Official Discussion of "Conversations W/Dead People"

It seems like everybody's made such good points about this episode. (I personally was riveted to my chair throughout and hid the remote from my husband).

My own condensed theories (many of which all of you have brought upin one form or another):

The evil morphing hellmouth thing is trying to play with the minds of what it regards as its strongest opponents: Buffy, Dawn, and especially Willow.

Struck out totally with Willow because her powers plus her brains figured out what was *really* talking to her.

Managed to play with Buffy's mind, although she's tough, and now has her seriously distrusting Spike (who might be a "second level" threat because of his strength, experience, and possibly his soul).

Probably seriously terrorized Dawn into mistrusting her sister. (Question: What makes Dawn such a threat? Does she somehow have a power related to being the Key?)

Jonathan was probably killed because he had a lot of knowledge he intended to share with the Scoobies, and perhaps because a sacrifice was needed at the hellmouth for some reason.

And what about Spike? The simplest solution would be that the hellmouth-thing morphed into a vampire identical to Spike without the chip-and-soul baggage, and goes on rampages from time to time to give the impression that the old Spike is back. (More mistrust all around.)

And it would explain why we never saw Xander: he and the real Spike were probably in his apartment the whole time, sniping at each other and arguing about what to watch on the telly.
 
I loved this week's ep.

About the Big Bad being Satan himself. Hmmm. It may be possible. Everything is connected in the world of evil as the Sire had stated. Also, in next week's preview for Angel, there was an image of what seemed to be the eyes of Satan. The ep is also being touted as "Rain of Fire." Might a Buffy/Angel crossover be in the works? I know that would be most likely out of question, but it would be a fitting finish to BtVS.

About it being Hellmouth itself. That may also be true. When Cassie transformed, it certainly looked like a mouth that came from Hell.

About Dawnie learning magic. Remember, she's "been" with the Scooby gang since the beginning and could have picked it up from Willow when she started learning it. Dawnie also cast that resurrection spell back in season 5 to bring back Joyce.

About Joyce giving that message to Dawnie. Perhaps when Dawn cast that spell and it finally worked, she might have banished Joyce, leaving that demon behind. That demon could have taken the form of Joyce to tell Dawn about the future that she wouldn't desire.
 
Did anyone else notice that the room we first saw Spike this season, is the same room the Duo did their excavating in? I think Spike was in or near that room every time we've seen him in the school basement. All around, a really great episode. The "Get Out" really reminded me of The Amityville Horror.
 
I thought the rooms looked very similar, but I wasn't positive they were the same. The geography of the school basement seems to change arbitrarily, but maybe the "Big Bad" room always stays the same...
 
First of all, It WASN'T Spike--remember the V chip!! So, it's shapeshifty guy. Also, we all know about Andrew, right? RIGHT?? Also, with Buffy and Dawn--Buffy's going to choose who wants to go down into the Hellmouth, and she picks someone else. Dawn, of course, wants to go with her...That's my theory at least...
 
My theory regarding Joyce...Buffy doesn't chose you, ie she choses to die again (therefore not chosing to live and stay with Dawn). Perhaps a warning to Dawn to do something this time.

GMAN...what is up with Andrew? The only thing I know about Andrew is he is the brother of a character from a past season, a geek, intelligent, and gay (that's why the big bad is appearing as Warren, Andrew's secret crush). Is there another thing we don't know about???
 
When I saw Azura Skyes name in credits, I almost was jumping up and down. I :: red :: her! She's such a great actress. I really liked the episode. Not my favourite of this season but pretty close. I prefer evil Spike to good Spike too. Big bonus there.
 
Now Dawn proved real strength this time, because had that been me, my butt would have been out the door lol, and poor Willow! I felt so bad for her.... Buffy's scenes were just weird... but all the warnings were SOOOOO good...

I do think it was the shapeshifter doing all this madness... but what s going to be the big BAD?

I do like the idea of the actual Hellmouth lol... that would be SCARY!
 
Great episode, but I'm upset that Jonathan died. I liked what he said about still caring (about the people he went to high school with). In some way, I think everybody truly feels that way - maybe not just about high school either. I think I'll probably end up looking back at my teen years the same way he did; even if it seems like the worst thing in the world right now.

I liked seeing Cassie again, but still would have prefered it being Tara telling Willow all that stuff. Strong like an amazon 🙁 aww. I just wanted to punch that evil thingy in the face when it made fun of Willow's crying. Big stupid meany! I cried so much during this ep. Willow made me drain like a freakin' fountain, and some Buffy parts were of a sad level.

Loved every scene with Buffy talking to Holden ("Webs"). Vamp Dude; sucks he had to die. Why couldn't they have made him some annoying demon therapist guy for Buffy. I loved him! And I can't believe Scott Hope is gay. Willow, Tara, Larry, Scott, Andrew... I think Buffy has the highest amount of gay people ever to be on one show.😛 (Kudos.😉 )

Dawn's first and last scenes (I thought) were the only good Dawn-scenes. First Dawn-scene - very funny, playing around with the weapons, shooting the wall, dropping "blood" sauce on Buffy's shirt...adorably funny. When Joyce said that Buffy wouldn't choose Dawn when things get bad, my mouth dropped and I went: whaaaaaaaaaat? I'm dying to know what that's about, and if it's true. I'm still a little unsure: Was that really Joyce or the 1st evil thing? I mean, I know Cassie and Warren weren't real, but was Joyce?

The mixture of the funny & the sad was very much needed here. I was dying at that "Warren" & Andrew part, and crying my eyes out at the Willow/"Cassie"/"Tara" part.

No Xander. No Anya. So wrong. 😱 20-10-0! Oh, that's my locker combo...
 
I was really upset when I saw that Jonathan died. He was always great for some laughs and I knew that anytime I saw him it would be a fun episode.
 
And it sucks that his last episode was PRETTY dark...

I really hate not being able to see Anya... and now that she is not a vengeance demon... I only wonder what they will write for her next...
 
Oh wow. BtVS is just awesome this year. I feel like this should have played as the Halloween ep.. but I guess thats sweeps for ya. This episode was so cool.. not my favorite of the season, but I feel like later in the season we are going to realize how extremely important it was. i really wished that AB had been able to make a cameo. I almost cried at the 'strong like an amazon' comment too. i love how they have made some references to things that happened years ago. ooooooooh i can't wait for next week!

-Helga

I can't remember my locker combo!

Double Post: -

OH! And both Angel and Buffy seem to be working towards an apocalypse. They definitely should tag team it. I miss crossovers! They supposedly exist in the same universe, but they never see each other? never collaborate? Angel is a completely independent show now, crossovers would only enhance them both. Sniffles... I can always dream.

-Helga
 
Wow, so many points already made! Late on the bandwagon, but cents for what they're worth:

Jonathan dead! NOOooo! ::crying:: Andrew was supposed to die (IMHO, because he's a pain). Definitely human blood spillage was required for the hell mouth to.. do something. Not sure what but along the lines of manifesting itself and ultimately taking over the world I'd guess. Of course this leaves an opening for s-shifty to appear as Jonathan - I think we'll see him again 🙂 which will be great except now he'll be evil and he was never really Evil even when he was trying to be a supervillian. Sure the blood spill will make the BB much stronger next week, though.

Funniest line: "It eats you, starting at your bottom."

So it was obvious that was not Cassie. I believe the only reason Tara did not appear was the contract issue, which they had to work the storyline around. I am firmly and officially in the That was NOT Joyce or Spike either camp. Clearly the First, Hellmouth, Shifter, BB is on a campaign to both isolate Buffy and make her doubt herself.

Holden was funny, but yes, sadly he did have to get dusted because - hello - Evil. Can't have him going around Sunnydale draining people of their blood, which is what Vamps do unless they have a good reason (read: Soul or Chip) not to. 🙂

Great theories from a bunch of people! Thought Dawn was way over top smashing everything with the bat just because they wouldn't turn off. And Buffy can't afford all those house repairs! Boy is she gonna be pissed when she gets home! lol
 
conversations w/ dead people

I believe whatever Joyce was, she spoke the truth to Dawn. "When the time comes, Buffy will not choose you".
This is most likely a reference to the big bad showdown. And seeing that Faith will return (and bringing along that fantastic ass too), Faith will somehow fit into the equation. It may be a sacrifice situation, where faith or buffy sacrifices themselves. But, it is clear, the little bit will not play a major role.
 
Great theories from a bunch of people! Thought Dawn was way over top smashing everything with the bat just because they wouldn't turn off. And Buffy can't afford all those house repairs! Boy is she gonna be pissed when she gets home! lol
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Heh. That house has been destroyed more times that I can count....like the old library!

I usually get freaked out really easily, but for some reason BtVS usually doesn't scare me too badly....even Hush wasn't scary for me. The scenes with Dawn, though, completely freaked me out. I had a hard time watching them. <shivers>
 
I thought the episode was great. I loved almost every single part of it.

Buffy talking to Holden was funny. I loved how one part they were talking then fighting, talking then fighting. And it was great when Buffy was laying down on the gravestone, while Holden was analyzing her parents divorce. He seemed like a good guy at first and after finally getting that he was fighting Buffy he was all "Oh my god and stuff." I thought then he wasn't going to fight her but then he did. I really liked him until he said that Spike sired him. That annoyed me. Here we are thinking that Spike is all good now, and he is off killing all these people. What happend to the chip in his head. And then he kills that girl in the end, what is that about?
I liked Willows convo, but like most of us, I wish it was really Tara. It would have been so nice to see her again. I didn't like seeing Willow cry though that was sad. I thought Cassie did a good job passing on the message though. What she said at the end was interesting too.
And Dawn. In the past I have been dissapointed with Dawn's work, but this episode made me like her a little bit. I thought she really did a good job of expressing herself in this one. And I loved how they made her say, "Mom, Mom...Mommy" just like Buffy did in "The Body." This episode had a lot of flashbacks and that is what I love. Joyce was in it for like 2 seconds, but still, I'm always excited to see old faces return. (now if they could only find a way to make Oz return!!!!!). I screamed when they flashed and showed Joyce laying on the couch with the demon, monster thing over her. I think that was the scariest part of the episode.
Oh and Jonathan and Andrew. Where do I begin? As always Jonathan brought a smile to my face. And when they talked about their dreams ("It eats you starting with your bottom.") I almost died. I thought that was great. It upset me greatly when Andrew killed him, and I'm still a little confused on what Andrew exactly thought would happen with him and Warren when he killed Jonathan. Oh well.
All I have to say is that I hope more episodes like this keep coming!
 
I would say that I would not trust anything said by any of the apparitions except to raise yet more questions to be answered. A tantalizing episode, but one that couldn't exist as anything more than a small part of the story arc.

I've noticed crossovers mentioned in a few posts. I have my doubts that'll happen. The two networks are so different. The WB all sleek and sexy, UPN clunkiness personified. Remember the BtVS spots and logos from the WB? Now, remember the wrestling promos on this week's ep? Or consider this: the Roswell theme was by Dido (WB); the Enterprise theme was by Diane Warren and sung by Russell Watson (UPN).
 
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