Oct. 4-Oct 10 Discussion - led by msfantastico87
- Thread starter Buffy Summers
- Start date
msfantastico87
Joann the Goblin Slayer
Topic: What do you think would have happened if Warren missed his shot, or maybe wounded Tara somewhere else, only injuring her?
Episodes to Review: Seeing Red, Villains
Interested to hear your input on this topic peeps 🙂
Episodes to Review: Seeing Red, Villains
Interested to hear your input on this topic peeps 🙂
caitaintdead
Interesting topic. See you on the 4th!
msfantastico87
Joann the Goblin Slayer
Ok everyone. There was more than enough time to watch the given episodes...so lets hear it! 😛
What do you think would have happened if Warren missed his shot on Tara?
What do you think would have happened if Warren missed his shot on Tara?
xfivebyfive
Because its Fate.
I think its insane that he was able to make that shot, he wasn't even aiming up there and yet he manages to get her straight through the heart. I wish he had missed. Willow never would have gone dark, Tara would still be alive. But then again Maybe Buffy would have died? Because Willow went Dark and then saved Buffy in the operating room. She could have died there if it werent for Willow.
VisionGirl
Newly Human
I'm not sure exactly what would've happened, but I think Willow would've gone dark anyway. She had been struggling with her power from very early on (struggling as in, struggling not to give in to it). I don't know if she would've gone dark so soon though. I think it was awesome that it was Xander that saved her, but it would've been equally if not more emotional if it had been Tara. Tara grounded her.
kristin1105
Brittana!
Every time I watch it I try to imagine that Willow pulled Tara away from the window just in time for the bullet to miss. 🙁
Buffy might have died if Tara didn't. If Willow didn't go all evil I'm not sure she would have had the power or will power to remove the bullet and save her.
Buffy might have died if Tara didn't. If Willow didn't go all evil I'm not sure she would have had the power or will power to remove the bullet and save her.
PrincessBuffy16
Scooby
I don't think Dark Willow would've ever happend, and Buffy would probably die on that operating table.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
For of all, very interesting topic, babe! 😀 This one really made me think about it... I still think Willow would have gone dark. Even if Warren hadn't critically wounded Tara, he did critically wound Buffy. I think that would have been enough to still make Willow go on a vengeance trip to try to exact her revenge on him. I don't know if it would have been as extreme as it was, but I do still think she would have gone to a bad place in order to get payback.
I do, though, think it would have changed the entire rest of the series. If Willow hadn't gone as deep as she did into the bad magic, who's to say she would have felt the need to go with Giles to the Coven and learn how to use her magic for such good as she used in "Chosen">
I do, though, think it would have changed the entire rest of the series. If Willow hadn't gone as deep as she did into the bad magic, who's to say she would have felt the need to go with Giles to the Coven and learn how to use her magic for such good as she used in "Chosen">
msfantastico87
Joann the Goblin Slayer
I agree. There is almost no way he could have made that shot in real life. They were on the second floor for crying out loud, and he wasn't aiming too high!
Nice way of looking at it!
Now it seems that most agree that Willow would have gone dark regardless if Tara died or not. Let's assume for a second, that Willow didn't go dark. Buffy and Tara are still alive. What do you think would have happened to the Trio? Do you think Xander would have gotten involved, since Buffy was hurt?
xfivebyfive
Because its Fate.
I dont think Willow would have gone dark. I think it took Taras death to make her go that extreme. I dont think anything else would. Maybe if Tara was wounded critically, she would have even if Tara ended up surviving.
I dont see what Xander could do. The trio was in jail except for Warren. Warren was off bragging at a demon bar. My guess is had Buffy survived she would track him down, beat his butt then drag him off to jail.
I dont see what Xander could do. The trio was in jail except for Warren. Warren was off bragging at a demon bar. My guess is had Buffy survived she would track him down, beat his butt then drag him off to jail.
StarSlayer
Defender of Spuffy
Hmmm, interesting topic 🙂 If Warren missed his shot and Tara didn't die, I actually don't think Willow would have gone evil. She became evil because of a very traumatic event. It brought back all the magic that she was trying to suppress, as well feelings of pain, rage, and vengeance. Combine that with dark magic...well, it's not a good mix.
Sadly, I don't think Xander would have gotten as involved. He was the only person who could save Willow when she went evil because he was able to connect with the human inside of her again. I think Trio would have gone to jail, but Warren would get the longer sentence.
Sadly, I don't think Xander would have gotten as involved. He was the only person who could save Willow when she went evil because he was able to connect with the human inside of her again. I think Trio would have gone to jail, but Warren would get the longer sentence.
Willow would have eventually became evil, I'm sure. They HAD planned from the start to use her as a villain at some point. Also reading some of the posts in here I realized that Tara dying actually saved Buffy... Because if Willow had not went crazy she wouldn't have been able to save Buffy on the operating table. Obviously they'd have used something else to help Buff but whatever!
Also I disagree with you VisionGirl about how it would have been more emotional if Tara had stopped Willow. Xander & Willow had been best friends from a very young age, thus the yellow crayon speech 😀 I wouldn't exchange that scene for ANYTHING. Made season 6 *that* much better!
Also I disagree with you VisionGirl about how it would have been more emotional if Tara had stopped Willow. Xander & Willow had been best friends from a very young age, thus the yellow crayon speech 😀 I wouldn't exchange that scene for ANYTHING. Made season 6 *that* much better!
Wishing Oceans
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msfantastico87
Joann the Goblin Slayer
So you really don't think that Xander would have tried to stop the Trio? I mean Xander had the biggest crush on Buffy. Loved her really. He is very over-protective of Both Willow and Buffy. And you really don't think he would have done anything?
Yes, it took Tara dying for Buffy to be saved. However, don't you think if Tara had not died, they(Tara, Will, and Xander) would have gone to the hospital with Buffy and the two witches could have used their power to remove the bullet anyways?
Thursday
Doing the Dance of Joy
Willow was going to go dark eventually. Tara's death just caused it to happen sooner rather than later. Dramatically it would have been better and more interesting if Tara had lived.
But, I've been wondering if the writers used Tara's death as a way to generate sympathy and provide an excuse for Willow. Because Willow just going crazy evil on her own wouldn't encourage as much audience sympathy as knowing she did it to avenge her lover.
But, I've been wondering if the writers used Tara's death as a way to generate sympathy and provide an excuse for Willow. Because Willow just going crazy evil on her own wouldn't encourage as much audience sympathy as knowing she did it to avenge her lover.
VisionGirl
Love, love, love your banner! What a sad moment. :(
I guess... But I don't think they would have had Warren shoot only Buffy. Like I said in my previous post, they would have done it differently for sure.
Not sure about that... I mean, even if Willow had gone dark by overdosing magic, those who liked her would still do since pretty much every character goes through an 'evil' phase at some point. I might be wrong, but a character going dark doesn't mean peoples stop loving it.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
VERY well said.... I tend to lean toward the 'your right' side on this one. 🙂 It makes me rethink my own theory of what might have happened...
StarSlayer
Defender of Spuffy
Oh, no. I meant his role wouldn't be as significant as it was when he faced dark Willow. He still would have done something. He's part of the Scooby gang. But, with Willow's computer skills and Buffy's fighting abilities, I don't think his role would have been too significant. He probably would throw a few punches at the trio or restrain them when they were found (as he did with Andrew in s7).
---------- Post added at 07:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------
I don't know, I'm still unsure about that. One of the reasons Willow wanted to change and "be clean" of magic was because she loved Tara. After they broke up and she almost killed Dawn, Willow sought to get better. She even refused to do magic in "Older and Far Away" when they were all trapped, and Tara was very proud of her for that.
i thought also about Willow going dark but then I thought about Tara. If Tara was only wounded Tara would have never allowed her to go dark, she would have been able to handle Willow so I agree with StarSlayer's last paragraph. On the other hand Buffy would definitely catch them with Willow and bring them to justice.
I don't think Xander would go all crazy about it, he wouldn't have been happy but I can't see him going all crazy after them... heck I even think Dawn would have a more violent reaction than Xander.
I don't think Xander would go all crazy about it, he wouldn't have been happy but I can't see him going all crazy after them... heck I even think Dawn would have a more violent reaction than Xander.
Thursday
Doing the Dance of Joy
You're right, if a person is really dedicated to a character they'll continue to be even if the character goes "evil", but, I meant that Tara's death allows Willow's actions to be justified. Like an excuse.
The writers had spent the entire season establishing (or continuing) Willow's descent into villainy, so she was going to go evil. Nobody needed to die for Willow to go dark. She was doing just fine on her own. But, I think that if the writers would've just had Willow start randomly killing off jerks like Warren people wouldn't approve. He's a jerk, but that doesn't mean he deserved to die. But, having Willow go crazy after Tara's death and dole out "justice" to the murderer makes people go "Well, it's okay because Warren's a murderer." Even though, it's not okay.
Willow stopped doing magic, but there was no way she was going to keep it up. If you look at Willow's storyline as magic = drugs, then Willow's not going to kick her habit by giving it up cold turkey. Most people can't quit drugs just because they want to, they have to be physically and emotionally weaned off them. If they don't, they could relapse, bad. Such was the case with Willow. As much as the writers wanted to show that Willow was doing the right thing and kicking her habit, she was going to relapse. Tara's death did it. But, it didn't have to be Tara's death. Any emotional issue, big or small, would've caused Willow to retreat back to comfort of magic/drugs.
And, if you look at Willow's storyline as magic abuse being a metaphor for abuse of power, Willow wasn't going to be able to keep that up, either. For Willow to stop abusing magic she would have to realize she was doing it and why. Only by learning why Willow does the things she does would she ever deal with the problem. During S6, Willow realized she was abusing magic, but not the reason why. She only stopped using magic so her friends and her ex-girlfriend would continue to like her. She didn't stop because she thought it was wrong to raise people from the dead or violate your girlfriend---Willow's never expressed that she thought any of those things were actually wrong. And, just because Willow's stopped doing magic doesn't mean she's stopped abusing power. Because she doesn't realize what she's doing is wrong, she would have probably found a non-magical way to do it.
M
msfantastico87
I love how you compare Willow's magic to drug usage! completely agree!
Well they were justified for *most* fans. I still think the whole torture scene was very wrong. I know Warren had it coming and he had so many occasions to go back on a better path but chose not to, but still it felt wrong for Willow to kill him that way. I don't wanna start a whole debate on that( trust me I've had this argument with 25235235 persons already) but there's no justification for killing someone unless it's self-defense.
Like Buffy said in that episode, it's not their roles to decide which human live or die.