Not Fade Away: Did You Like It?

[Sweetescape]

I loved NFA yes as people have said the Black Thorn was rushed,with the time Joss and Co had left i think they came up with the best ending possible. They was some truly beautiful moment's "do you want me to lie to you now" that seriously nearly got me baling my eyes out!

 

[itsxpaperdoll]

Considering the circumstances, it was a good episode. It was a bit random, but not in a bad way. The Black Thorn thing was a bit rushed, but they handled it well. There were some good fights in there, and some good drama. Lindsey being killed was a bit strange, and it sort of came out of nowhere, but that was just like everything else in s5, really.

 

[zoelee]

i loved this episode, the way they all went bk to there roots gunn and the streets, lorne singing spike drinking and reading. angel connecting with connor ok not his roots but still. i didnt like the way lindsay was killed.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

In general, I loved it. The Blackthorn thing was rushed, but when you know the circumstances it's understandable. A wonderful little pull together of a lot of seemingly random enemies.

Actually it was revealed that from the beginning Joss & David had planned for S5 to end in the alley with the demons rushing at them and Angel closing it by saying something along the lines of, "let's go to work."

They wanted S6 to open up in HelLA.

The only difference that I recall Joss talking about was that he & Alexis only chose to kill off Wes because they knew the show wasn't coming back (and Boreanaz wouldn't do non-theatrical Movies).

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Actually it was revealed that from the beginning Joss & David had planned for S5 to end in the alley with the demons rushing at them and Angel closing it by saying something along the lines of, "let's go to work."

They wanted S6 to open up in HelLA.

The only difference that I recall Joss talking about was that he & Alexis only chose to kill off Wes because they knew the show wasn't coming back (and Boreanaz wouldn't do non-theatrical Movies).

Really? It seemed so rushed... That's kind of dissapointing if it's true. I don't think the original plan could have been to have the Blackthorn stuff come out of nowhere quite like that.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Really? It seemed so rushed... That's kind of dissapointing if it's true. I don't think the original plan could have been to have the Blackthorn stuff come out of nowhere quite like that.

I felt that too... I'll grab the quote.
[br][/br]
Edit:
[br][/br]
David Fury on "Not Fade Away"

FURY: Again, we had planned this [Not Fade Away] very early on. The basic idea was to discover who the architects of the apocalypse were and then were going to do this Godfather-like massacre where all of our characters were going to go killing each of them, and the last beat of the episode would be Angel and whoever was left of his crew about to launch into the apocalypse. You know, "Let's go, let's move…whatever."

My thought on that is, that's the perfect way to end the show. The point of Buffy was always girl power and showing that power. The point of Angel was always that the fight never ends. He'll always fight. It's an eternity of fighting. You can't ever win but the fight is worth fighting. That was a perfect 'going out' scene - you know, the Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid sort of we're going up against impossible odds and probably die? That's the perfect way to end the series, and anybody who says otherwise is dumb.

Any proper resolution of, "Oh, we've defeated the demons, they've gone back to hell, let's get a beer," just would have been absolutely wrong for that show.

Fury on Season 6

FURY: The really cool thing about Season 6, we knew how Season 5 was going to end very early on and we knew what it was going to launch into with Season 6, which was a post-apocalyptic show [and] which I thought was going to be great. It was going to be Angel in The Road Warrior, which I thought would be awesome. In the ruined city of LA or out in the desert or something, it was just going to be kind of a really cool, different, show.

Joss on Wes' death, NFA, S6 & AtF

JW: I never would have killed Wesley if we hadn't been canceled. [Laughs.] I decided how I wanted to end the season before we were canceled, and I wanted to end it exactly that way while it was still in question. Which was, we're going out in mid-battle, because if we come back, we have something to come back from. If we don't come back, then this is how I want it.

With Buffy, I needed closure, because she, poor girl, had earned it. Buffy is about growing up. Angel is really about already having grown up, dealing with what you've done, and redemption. Redemption is something you fight for every day, so I wanted him to go out fighting.

[...]

[The cancellation] didn't affect, with the exception of the untimely death of young Wesley, where we were going with it. But we did have an idea. The miniseries is called Angel: After The Fall. It is much huger in scope, and Brian has brought a lot of new ideas to the table. It is oddly more like what we had planned for season six than Buffy: Season Eight is.

[Killing off Wes] was awesome. The writers pitched it, with Illyria turning into Fred, and I was like, "Uh, okay, we have to do that, really, now." You squeeze all the juice out that you can. That was one of my favorite moments that we shot. If you're going to go out, go out hard. If you just go, "Well, off to another mystery. Here we are, arm in arm," that ain't an ending.

[...]

If we had suddenly been given a reprieve, there would not have been a single episode without Wesley in it, dead or not. He'd have been given an eleventh-hour stay of execution. That has to do with my love of Wesley, and let's face it, my love of Alexis Denisof, who is, apart from being a dream to work with, staggeringly versatile.

[...]

had we had a season six, it would have picked up right where season five ended, because I knew what I planned to have happen right after that battle. If nobody ever found out what I had planned, then we were going out with the statement that life is a battle. And love, sidebar, is a battlefield. But had they given us an 11th-hour reprieve, we absolutely would have picked up right there. After The Fall should give you a glimpse into what we were planning to do about that battle.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Well. That sucks. We had a whole season of sitting around looking at Spike tell jokes when they knew that they were going to pull Blackthorn on us? That's just poor storytelling. Not Fade Away was still a good episode, but I'm going to be much less likely to overlook S5's structural flaws in the future.

Thanks for the quote.

I think.

 

[Senior Watcher]

i like NFA. too bad the comics didnt follow up with the same great writing. *braces for slaps from other board members*

i do feel that the story line may have been rushed alittle, but in all honesty, i liked how it flowed.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Well. That sucks. We had a whole season of sitting around looking at Spike tell jokes when they knew that they were going to pull Blackthorn on us? That's just poor storytelling. Not Fade Away was still a good episode, but I'm going to be much less likely to overlook S5's structural flaws in the future.

Thanks for the quote.

I think.

Well Fury addresses S5's erraticness in that same interview:

Jeff Bell and I pretty much mapped out a season where we could see how it would work and we were planning on doing that but once Joss came into the mix Joss put his own mark on it and when he put his own mark in it, unfortunately, it blew a lot of our stuff out of the water. So, there might be some erratic quality to it but to suggest we were lazy is crazy.

Here's the whole thing if you're interested: MEANWHILE Interviews... Buffy Post Mortem

 

[marukisu2]

I felt it was very rushed imo and did alot in one episode if they were endding the show. they should have included the part where freds parents came back but scrapped the whole idea of Spike and Angel searching for Buffy and replaced it with Angel making his move on W&H. and then had one extra epsiode to deliver a two part finale, that provided closure to a certian extent. it always makes me sad to see the end because there technically is one. even if it asnt happy i would have prefered closure. (In TV format mind you..)

 

[Spuffy4l87]

I loved it. It was extremely well done. Each character got the day to themselves and that for me was the closure I wanted for them. The ability to get the chance to do what they wanted to do. Gunn helping out Anne, Spike finally getting to say his poetry without ridicule, Angel getting the chance to acutally have some what of a normal moment with his son and fight at his side, and then Wesley dying knowing that he was going to Fred. All these things made the episode so much more powerful to me. They each got their own battles to face and then reunite to fight along side eachother.

Sure, I was a little upset with just being left off at the end, but at the same time I wouldn't have it any other way. For me it was that their battle never ends, there is no end because they are just going to keep fighting, fighting till they are dead because that is what they do. They help people. In away that is what I took from it. I don't read the comics as I felt that both shows ended on a great note. I would have loved to know what happens, but at the same I don't because Joss gave us the opportunity to decide what happens after. Thus, Spike survives and finds Buffy 🙂

 

[EvilWillow77]

As for the fact that Lorne killed Lindsey, and a lot of ppl seem to feel he had no reason: I felt that Lorne's final statement to Lindsey cleared it up. "I've heard you sing," to me said it all. I mean, knowing that Lorne is an empath means that hearing him sing would inherently give him an insight that we didn't necessarily have. Lorne has always been morally ambivalent, so he doesn't always share what he knows. It's kind of like a priest keeping to himself what he learns in a confessional. So, we don't know what he learned upon hearing Lindsey's song. I'll admit the song made me weep...because it was unexpectedly beautiful (IMHO!!) but still, we have no idea what an empath demon would have gleaned from it. So, to sum it up, I feel like Lorne, while he OBVIOUSLY had intense distaste for his final task, did have his reasons. I think that by NOT explaining it, the deed was made that much more powerful.

 

[Aiysha]

I enjoyed the episode however wesley shouldnt have died he was one of my fave characters i was real upset🙁, i liked the idea of each character going against a demon from the black thorn and thought it was good how they fitted connor into the last episode with him fighting with angel i thought that was good. Im so glad spike didnt die i couldnt go through with it again haha 🙂 it was upsetting the first time in buffy.

 

[Senior Partner]

I thought it was a good episode and liked the slight ambiguity of the ending, and even liked the fact they went out fighting, but, for me, there was one crucial element that overshadowed the whole episode (and because of that, the whole damn season). Why, oh why did Wesley have to die? It would have been much more fitting for him to have been fighting shoulder to shoulder with Angel at the close. Somehow the fact that neither Wes nor Cordelia were at his side made this seem more likley that Angel was ultimately not intended to survive either.

I think Wesley was the strongest and most interesting of the characters and by killing him off just before the finale they took away the choice for the viewer to decide what happened to him after the credits began to roll, and yet they left Gunn, Spike, Illyria, Lorne and Angel to the imagination. I know Joss Whedon said that had the series got a last minute reprieve then Wes would have got a stay of execution, but they didn't, so this is cold comfort. For anyone who thinks it was kinder to send Wes off to be with Fred, that was not going to happen either, as Illyria quite specifically asks him if he wants her to lie to him. He says yes, and that's when she tells him he'll be with Fred and that she's waiting for him etc.

So I am more than a bit peeved that Wesley seems to have got shafted even in his death scene 🙁

Somehow, knowing how it will turn out for him, makes it harder to enjoy the previous seasons cos you kind of know it has all been for nothing in the end 🙁

Maybe that was the point - that it was all pointless - but if so, it's a crappy one.

---------- Post added at 09:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 AM ----------

As for the fact that Lorne killed Lindsey, and a lot of ppl seem to feel he had no reason: I felt that Lorne's final statement to Lindsey cleared it up. "I've heard you sing," to me said it all. I mean, knowing that Lorne is an empath means that hearing him sing would inherently give him an insight that we didn't necessarily have. Lorne has always been morally ambivalent, so he doesn't always share what he knows. It's kind of like a priest keeping to himself what he learns in a confessional. So, we don't know what he learned upon hearing Lindsey's song. I'll admit the song made me weep...because it was unexpectedly beautiful (IMHO!!) but still, we have no idea what an empath demon would have gleaned from it. So, to sum it up, I feel like Lorne, while he OBVIOUSLY had intense distaste for his final task, did have his reasons. I think that by NOT explaining it, the deed was made that much more powerful.

I agree 100%. Infact, of all the characters, (with the exception of Wes, of course), Lorne was the one who got to me the most in the final episode. Over the course of the storylines there are many indications that the violence of the 'Angelverse' is really getting to him. Being an empath demon this was probably like being emotionally poisoned. When he says that he will do this one last task but won't be joining the survivors behind the hotel, I totally understood. His final task was one step too far for him personally, he had reached the end of his endurance, but he did this one last task for his friends because they needed him to play the part, and he knew something about Lindsey that made it necessary.

Lorne didn't belong around death and destruction, so the fact he even raised the gun was a sacrifice on his part.

 

[RazzTheKid]

I finally got around to watching this episode and I thought it was pretty great although I absolutley HATED the ending. It makes me want to spend money that I don't have on the After The Fall comics!
It was great to see Connor back in this episode since he's my favourite character and it was especially great to see him helping Angel out. Wes's death was an amazing yet sad scene. Oh and I didn't even realise that Gunn had actually died untill I read it on here!
Apart from the ending, the only other thing I didn't like about this episode was Lindsey's death, it was so random and pointless.

 

[clemsgirlfriend]

I seem to be in a real minority feeling like Not Fade Away gave me more closure than Chosen as a series finale. In Not Fade Away, after watching it, i got the sense of - they will keep fighting the good fight until they die, and we keep on fighting throughout life for what is important to us. I felt like the show answered the question of what they would be doing from then on. When i watched Chosen, i got the sense of 'life has many possibilities', but also that we don't know what Buffy will chose to do with life next, of the many possibilities out there - in other words, more of a "cliffhanger" than Not Fade Away, for me. I guess from reading the opinions on here that it is a minority opinion. ::huh1::

 

[Bluebird]

I loved it. Even the ending, which a lot of people don't seem to like. 😛 The slow build up to the big fight was great, getting to see each character's way of dealing with what may be their last day. The Wes and Illyria scenes were my favourite.

 

[sharona1981]

It's one of those episodes that improves with repeated viewing. I hated EVERYTHING about 'NFA' the first time I watched it-the characterisation, the ending, everything. But now I quite like it. There is, however, one little aspect of the episode that I still hate-the treatment of Lorne and Lindsey. I don't think Angel had any justifiable reason to have Lindsey killed-for all he knew, maybe he was on the level. But, to order the one guy on his team who absolutely deplored violence, to become a murderer...sorry, but that just made me hate Angel. And I never thought I'd hate Angel. Oh, and Wesley's death...that bugged the hell out of me, too. That little scene with him and Ilyria/Fred was very touching, though.

 

[Perny]

I sobbed so much...I loved it. It was a kickarse ending to the show.

Oh and Lorne killing Lindsey...WOW Did not see that coming

 

[mcwitty]

I loved it but I felt there was so much left unsaid which made it a truly heartbreaking ending... which was probably the point.