Article Obama announces Osama bin Laden killed by U.S.

[goodbyetonight]

Guess I'm in the minority. I'm absolutely ecstatic that he died, and I have no problem being happy that mass-murdering scum like him is dead. I want to have a party, even. Then again, I live a lot closer to NYC than a lot of people here so it affected me more,

 

[OhWow]

I guess this is a major difference between the way we think about things here... I don't understand this sentence at all. "The point is not that Osama killed our people so we will kill him, it is that he killed innocent people in our country so we will hunt you and kill you because you damn well deserve it." I think he deserved to die, and that in and of itself gives me internal conflict with my core beliefs... But how are those two situations in that sentence two different situations? They're the same. What happened was not a clear equal eye for an eye but it was definitely a form of it. And part of my conflict with myself on this subject is that I'm completely and totally against an eye for an eye, but I don't really honestly feel that upset about this one.

Honestly as I was rereading this it does not make much sense to me either. I was typing really fast and thoughts just kind of poured out, ya know. I am not that eloquent with my words at all. In my head it sounded better than when I just read it aloud. Let me rephrase this:

Okay so Hammurabia's code...I poke your eye out you get to poke mine out. Osama killed thousands of people in fury, hatred, in a terroist attack on NYC. In my view of this code, we would need to pay him back by destroying a major building in Saudi Arabia's most famous city, killing thousands of innocent lives. We killed one evil man. It's not equal clearly. I don't think this is revenge, vengence, or a vendetta against the man. It is business because he was wanted dead or alive. We got him dead, that business is finished. I cannot deny that many Americans grew a hatred for Osama, myself included, but he was a serious threat to our lives. There was no other way to settle this other than taking him out.

I don't know if that confused you more or made my opinion a bit clearer. I am honstly exspecting *disagree*'s and quotes because my opinion was a bit obscured and quite bold especially for me who kind of wanders these boards with little opinion.

As for the situation as a whole I am glad he is dead but terrified of the consequences. In my opinion, world peace is a radical notion, only talked about by women in beauty competitions. War is war and as much as I hate it I know it will always exist. I guess the best thing to do is to listen to my pal Eyedea ( Rap artist ) and realize that, "Agony is truth, it is our connection to the living, I accept it as perfection, and keep on living in the now." 😎

 

[randiann]

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."-- Martin Luther King Jr

I feel disgust. I feel uneasy. I feel upset, and conflict. I am sad and ill at ease. I can only compare it to how I felt when tim mcveigh, the man responsible for 319 of my city's citizens deaths on 4/19/95, was put to death. Not happy by any means. Confused, upset, and with knots in my stomach. Not necessarily at the death of this particular person, but just upset at what he represents, upset that it brings the wounds of old back to life, and upset that we are celebrating death. Do I think it's just? Not in the least. If we are looking for justice, he deserved much more than a quick bullet in the brain. He earned what he got, but I can't be happy with it. The only way I could be happy with this situation is if it never happened, and the thousands of people killed in blood and violence and war had never died. God bless our troops; they do a job I could never perform. God bless those affected by these atrocities because their hearts are heavy with sorrow. And God bless our enemies too; they need our love and forgiveness now more than ever as they will have to face the consequences of their actions one day.

 

[LoveLoveLovix]

white avenger agrees: I don't think that there was anything accidentak invilved in it. Army Special Forces and Navy Seasl generally don't do that sort of thing by accident.

Let me rephrase: my mom accidentally told my grandmother they killed Obama.

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prophecygrrl agrees: oh dear

It caused some real confusion. So funny, though! 😛

 

[arabella]

In the midst of this serious conversation, I just read this on my facebook:

"A woman became a princess and the bad guy died. Weekend inspired by Disney."
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[zobothehobo]

I feel disgust. I feel uneasy. I feel upset, and conflict. I am sad and ill at ease. I can only compare it to how I felt when tim mcveigh, the man responsible for 319 of my city's citizens deaths on 4/19/95, was put to death. Not happy by any means. Confused, upset, and with knots in my stomach. Not necessarily at the death of this particular person, but just upset at what he represents, upset that it brings the wounds of old back to life, and upset that we are celebrating death. Do I think it's just? Not in the least. If we are looking for justice, he deserved much more than a quick bullet in the brain. He earned what he got, but I can't be happy with it. The only way I could be happy with this situation is if it never happened, and the thousands of people killed in blood and violence and war had never died. God bless our troops; they do a job I could never perform. God bless those affected by these atrocities because their hearts are heavy with sorrow. And God bless our enemies too; they need our love and forgiveness now more than ever as they will have to face the consequences of their actions one day.

I have reached my reputation limit... but this. Totally this.

 

[Summerlilly]

A quote from one of my good friends that makes a good point.....

"We should be careful about what we celebrate and what we say. We cannot make a single human the symbol of evil in the world, however convenient that may seem."

 

[Washburne]

Okay so Hammurabia's code...I poke your eye out you get to poke mine out. Osama killed thousands of people in fury, hatred, in a terroist attack on NYC. In my view of this code, we would need to pay him back by destroying a major building in Saudi Arabia's most famous city, killing thousands of innocent lives.

As Zoà« I don't take the expression as literally as you. More a kind of "you did something to us, we'll do something to you" thing. Considering how you see it I totally understand why you disagreed with the expression. You don't have to like the way I see it. It just explains why there were disagreement.

We killed one evil man. It's not equal clearly.

It depends on how you see it I guess. From my point of view it's not true. Osama wasn't even the only one killed at that moment. Not saying these men didn't deserve to die. But to me this wasn't a one man was killed thing.

From the link Kryptonite posted.

In addition to Bin Laden, three men were killed during the 40-minute raid, one believed to be his son and the other two his couriers,

And then we have all victims dying, on both sides, for a decade of searching for him. I'm not trying to get into an argument about how many victims this or that action caused. From what I know it's not equal either. I don't disagree with that. Just trying to explain why I don't agree about just one man being killed.

As for the reason of him being evil and because of that needed to be killed that some say. That's from our persective. So we think it's justified. But once again, there's other perspective. Al Qaida thinks that americans are evil and needs to be killed. Or something like that. I'm not agreeing with that. At all. You think you're right, they think they're right. Sound familiar?

All in all, for me the most important question is if all this in the end will be worth it. That terrorism needs to be fighted is clear. To me. Did we (humans) do it the best way possible. We'll never know since there's if's and but's to go on forever.

my opinion was a bit obscured and quite bold especially for me who kind of wanders these boards with little opinion.

People shouldn't be afraid to post their feelings/opinions so I'm glad you did.

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I hate him for killing so many innocents and ruining lives for so many Muslims who are now seen as terrorists and treated poorly in airports and other places.

The western world so rarely think about what the muslims around go through and have to suffer due to his actions. 🙁

 

[zobothehobo]

Washburne agrees: I'm sorry but it's nice to see something in this thread that make you smile. I wonder how the world would look like if "you're right, we're wrong" was practised. Can you imagine an american or terrorist saying that?

Wow that was quite the typo! I've been doing stuff like that all day.

 

[Washburne]

Anything to brighten the mood is a good thing. 🙂


I think it's better if I stay out of this thread from now on. So if in the strange cause of someone wanting a discussion feel free to use pm. Of course not needed if you just want to comment on how wrong I am. That can be done in the thread. 😉

 

[Taake]

I Was Hitler being killed a good thing? Or would you rather have had him be imprisoned?

He wasn't killed so much as he killed himself. Otherwise he would probably have been imprisoned.

The point is not that Osama killed our people so we will kill him, it is that he killed innocent people in our country so we will hunt you and kill you because you damn well deserve it. It is not childish as people say. It is war and people die.The man deserved to die a horrible death and I am not ashamed to say that I am glad about it.

HisMrs: However, Osama and his followers are pure evil. They cannot be reasoned with; we've seen this. So when reason fails, it comes down to fighting for the greater good. We can either let them live and risk more attacks, or we can fight to kill them until there aren't enough of them left to hurt anyone anymore.

This is the problem as I see it - flip the coin and they see it the opposite way. And because of that they will retaliate... then those afflicted will retaliate... and so it goes in a circle.

I understand people's need to celebrate/feel relief at this but to me it mostly feels like opening a can of worms. A 'what will come next' feeling as we wait to see the aftermath of bin Laden's death and what his followers to do in his wake. :S

As for the I "view him more as a monster than a man" to me that's a dangerous point of view. Because he was a man, just a man, and when it comes down to it just a man was killed. Thousands perhaps are ready to take his place... demonizing one man minimizes the reasons behind his actions (to me it's important to understand why things were done even if you don't agree with it)

I know the war is definitely NOT over... People who just just because Osama Bin Laden is dead, the war is over, need a reality check. You can be sure that his followers will do everything they can to retaliate. 🙁

Yes, this is what I think too. This is far from over. As sad as that is but this was not much more than a cold comfort to those afflicted by his actions and what he represents.

 

[InsaneMystic]

He wasn't killed so much as he killed himself. Otherwise he would probably have been imprisoned.

Only long enough to get sentenced to death by hanging. There's absolutely no doubt that Hitler would have gotten a death sentence at Nuremberg, when so many of his subordinates did... long-term imprisonment was the exception, not the rule. (And yes, I disagree with the death penalty even in that sitch. Watching the presiding judge proclaiming "death by hanging!" over and over, in reply to name after name brings chills to my spine whenever I see the historical footage.)

As for the I "view him more as a monster than a man" to me that's a dangerous point of view. Because he was a man, just a man, and when it comes down to it just a man was killed. Thousands perhaps are ready to take his place... demonizing one man minimizes the reasons behind his actions (to me it's important to understand why things were done even if you don't agree with it)

This, a million times this. It's my pet peeve about the (sadly, abundant) demonization of Hitler - who was not a monster, either. Anyone who says he was is, IMO, playing down the horror of WW2 and the Holocaust, and harmlessizing (is that a word in English?) antisemitism and Nazi ideology... so, effectively, anyone who calles Bin Laden a monster is playing down the horror and danger of Islamist terrorism, too.

 

[charmedones193]

I was a lil shocked when I heard about this. At first I didn't believe it

 

[Ianigsy]

I'm not sure what else to add- if I had more time I'd track down the John Donne quotation about one man's death diminishing us all, but presumably Obama and his advisers felt it was more important to cut off the head of al-Qaeda while they had the opportunity than worry about due process and so on. I didn't realise until I read the paper this morning that bin Laden had been stripped of his Saudi citizenship, so he was effectively a stateless person, and that makes me uncomfortable about US forces going into a second sovereign country to conduct a mission to take somebody out. In fact, I wonder whether part of the point wasn't to put the frighteners on Gaddafi as well.

It also bothers me that when you see people celebrating in the way that they did in New York and Washington yesterday, nobody seems to understand how that plays outside America. A lot of people in the Arab world will see those pictures as reinforcing a lot of what they already think or fear about American foreign policy- that Americans don't see themselves as part of the world community and anybody who stands up to America can expect the same treatment.

 

[Taake]

He wasn't killed so much as he killed himself. Otherwise he would probably have been imprisoned.

Only long enough to get sentenced to death by hanging. There's absolutely no doubt that Hitler would have gotten a death sentence at Nuremberg, when so many of his subordinates did... long-term imprisonment was the exception, not the rule. (And yes, I disagree with the death penalty even in that sitch. Watching the presiding judge proclaiming "death by hanging!" over and over, in reply to name after name brings chills to my spine whenever I see the historical footage.)

Oh yes, I agree. I was bit too quick to push the reply button and accidentally deleted the part where I more or less added to my post what you just wrote about Hitler. I have no doubt that he would have been killed. In fact I feel quite sure that that is the reason to why he killed himself.

Completely agree with the rest of your post as well!

 

[Seeing Red]

People have been talking about this, but I have no idea who this guy is....

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zobothehobo agrees: Really?

Really, I have no idea who this guy is.

 

[zobothehobo]

People have been talking about this, but I have no idea who this guy is....

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 PM ----------


Really, I have no idea who this guy is.

Ok... well he's the leader of the group that set up and executed 9/11 and many other terrorist attacks.

 

[Harley]

I'm not sure what else to add- if I had more time I'd track down the John Donne quotation about one man's death diminishing us all, but presumably Obama and his advisers felt it was more important to cut off the head of al-Qaeda while they had the opportunity than worry about due process and so on. I didn't realise until I read the paper this morning that bin Laden had been stripped of his Saudi citizenship, so he was effectively a stateless person, and that makes me uncomfortable about US forces going into a second sovereign country to conduct a mission to take somebody out. In fact, I wonder whether part of the point wasn't to put the frighteners on Gaddafi as well.

They didnt go in to kill him. They went in to arrest him, he resisted and was killed as a result. Also, Pakistan was given more than their fair share of chances to give him up without anyone going in.
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[sisterofmercy]

They didnt go in to kill him. They went in to arrest him, he resisted and was killed as a result. Also, Pakistan was given more than their fair share of chances to give him up without anyone going in.
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Depending on what you read though, Pakistan didn't know he was there.

 

[Harley]

Depending on what you read though, Pakistan didn't know he was there.

But America and/or other countries were able to find him? I think Pakistan was telling a fib.
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