captain oxide
and god, and the bible
that's exactly what i thought when i saw it..
i guess that they got lazy or ran out of cement and just sealed it up with a conveniently easily removable piece of metal or something instead.
Official Discussion of 7.13 "The Killer In Me" (UPN-US)
- Thread starter Buffy Summers
- Start date
that's exactly what i thought when i saw it..
i guess that they got lazy or ran out of cement and just sealed it up with a conveniently easily removable piece of metal or something instead.
Helga the Viking
I'm a Viking!
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2002
- Messages
- 109
Yeah i thought that too. Didnt they blow the place up, raze it, fill it in, or destroy it in some other way. "Salt the earth" and all that. I am also not sure how a degrading metal chip can be fatal to spike. Decapitation, fire, sunlight, stakes to the heart.... degrading metal doesnt seem to fall into any of those categories.
Otherwise... loved the episode. Amy's "its about the power" was a nice reminder of the theme even though the 1st wasnt in the ep.
And HURRAY! for giles be corporeal! I have been worried about that for a while. He has lots of explaining to do though.
I loved Willow's re-enactment of Warren's scene. I saw the bench and was like "oh no!!" But good call on the subconscious thing. How did Willow know what he said and how he held that gun etc? I just feel so bad for Willow. AH did a wonderful of displaying just how tormented she has been.
Ok, gtg to bed. Gnite all.
-Helga
Otherwise... loved the episode. Amy's "its about the power" was a nice reminder of the theme even though the 1st wasnt in the ep.
And HURRAY! for giles be corporeal! I have been worried about that for a while. He has lots of explaining to do though.
I loved Willow's re-enactment of Warren's scene. I saw the bench and was like "oh no!!" But good call on the subconscious thing. How did Willow know what he said and how he held that gun etc? I just feel so bad for Willow. AH did a wonderful of displaying just how tormented she has been.
Ok, gtg to bed. Gnite all.
-Helga
Lorne The Host
Krevlornswath
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2002
- Messages
- 854
I actually always thought they would never do it... because they say they are going to fill it with concrete and seal it... but i always thought that for that to be done (because of the initiative's construction) they would have to go inside... and in the video in primeval, the initiative still has many alive demons eating the dead demons, so i thought they'd be to scared to do it and they'd leave it like that... or maybe the demons killed many guys who wanted to put concrete there
PadmeGinny
www.commonrotation.com
This was a good episode. Adam's a great actor!!!!!!!!! Go Warren, even though he's evil!!!!!! And again, Anya was fantastic. Can't wait till next week's ep.
Cate
Cate
drusilla77
Townie
What a great episode. I don't want Buffy to end this year, at the rate that season seven is going I would be happy if this show lasted another ten years.
So Giles isn't the First. Which I am mightly glad of. I have to admit that I was freaking when they realized that he might be, and that Giles had all of the potential slayers with him (well except for Kennedy who was off kissing Willow). The scene with them all jumping on top of Giles and touching him was very funny, probably one of the funniest things to happen this season.
The Spike chip thing has gotten very interesting. I feel bad for Buffy, because she has quite a decision to make. Does she take out the chip and hope that Spike really is a good guy, and hope that he doesn't go on a killing rampage, or does she have it repaired for safety measures? Now I know that Spike has a soul and all, but lets not forget what he is, a killer. Human beings who have souls still kill, so its not out of the question to think that Spike may still be capable of hunting. It was also good to see the Iniative gang, but thats because personally I was quite partial to Riley.
The Kennedy/Willow thing is okay by me, even though at first I thought they were rushing things a bit. I liked how they showed Willow trying to deal with her feelings for Kennedy plus the lingering guilt she feels for Tara's death. Alyson Hannigan has once again outdone herself, her talent at portraying the painful and darkside of Willow is one of the most astounding acting jobs I have ever seen. I'm not as upset about this pairing as I originally was. I just hope Joss doesn't rush it, although with the series coming quicky to the end I fear thats exactly what will happen.
I think the most amazing part of this episode was that at one point I thought that all three storylines had to do with the first. The Willow turning into Warren thing, the Spike and his chip malfunctioning, and the whole Giles thing, and as it turns out not one of them was related to the First. Joss is such a freaking genius, I tell you, he is a GOD!
One more comment before I end this very longwinded rant. What the hell was going on with Amy? Did she turn into a @#%$ or what? I really wanted to smack her silly.
Kristen
You know, if they do decide to do a spinoff, I wouldn't mind seeing a Kennedy the Vampire Slayer spin-off. I like her character, and they could keep the gang intact around her. What do you guys think?
So Giles isn't the First. Which I am mightly glad of. I have to admit that I was freaking when they realized that he might be, and that Giles had all of the potential slayers with him (well except for Kennedy who was off kissing Willow). The scene with them all jumping on top of Giles and touching him was very funny, probably one of the funniest things to happen this season.
The Spike chip thing has gotten very interesting. I feel bad for Buffy, because she has quite a decision to make. Does she take out the chip and hope that Spike really is a good guy, and hope that he doesn't go on a killing rampage, or does she have it repaired for safety measures? Now I know that Spike has a soul and all, but lets not forget what he is, a killer. Human beings who have souls still kill, so its not out of the question to think that Spike may still be capable of hunting. It was also good to see the Iniative gang, but thats because personally I was quite partial to Riley.
The Kennedy/Willow thing is okay by me, even though at first I thought they were rushing things a bit. I liked how they showed Willow trying to deal with her feelings for Kennedy plus the lingering guilt she feels for Tara's death. Alyson Hannigan has once again outdone herself, her talent at portraying the painful and darkside of Willow is one of the most astounding acting jobs I have ever seen. I'm not as upset about this pairing as I originally was. I just hope Joss doesn't rush it, although with the series coming quicky to the end I fear thats exactly what will happen.
I think the most amazing part of this episode was that at one point I thought that all three storylines had to do with the first. The Willow turning into Warren thing, the Spike and his chip malfunctioning, and the whole Giles thing, and as it turns out not one of them was related to the First. Joss is such a freaking genius, I tell you, he is a GOD!
One more comment before I end this very longwinded rant. What the hell was going on with Amy? Did she turn into a @#%$ or what? I really wanted to smack her silly.
Kristen
You know, if they do decide to do a spinoff, I wouldn't mind seeing a Kennedy the Vampire Slayer spin-off. I like her character, and they could keep the gang intact around her. What do you guys think?
SpikedBuffy
Love Isn't Brains
Okay... was anybody else close to tears when Willow was talking about Tara's death? That was so very sad.
This episode was good... made you cry, made you laugh!
Horray that Giles is real... but what happened with the axe? It's still a little strange.
Cant stand that 'rat' Amy! What was her deal?
All in all, let's kick some First Evil hiney!
And I agree with you Drusilla77~~ more seasons, please
This episode was good... made you cry, made you laugh!
Horray that Giles is real... but what happened with the axe? It's still a little strange.
Cant stand that 'rat' Amy! What was her deal?
All in all, let's kick some First Evil hiney!
And I agree with you Drusilla77~~ more seasons, please
Brandon
So Much Potential
Ok, this might not be the right place for it, but this whole season keeps reminding me of the Buffy Book... "The Book of Fours" the whole axes things, and the speculation that Faith is gonna return? Has anyone read this book and can they give me any insight?
It was pretty good. I actually liked the whole rotating kiss camera technique. I'm still not sure why Kennedy loves Willow so much, but it's the best secondary plotline going on right now. Very romantic.
Two things, though. One, Willow falling to her knees was a little over the top. Fortunately the music (understated, dignified) and the acting saved it from becoming sugary. That was the one part I cringed at. Second, I'm a little annoyed at Kennedy for continually dismissing magic over and over. That was fine in the beginning, when she didn't know about it, but she kept referring to it as fairytale stuff, even after Willow effortlessly shut her out with a barrier spell and Amy zapped her across the room with a wave of her arm. She's still uncovinced? I'm thinking the fairy tale analogy was a lead-in to Kennedy's wake-up kiss (e.g., Snow White, Sleeping Beauty). The writers also probably wanted to show that Kennedy likes Willow for her personality outside of magic, which was a fear Willow had regarding Tara. Still, she comes to the house, most likely a spoiled heiress, and is totally unfazed by Willow's witchiness? What a tough sell! I'd have been bowing after Willow put the brakes on the Turok Han. Hell, I'd probably bow after she floated that candle.
WyrdDemonHunter
Say you're happy now..
Technical: Did anyone notice Sarah M. Gellar's voice sounds funny? Like she's sick or something?
About Giles: Even though he can be touched, I'm not sure he's not evil yet. 🙂 I'm still gonna wait and see.
About the scene where Willow (looking like Warren) is explaining herself to her friends and Spike is in the background groaning in pain:
I know this scene is semi-silly, but I see The First at work here too. See, since it's the Basic Evil Of The Universe (or whatever) it's pretty much at work anytime things are going arwy. It is Chaos incarnate, etc. So that's a happy scene for it. Although The First would be much happier causing real pain and death rather than just discomfort. 🙂
The extra plot with Spike/Buffy:
It was decent, it worked. I liked the ending.
Some have mentioned that they don't see how Spike
can die with a chip in his head. Maybe it will explode. Maybe it will corrode and destroy all his brain tissue so that he doesn't actually die, but completely loses his mind. who knows, who cares. There's worse fates than dieing ya know.
The main plot (Willow, Kenedy, Amy, and Warren):
Oh, what an interesting story this was.
Please remember that in the Buffy world, actions have consequences. Killing people has serious consequences. There is that whole Law Of Karma thing.
IMHO, without meaning to, Amy is causing the Law of Karma to be enforced. This does not make her (Amy's) actions correct, of course. She's still in the wrong. It's just that she was playing out a function in the larger spectrum of things.
Willow had several issues regarding Tara's death and her subsequent killing of Warren. (duh) One thing that most had not mentioned was that Warren had some issues of his own. Probably, many have forgotten this. Warren became evil at some point, true, but I don't believe he started out life that way. It's obvious he had some serious woman issues. Towards the end, there was some Warren in Willow. That's fate for ya.
[an excerpt from the dialogue with some commentary]
KENNEDY: Willow, what did you make happen?
WILLOW: You were there, bitch! You saw it!
WARREN: I killed her! [speaking perhaps of Buffy whom he tried to kill, or Tara whom he really killed or maybe even Katrina, his first kill... but probably Tara]
KENNEDY: You mean "him". [Kennedy's not thinking/understanding about the Warren-is-Willow thing at all, she's focusing on Willow's killing of Warren. All in all, this is probably a Good Thing, as it will help to ground Willow and bring her back to reality.]
WARREN: her... him... You know what I mean!
KENNEDY: But you said "her".
WARREN: No... that was Warren.
KENNEDY: No. No it wasn't. You said "I was there". [Well, see Kennedy, you're standing right where Buffy's 'sposed to be and if you were Buffy and that was Warren then there'd be a Tara in the window about to get shot. Reliving the past can be a dangerous thing.]
...
WILLOW: I kissed you [Kennedy] just for a second, but it was enough. I let her [Tara] go. I didn't mean to.
KENNEDY: Kissing me didn't mean that...
WILLOW: [anguished] No... She was never gone. She was with me. We should have been forever. And I... I let her be dead. She's really dead. And I killed her. [Okay, who's "I" and who's "her"? Let's see, we've got Warren having literally killed Tara, then there's Warren also having literally killed Katrina and maybe, just maybe, now that he's been dead for a while Warren might finally regret that a little. And then of course, Willow feels as though she's just recently killed Tara by forgetting her memory for a moment when she kissed Kennedy. The correct answer, of course, is that "I" is both Warren and Willow and "she" refers to at least Tara and possibly Katrina but probably not.]
WILLOW: [looking up towards the heavens] Please, baby! [even more anguished] I'm so sorry.
WARREN: [anguished] Come back! I'm sorry! I'm sorry! Come back! [Of course, this is Warren finally feeling guilt and remorse for what he's done, in addition to Willow feeling likewise for what she's done.]
[etcetera]
And love found a way. I.e., Kennedy's kiss sent Warren's soul flitting away.
(Hopefully in a more healthy and healed state than when Willow sent it away by ripping off his skin. Speaking of--do you suppose that in Warren's own personal universe the next place he went to after dieing was this episode? Remember, time doesn't flow the same for the dead as it does for the living. And everyone has to pay for what they do... just a thought 😉 .)
And of course this brought Wilow back from the brink and also helped her get over Tara's death some more.
All in all, a lot of healing and even a happy ending. Just like in a fairy tale.
(P.S. If this post made no sense, it's cause I'm too tired.)
(P.P.S. For Amy's first appearence, check out "1x03 - The Witch")Technical: yabba
About Giles: Even though he can be touched, I'm not sure he's not evil yet. 🙂 I'm still gonna wait and see.
About the scene where Willow (looking like Warren) is explaining herself to her friends and Spike is in the background groaning in pain:
I know this scene is semi-silly, but I see The First at work here too. See, since it's the Basic Evil Of The Universe (or whatever) it's pretty much at work anytime things are going arwy. It is Chaos incarnate, etc. So that's a happy scene for it. Although The First would be much happier causing real pain and death rather than just discomfort. 🙂
The extra plot with Spike/Buffy:
It was decent, it worked. I liked the ending.
Some have mentioned that they don't see how Spike
can die with a chip in his head. Maybe it will explode. Maybe it will corrode and destroy all his brain tissue so that he doesn't actually die, but completely loses his mind. who knows, who cares. There's worse fates than dieing ya know.
The main plot (Willow, Kenedy, Amy, and Warren):
Oh, what an interesting story this was.
Please remember that in the Buffy world, actions have consequences. Killing people has serious consequences. There is that whole Law Of Karma thing.
IMHO, without meaning to, Amy is causing the Law of Karma to be enforced. This does not make her (Amy's) actions correct, of course. She's still in the wrong. It's just that she was playing out a function in the larger spectrum of things.
Willow had several issues regarding Tara's death and her subsequent killing of Warren. (duh) One thing that most had not mentioned was that Warren had some issues of his own. Probably, many have forgotten this. Warren became evil at some point, true, but I don't believe he started out life that way. It's obvious he had some serious woman issues. Towards the end, there was some Warren in Willow. That's fate for ya.
[an excerpt from the dialogue with some commentary]
KENNEDY: Willow, what did you make happen?
WILLOW: You were there, bitch! You saw it!
WARREN: I killed her! [speaking perhaps of Buffy whom he tried to kill, or Tara whom he really killed or maybe even Katrina, his first kill... but probably Tara]
KENNEDY: You mean "him". [Kennedy's not thinking/understanding about the Warren-is-Willow thing at all, she's focusing on Willow's killing of Warren. All in all, this is probably a Good Thing, as it will help to ground Willow and bring her back to reality.]
WARREN: her... him... You know what I mean!
KENNEDY: But you said "her".
WARREN: No... that was Warren.
KENNEDY: No. No it wasn't. You said "I was there". [Well, see Kennedy, you're standing right where Buffy's 'sposed to be and if you were Buffy and that was Warren then there'd be a Tara in the window about to get shot. Reliving the past can be a dangerous thing.]
...
WILLOW: I kissed you [Kennedy] just for a second, but it was enough. I let her [Tara] go. I didn't mean to.
KENNEDY: Kissing me didn't mean that...
WILLOW: [anguished] No... She was never gone. She was with me. We should have been forever. And I... I let her be dead. She's really dead. And I killed her. [Okay, who's "I" and who's "her"? Let's see, we've got Warren having literally killed Tara, then there's Warren also having literally killed Katrina and maybe, just maybe, now that he's been dead for a while Warren might finally regret that a little. And then of course, Willow feels as though she's just recently killed Tara by forgetting her memory for a moment when she kissed Kennedy. The correct answer, of course, is that "I" is both Warren and Willow and "she" refers to at least Tara and possibly Katrina but probably not.]
WILLOW: [looking up towards the heavens] Please, baby! [even more anguished] I'm so sorry.
WARREN: [anguished] Come back! I'm sorry! I'm sorry! Come back! [Of course, this is Warren finally feeling guilt and remorse for what he's done, in addition to Willow feeling likewise for what she's done.]
[etcetera]
And love found a way. I.e., Kennedy's kiss sent Warren's soul flitting away.
(Hopefully in a more healthy and healed state than when Willow sent it away by ripping off his skin. Speaking of--do you suppose that in Warren's own personal universe the next place he went to after dieing was this episode? Remember, time doesn't flow the same for the dead as it does for the living. And everyone has to pay for what they do... just a thought 😉 .)
And of course this brought Wilow back from the brink and also helped her get over Tara's death some more.
All in all, a lot of healing and even a happy ending. Just like in a fairy tale.
(P.S. If this post made no sense, it's cause I'm too tired.)
(P.P.S. For Amy's first appearence, check out "1x03 - The Witch")Technical: yabba
stargazekid
slyrgirl
I just saw this EP now and I don't think it's as good as the hype says it is. I didn't really like the Willow/Kennedy storyline. Probably because Kennedy annoys the hell out of me. There definitely needs to be more Anya and I am DYING to find out how Giles escaped The Bringer. I still believe he could be TFE... just a feeling.
I hope Amy comes back in future episodes. Hehe. I love the nasty evil characters 😉
I hope Amy comes back in future episodes. Hehe. I love the nasty evil characters 😉
for me, this episode wasn't my favourite. i was more interested in the spooky parts with buffy and spike. i honestly don't want anything to happen between willow and kennedy. kennedy is too frickin aggressive. (it bothers me.) i was only rooting for her when she was chattin away with amy. too bad kennedy couldn't rough her up a bit. hehe
also, i didn't like the ending moving-camera shot. it was kinda sloppy cuz you can tell where the two shots merge. i'm picky with things like that.
also, i didn't like the ending moving-camera shot. it was kinda sloppy cuz you can tell where the two shots merge. i'm picky with things like that.
sweet_tooth2002
Townie
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2002
- Messages
- 62
- Age
- 44
I liked this episode. I think Willow and Kennedy make a good couple and any episode in which Williow cries is incredibly moving. I had to cry buckets at the end when she says kissing Kennedy made Tara really be dead cause she thought it ment she's not grieveing for her anymore. When she's looking up and shouting I'm sorry baby come back. I was kinda annoyed when they changed her into Warren during that emotional speech.
And I wonder if Buffy has the initiative remove the chip.
I reckon this episode had just the right balance between funny and sad.
One of my faves this season!!
And I wonder if Buffy has the initiative remove the chip.
I reckon this episode had just the right balance between funny and sad.
One of my faves this season!!
PadmeGinny
www.commonrotation.com
I've read part of this book, and now that you mention it, it does seem kind of like it. I can't give you any insight, but I can say that it's a good book. I recommend it to all who read this 😉
Cate
nerd4hire
Certified Uncloneable
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2002
- Messages
- 9,102
Yeah I noticed that. Do you think there could have been any connection between the husky voice and all the hardware Buffy was wearing around her neck this ep.
What was with the sequined pit bull collar anyways? Do girls really wear stuff like that around the house.
Also; Buffy girls sure seem to drink a lot of tea. Maybe that's why Buffy was so glad to get her bathroom back.
Did you find Kennedy particularly seductive? I didn't. It made Willow come off as being kind of easy. Maybe she had good reason to feel guilty about being an easy kiss for Kennedy. I forgive her though. It's been a while between kisses for her.
I still wonder if this is the real Giles. The real Giles was intelligent. This Giles says to himself " Hey... the largest and darkest force of evil in the universe wants to kill the SITs, but we're safe in the house... I know. I'll take them on a camping trip."
Why was that Beaver monster in the initiative dressed in initiative battle fatigues?
Here's another one-- Amy let's it slip that she knows Kennedy is a potential. This apparently tells Kennedy, Amy is up to no good. Why?
Is the "potential" thing supposed to be a secret? If so why is Buffy touring all the Hellmouth demon haunts giving loud lectures? Even if it is a secret how does Amy knowing it automatically make her a bad person? Willow was a big part of Amy's rat and non-rat life. Of course she would be curious to discover Willow gossip. That wouldn't mean she was an evil supernatural threat, just a normal human.
By the way, why am I supposed to believe that Amy is supposed to feel all inferior to Willow's superior power, when she seems to be displaying more power than Willow has all season 7?
In fact she teleports Kennedy with a snap of her fingers. Do you remember when Willow was at the peak of her powers at the end of season 6? Anya said a witch of her level couldn't teleport. She does teleport along with Dawn and Buffy later in the episode, but she needs a power boost to do it.
Apparently Amy doesn't belong in the backseat of witchdom, so how is it we're supposed to believe feelings of inferiority are a motivation for her to wish Willow harm?
This is the kind of stuff I hate about Drew Z Greenberg scripts. He forces unbelievable ideas in without any respect for the natural laws of Buffydom, or respect for the credibility of we the viewers.
I find it really hard to suspend my disbelief when viewing a Greenberg script.
Still The Killer in Me was probably the best thing Greenberg's ever written. It was almost good enough to belong in Season 7, which is more than you can say about his last effort "Him".
I was thinking the exact same thing. When Willow was at season five power, she had to chant, with dust, with Tara, and had no control over where her victim went--and that was with a nosebleed side-effect. Here, Amy can just pulls a Samantha Stevens when we were explicitly told how hard it is to teleport. The only explaination I can think of is that when Amy teleported Kennedy, it took a while for her to get there, though the editing made it seem instantaneous. Or maybe it's easier to teleport other people, and not oneself. Who knows. I actually pay pretty close attention to the laws of magic, so to speak, as written on the show. Maybe that's my first mistake.