to say that I think Giles treatment of buffy was the most justified after the way she treated him, after all he did for her she shuts the door in his face and turns her back on him because he was trying to do something which should have been done by buffy anyway.

Fair enough spike turned out to be useful (not essential) but buffy didnt know that, it was a reckless thing to do leaving spike in the basement when he could g crazy at any time and kill the potentials afterall buffy wasn't always there to protect them was she

 

[LadyLavinia]

The bottom line is, the decision to go back to the vineyard was a stupid one.

Actually, it really wasn't. Let me explain.

When Buffy first declared her intentions of returning to the vineyard, all hell broke loose, as everyone freaked out and turned on Buffy. Looking back on that episode, I realized that Buffy never really had the chance to lay out a plan to infiltrate or attack the vineyard, and find out what Caleb was hiding or protecting, due to everyone's reaction. And why did they react in that manner? Because their defeat in "Dirty Girls" had scared them senseless. They had allowed their fear of Caleb and their resentment toward Buffy (in which they had good cause) to get the best of them. Just as Buffy had allowed her mistrust and resentment of Giles (due to his actions in "Lies My Parents Told Me") to ignore his sound advice in "Dirty Girls".

In the end, Buffy was proven right about the vineyard, considering she managed to get her hands on the scythe. However, the others (mainly the Potentials) were still right to turn their backs on Buffy, due to her treatment of them.

When you come across situations like this when there are two sides to a conflict, sometimes there are no true or clear-cut answers. Hey, that's life.

 

[Xin Rong]

Also it turned ot to be the right thing to do anyway because afterall buffy got the scythe on her own

 

[drtroy]

Yeah, I think she did have some kind of super hero complex..like xander had said..well its beause she did have to save everyone all the time. She was one of the best slayers..and outlived nearly all of them..not just because of the scoobies, but because of her talent..plus ah crap i forgot what i was gonna say..well anyways yeah the plan wasn't the best one...but why hadn't anyone else thought of a plan?

Why did they complain about her HERO complex..when all they did was sit and complain?

 

[drtroy]

oh I remember now Buffy was completely selfless...yeah she didn't let people in..because she couldn't they couldn't under the burden, and the inner torment of being a slayer..she died twice, she flatlined, she saved the world a few times, she gave up the one thing she loved Angel..she was use to solving most of the problems and killing whatever evil lurked.. because she had to do it..so these potentials pissed me off with that complaining from day one..

yet not one of them could actually kill a bringer..ubervamp..and not one of them thought of an idea..a solution nothing...

also buffy was kicked out..they asked her to leave..she didnt have much of a choice...

 

[drtroy]

I meant to say couldn't bear the burden* but it wont let me edit it.

 

[Kimm]

I think the way she was treated by the potentials was disrespectful and shameful.

Buffy had saved the entire world like how many times by then?? If it weren't for her then nobody would be alive. I was appalled at Dawn....if someone took their own life to save me I wouldn't be so quick to turn on them like that.....but then I've always thought Dawn was a spoiled little brat anyway.

I agree with those of you who say Buffy is better than other people. She has proven this to be true time and again. She is the slayer....enough said. :flower3:

 

[Wanabee-slayer]

I just watched that episode and felt like ripping the heads off each and evryone of those people who got up Buffy. Of course Buffy thinks she's better then them she is. Despite what Anya says it's got nothing to do with lick (how could losing your life to your job be lucky?) slayer or not Buffy the kindest out of them all despite what she's been through.

 

[drtroy]

I don't understand...of course anyone would have a complex..everyone is TELLING you..your the one..your the slayer..you have to protect them....you have to do this that..She was just so use to doing everything herself, and being in charge..I don't think she felt she was better than anyone..but was so use to doing it "her way"..plus not one of those idiots offered an idea. Plus I do not think it was necessary for any of the slayers to mouth off either.. That just added to problem..even more.. They complained about not having any control..or choice..Then as soon as Buffy leaves they look to Faith..for all the answers..and yet again..they do not offer one simple friggin solution.
I mean c'mon..

I can see why that part of Buffy annoyed you..it reminds me a lot of the Five For Fighting song.."Superman". I think it sums up Buffy's position pretty well.


It's not easy to be me
Wish that i could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home i'll never see

It may sound absurd...but don't be naive
Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed...but won't you concede
Even heroes have the right to dream
It's not easy to be me


I'm only a man in a silly red sheet
Digging for kryptonite on this one way street
Only a man in a funny red sheet
Looking for special things inside of me

 

[drtroy]

Everyone expected so much of her. They expected her to be perfect in some aspects to always have a solution..to always solve the problem..because they looked to her for guidance..for their strength..and when she didn't have it..bascially they freaked out.

 

[LadyLavinia]

Just to clarify, Dana wasn't "Chosen", she was activated...

So was Buffy, back in L.A. So were Faith, Kendra and other Slayers.

also buffy was kicked out..they asked her to leave..she didnt have much of a choice...

She reaped what she had sowed.