Hmmm... That Faith theory could be correct. That would be a cool way to bring her back. Or what if it's the big bad at it again and taking the form of someone who Giles trusts. Perhaps that robed figure with the axe was the Big Bad as Ms. Calendar. Maybe the big bad is Martha Stewart?
Official Discussion for "Sleeper"
- Thread starter IamtheBuffyBot
- Start date
Both explanations work, Spike being the actual killer or just having false memories of killing. In both cases, it's the Big Bad playing with his mind (which could include the chip under some circumstances). And Spike's mind is the easiest to play with at the moment.
But one thing he said struck me: "How could I forget the taste of human blood in my mouth?" As a vampire (and Spike still is one, chip, soul, and all), I don't think downing a beer or borrowing Xander's Listerine would do the trick...
Eternal Darkness
Will death answer?
The ep was so good!! I can't believe that they left us with that ending. I was yelling at the tv for Giles to watch out!! This season's eps has really been good. The ummpphh is back into the show. I'm jumping at different scenes and yelling at the tv I like used to with Buffy. If this is the last season, it is going to go out with a bang!!!😀 😀 😱
Stake'em & Smile
Stake's with Attitude
Still a little early to estimate Faith's return I bet. She hasn't even made her appearance on Angel.
Another great episode IMO. I'm loving this big bad.
Another great episode IMO. I'm loving this big bad.
I looked at the episode again...and that robed figure with the ax aiming at Giles looked to be pure demon. I think followers of the big bad are killing the Slayers in training...than I think they will go after Faith in jail (leading her to escape). Which might explain her return later in the season. Yea!
C
Caitie
Guest
Spike hummed a little song...
Does anyone know the name of the song that "Spike" was singing while real Spike vampd out?
Does anyone know the name of the song that "Spike" was singing while real Spike vampd out?
F
FiveByFiveB
Guest
nerd4hire
Certified Uncloneable
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2002
- Messages
- 9,102
Here you go Caitie.
I cribbed this off another forum. It's the lyrics to the old English folks song Spike-Morph was singing.
Yes FivebyFive The melody was used as the theme for an old Canadian Chidren's show called the Friendly Giant.
(A nod of aknowledgement to VT_Slayer of FanForum who found these first)
Early One Morning
English Folk Song
Anon.
Early one morning, just as the sun was rising
I heard a maid sing in the valley below
"Oh don't deceive me, Oh never leave me,
How could you use, a poor maiden so?"
Remember the vows that you made to me truly
Remember how tenderly you nestled close to me
Gay is the garland, fresh are the roses
I've culled from the garden to bind over thee.
Here I now wander alone as I wonder
Why did you leave me to sigh and complain
I ask of the roses, why should I be forsaken,
Why must I here in sorrow remain?
Through yonder grove, by the spring that is running
There you and I have so merrily played,
Kissing and courting and gently sporting
Oh, my innocent heart you've betrayed
How could you slight so a pretty girl who loves you
A pretty girl who loves you so dearly and warm?
Though love's folly is surely but a fancy,
Still it should prove to me sweeter than your scorn.
Soon you will meet with another pretty maiden
Some pretty maiden, you'll court her for a while;
Thus ever ranging, turning and changing
Always seeking for a girl that is new.
Thus sang the maiden, her sorrows bewailing
Thus sang the poor maid in the valley below
"Oh don't deceive me, Oh never leave me,
How could you use, a poor maiden so?"
I cribbed this off another forum. It's the lyrics to the old English folks song Spike-Morph was singing.
Yes FivebyFive The melody was used as the theme for an old Canadian Chidren's show called the Friendly Giant.
(A nod of aknowledgement to VT_Slayer of FanForum who found these first)
Early One Morning
English Folk Song
Anon.
Early one morning, just as the sun was rising
I heard a maid sing in the valley below
"Oh don't deceive me, Oh never leave me,
How could you use, a poor maiden so?"
Remember the vows that you made to me truly
Remember how tenderly you nestled close to me
Gay is the garland, fresh are the roses
I've culled from the garden to bind over thee.
Here I now wander alone as I wonder
Why did you leave me to sigh and complain
I ask of the roses, why should I be forsaken,
Why must I here in sorrow remain?
Through yonder grove, by the spring that is running
There you and I have so merrily played,
Kissing and courting and gently sporting
Oh, my innocent heart you've betrayed
How could you slight so a pretty girl who loves you
A pretty girl who loves you so dearly and warm?
Though love's folly is surely but a fancy,
Still it should prove to me sweeter than your scorn.
Soon you will meet with another pretty maiden
Some pretty maiden, you'll court her for a while;
Thus ever ranging, turning and changing
Always seeking for a girl that is new.
Thus sang the maiden, her sorrows bewailing
Thus sang the poor maid in the valley below
"Oh don't deceive me, Oh never leave me,
How could you use, a poor maiden so?"
Stake'em & Smile
Stake's with Attitude
F
FiveByFiveB
Guest
Here's an article from www.ew.com about "Sleeper". It's definitely not praising the episode, and I really gotta say I agree with it... http://www.ew.com/ew/article/commentary/0,6115,392495~3~0~anyapretendstoseduce,00.html
Anya pretends to seduce Spike -- yawn! ''Buffy'' delivers a disappointing rehash of past shows, with few hints of the future, says Rachel Lovinger:
After a string of powerful and entertaining episodes, this week's ''Buffy'' seems especially weak. Ostensibly, ''Sleeper'' gives a forward push to the season's main story arc, but it's filled with details we already know -- obvious plot developments and lame jokes. The entire episode could have been covered by one long ''Previously on 'Buffy'''... followed by a slightly extended ''Scenes from next week'' sequence.
From the ''Previously on 'Buffy''' file, it's no big thrill to watch Willow, Dawn, and Buffy repeatedly debating whether the Joyce (aka Buffy and Dawn's mom) who visited Dawn last week was their dead mother or a demon apparition -- especially because the rest of us have been discussing it for the past week. In other non-developments, is anyone surprised to learn that Spike's odd behavior is a result of manipulation by this season's nemesis? We already know that Spike had mind-bending contact with the evil force, and we know that it likes to pose as familiar people in order to mess with our heroes. So what's the news here? (Well, there's one new-ish detail: The characters themselves are now referring to the evil force as ''The Big Bad.'' I hate to say it, but this lazy self-referential nod is one of the surest signs that the show is preparing to wind down.)
The painful predictability of Anya pretending to seduce Spike when she's caught snooping through his stuff is only matched by his shock-free response: a polite decline. This rehash of the duo's unfortunate tryst from last season also calls to mind Spike's first impotent attack on Willow, after he was neutered by the chip in his head. But this week's Spike-Anya scene suffers by comparison, since it doesn't live up to the impact of the previous Anya scene or the hilarity of the Willow encounter.
Of course, the new episode hasn't left soulful Spike unscathed, and it'll be interesting to see how he -- and the Scoobies -- deal with the fallout. Which is why the moment that Buffy decides NOT to kill him seems to start the ''Scenes from next week'' portion of the show. Does that event really need to be followed by the long conversation about why helping him will also help the gang learn more about the evil they're up against?
The filler between the few important events starts to feel like a lame-joke competition. There are two top contenders. In this corner, Spike's recent conquest/victim, now one of the beautiful undead, asks him, ''Is that all I am to you? A one bite stand?'' In the other corner, rock star guest performer Aimee Mann is forced to utter the line, ''Man, I hate playing vampire towns,'' after the dusting of that same undead woman (briefly) interrupts her band's act.
What's going on here? ''Buffy'' normally shocks and delights, but it feels as if someone important was asleep at the wheel when this episode was written. Is that why it's called ''Sleeper''? In fact, the only moment with a slight element of surprise is when Giles shows up, only to have his fate left dangerously uncertain with an axe swinging at his head. If this were ''24'' I'd say he's probably dead. If it were ''Alias'' I'd say he'll definitely survive. But it's ''Buffy,'' so I'm happy to say that -- even if only for this one moment in an otherwise predictable episode -- anything can happen.
Do you agree that this week's show is a letdown?
Anya pretends to seduce Spike -- yawn! ''Buffy'' delivers a disappointing rehash of past shows, with few hints of the future, says Rachel Lovinger:
After a string of powerful and entertaining episodes, this week's ''Buffy'' seems especially weak. Ostensibly, ''Sleeper'' gives a forward push to the season's main story arc, but it's filled with details we already know -- obvious plot developments and lame jokes. The entire episode could have been covered by one long ''Previously on 'Buffy'''... followed by a slightly extended ''Scenes from next week'' sequence.
From the ''Previously on 'Buffy''' file, it's no big thrill to watch Willow, Dawn, and Buffy repeatedly debating whether the Joyce (aka Buffy and Dawn's mom) who visited Dawn last week was their dead mother or a demon apparition -- especially because the rest of us have been discussing it for the past week. In other non-developments, is anyone surprised to learn that Spike's odd behavior is a result of manipulation by this season's nemesis? We already know that Spike had mind-bending contact with the evil force, and we know that it likes to pose as familiar people in order to mess with our heroes. So what's the news here? (Well, there's one new-ish detail: The characters themselves are now referring to the evil force as ''The Big Bad.'' I hate to say it, but this lazy self-referential nod is one of the surest signs that the show is preparing to wind down.)
The painful predictability of Anya pretending to seduce Spike when she's caught snooping through his stuff is only matched by his shock-free response: a polite decline. This rehash of the duo's unfortunate tryst from last season also calls to mind Spike's first impotent attack on Willow, after he was neutered by the chip in his head. But this week's Spike-Anya scene suffers by comparison, since it doesn't live up to the impact of the previous Anya scene or the hilarity of the Willow encounter.
Of course, the new episode hasn't left soulful Spike unscathed, and it'll be interesting to see how he -- and the Scoobies -- deal with the fallout. Which is why the moment that Buffy decides NOT to kill him seems to start the ''Scenes from next week'' portion of the show. Does that event really need to be followed by the long conversation about why helping him will also help the gang learn more about the evil they're up against?
The filler between the few important events starts to feel like a lame-joke competition. There are two top contenders. In this corner, Spike's recent conquest/victim, now one of the beautiful undead, asks him, ''Is that all I am to you? A one bite stand?'' In the other corner, rock star guest performer Aimee Mann is forced to utter the line, ''Man, I hate playing vampire towns,'' after the dusting of that same undead woman (briefly) interrupts her band's act.
What's going on here? ''Buffy'' normally shocks and delights, but it feels as if someone important was asleep at the wheel when this episode was written. Is that why it's called ''Sleeper''? In fact, the only moment with a slight element of surprise is when Giles shows up, only to have his fate left dangerously uncertain with an axe swinging at his head. If this were ''24'' I'd say he's probably dead. If it were ''Alias'' I'd say he'll definitely survive. But it's ''Buffy,'' so I'm happy to say that -- even if only for this one moment in an otherwise predictable episode -- anything can happen.
Do you agree that this week's show is a letdown?
A
Allycat
Guest
Okay, I totally disagree! ... Well offcoure, because I love this show, and the writer obviously doesn't!
We m,ight have been discussing wether it was the real Joyce or not, but the characters didn't and this might be important for the rest of the season and for the relation between Joyce and Dawn.
Okay, it was kind of really really really stupid, to let the characters say "big bad", they'd better never do that again!
Spike and Anya was indeed a little obvious, but also quite funny, anyway, we never saw who Anya called, was it Buffy or the First Evil, this is a source for a lot of speculations!
I guess this episode was designed to confuse us, about Anya, about Spike, about the First and about the SITs, and that worked!
Aimee Mann's performance was very cool, and her line was also very funny!
This episode also shows how Buffy feels for Spike and I hope that all the B/A shipper are also convinced that Buffy feels for Spike, though they may not like it!
Okay, the story didn't evolve too much, not much big action, but that's beyond the point, it had some scene's that were needed to deepen out the relations, to review the events that happened in the last few episodes and to look a little closer at what the big bad is!
As for Giles, I bet he'll survive!
We m,ight have been discussing wether it was the real Joyce or not, but the characters didn't and this might be important for the rest of the season and for the relation between Joyce and Dawn.
Okay, it was kind of really really really stupid, to let the characters say "big bad", they'd better never do that again!
Spike and Anya was indeed a little obvious, but also quite funny, anyway, we never saw who Anya called, was it Buffy or the First Evil, this is a source for a lot of speculations!
I guess this episode was designed to confuse us, about Anya, about Spike, about the First and about the SITs, and that worked!
Aimee Mann's performance was very cool, and her line was also very funny!
This episode also shows how Buffy feels for Spike and I hope that all the B/A shipper are also convinced that Buffy feels for Spike, though they may not like it!
Okay, the story didn't evolve too much, not much big action, but that's beyond the point, it had some scene's that were needed to deepen out the relations, to review the events that happened in the last few episodes and to look a little closer at what the big bad is!
As for Giles, I bet he'll survive!
captain oxide
and god, and the bible
the musical guest stars need to stick to playing music at the bronze, and nothing more. this isn't the simpsons, they shouldn't have actual lines.
A
Allycat
Guest
:O ... what's wrong with one line? ... it was a funny line and added another dimension to the whole episode, I agree that they shouldn't get involved in the story, but this is just a small funny break, it's either her filler-line or some other from a regular character and well for the sake of variety I choose her!
Eliza Dushku
Psychotic
yea it was kinda random but it didnt bother me too much cause it was just one line...if it were more than that then i would get kinda annoyed..
actually now that you mention it... it is exTREMEly stupid to have the characters refer to the Big Bad as the big bad.... I'm so mad at the writers... its like the characters are aware that they go through different seasons and there is one big bad per season. i mean, how do they know that they wont solve this whole thing and kill it the next epp? Grrrrrr
-mmmdonuts
-mmmdonuts
captain oxide
and god, and the bible
yea you're right, one line isn't too bad.
i just thought it was kind of cheesy or something, but not terrible.
i just thought it was kind of cheesy or something, but not terrible.
Diminished_9th
Scooby
Oh, I don't know. Many many things have warned them that this is coming, so I don't find it hard to believe that they know that something Big and Bad is up. Besides, it's us who attributed the term, "Big Bad" to mean "Big, awful demon whom Buffy must kill at the end of the season." I believe that Spike coined the phrase by calling himself the Big Bad. Well, even in season two, he wasn't The Big Bad, so I think they can get away with using it to mean "anything that's coming that we have to fight."
fallen_angel_98
Townie
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2002
- Messages
- 1