Oh, look, a child! - manipulating the audience

[Taake]

Currently watching season 5 of X-Files and (spoilers below)- as in other shows - this is the season where they decide to suddenly introduce a child into Scully’s life.

As in a 5 year old that is literally hers and sends her into a couple of episodes of emotional overdrive and sudden motherhood. It is used later in the season again to drag up this emotional trauma for the character and…



… I hate it.


It feels so manipulative. Suddenly the main motivation for a character one has followed for 5 years has completely shifted with the sudden insertion of a character that immediately is the most important thing in their life.


This is comparable to Dawn on Buffy


To some degree April on Gilmore Girls


And again, I hate it. Because the emotionality of it is unearned. It is forced. The audience is manipulated to care for a relationship that they know nothing about, and have to watch the characters they do know, suddenly become altered but abruptly and without cohesiveness.



Are there more examples of this you can think of?


What do you think of this?


Even if you’re grown to like Dawn, do you agree the method is manipulative?

 

[thrasherpix]

I don't recall much about the X-Files after season 4 (though I do recall some eps where Scully has a daughter she never knew about), but I do know that I generally avoid X-Files season 5 on.


As for Dawn in Buffy. I know there are different views on how believable the situation is. I remain firm that Buffy was acting out of character and showing the signs of magical manipulation (and not just her, suffice to say I have headcanon in regards to the monks on why Spike wasn't dusted as he should've been if Buffy were in character), and what it may come down to is that the writers (and actors not having much to work with) just did not sell it good enough for me to accept it.

Some shows can sell the most amazing things. BTVS and Angel have done so more than once. But it did not work here. Even on my first viewing which was more open-minded I remember being confused by how Buffy reacted to learning the truth, a feeling that is starker on rewatch.

Perhaps the reason I don't accept that Buffy is truly protective of Dawn due to sisterly affection is simply because it was one storyline that not even the writers could sell me. That is perhaps it's meta. It feels unearned and manipulative so I see magical manipulation (though it really makes a lot of sense to me in more ways than one).

And that's not disliking Dawn (sometimes I sympathetic where others are not). I wish her character had been introduced much earlier (probably not as Buffy's sister, and I think Buffy could've been protective in character in this case, other things about season 5 and earlier seasons considered, rather than out of character as we got), though Dawn probably would've been a background character until season 5 (at which point she's almost as old as the Scoobies were in season 1).

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Basically, Infant actors are really expensive. You have to basically hire twins, you only get like half an hour to shoot with them, and you have all the problems that come with infants. That's why everyone grows up to be five over the summer.

I don't see it as a bad thing. If your story is character driven, having kids is part of that. But, it can be very poorly executed. I think a number of long running sitcoms are guilty of adding younger characters to make up for the kids aging.

 

[Stake fodder]

Even if you’re grown to like Dawn, do you agree the method is manipulative?

Definitely. Even though I grew to like Dawn in S7, in the back of my mind I would still think, "She's not real," and sometimes find Buffy fussing over her annoying.

there more examples of this you can think of?

Conner. Baby Conner was somewhat earned, with Darla's pregnancy and Angel's fatherhood lasting several episodes. But when teen Conner shows up, and Angel has to care for this complete stranger, it feels like we are being manipulated.

The other one that comes to mind is from the '70s show, The Brady Bunch, which introduced Cousin Oliver in the last season, as the "bunch" were no longer children, leading to the eponymous syndrome (link).

Basically, Infant actors are really expensive. You have to basically hire twins, you only get like half an hour to shoot with them, and you have all the problems that come with infants. That's why everyone grows up to be five over the summer.

I can think of several examples of that, too, though it feels less manipulative if they're introduced in the normal way (pregnancy, birth), though still indicates that the show is running out of ideas.

 

[Taake]

Basically, Infant actors are really expensive. You have to basically hire twins, you only get like half an hour to shoot with them, and you have all the problems that come with infants. That's why everyone grows up to be five over the summer.

I don't see it as a bad thing. If your story is character driven, having kids is part of that. But, it can be very poorly executed. I think a number of long running sitcoms are guilty of adding younger characters to make up for the kids aging.

The problem isn’t the age so much as the sudden appearance of a character the others immediately have an intense relationship to without any build-up.

Notice I didn’t complain about Connor. Cause his presence was built up to. He wasn’t just suddenly there. Age him up after, fine

Modern family, also fine, they make Gloria pregnant. There is build up. Joe is subtly aged up. Fine.

Married with children, less successful example of the same thing

If the 5 year old comment is in relation to Scully, then again, there was never a baby at all. The child is biologically hers without it being hers. There is no immediate build up. She thinks it might be her sister’s until proven different and then for about 3-4 eps total, this is her only character motivation.

It wasn’t a character meant to stick around, so how much shooting time was necessary wasn’t really all that important. The age is more about timing in the show and that they wanted her to be able to talk. It is literally a temporary character made to make Scully cry and I guess they want me to care, but I just can’t.

 

[Cohen]

This is comparable to Dawn on Buffy


To some degree April on Gilmore Girls

I’m glad other people hated April as much as I did. It was insane the about face Luke took when April came into the picture. Still mad at Amy today for bringing April in.

Are there more examples of this you can think of?

Phoebe and everyone she dated on charmed.


But also, Max and Tess’ child in season 3 of Roswell.

Penny as a way to write Callie out in Grey’s season 12. That Callie didn’t dump her ass immediately finding out that she was the doctor that killed Derek, was insane! Also Callie and Arizona breaking up after spending a year getting back together after the plane crash was just as much of an issue.

But Penny 💯

And Owen’s long lost sister on Grey’s, and his love for Teddy. And that he’s still on the show…

 

[November]

Milo on Gossip Girl, but that was blatantly manipulative as part of the story. It was annoying to have this baby shoved in to Dans life, out of no where, so that he has paternal struggles and he and Vanessa play house, plus his own Dads freak out. Was pointless and boring outside of securing Georgias reign of supreme scheme queen.

There are often long lost children or quickly aged up children in Bold and the Beautiful, but they have it down to an art and I look forward to see what whacky story they have come up with to introduce them. Latest being Luna, Bills long lost daughter who actually isnt his daughter who then framed her mother for poisoning her real father, got caught and then confessed to Bill in prison, who then got her out of prison for reasons yet unknown.

 

[NotASlayer]

I guess the plus side of Dawn's manipulation was that even in the show it was basically admitted by Soon-To-Be-Dead-Monk that her presence was manipulative. Perhaps for a good in universe reason, but still manipulation.

I often have issues with the addition of children in shows for other reasons, because it seems more often than not that the "mother" is expected to behave in certain ways towards babies and children. If they did not want them before, suddenly they do. Like they are being forced to fill a societal role. You can like children but not want to have them, or just straight out not want them.

 

[Moptop]

Are there more examples of this you can think of?

Yeah, any of the evening news programs! I hate it when they specifically call out the number of children involved in whatever tragedy they are reporting on at the moment. It's done just to sway the viewing audiences feelings. I also hate the way organizations use pictures children in commercials to be able to pull harder your heart strings. Should be illegal.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Oh, okay, you mean like this?

 

[NoShip]

There are often long lost children or quickly aged up children in Bold and the Beautiful, but they have it down to an art and I look forward to see what whacky story they have come up with to introduce them. Latest being Luna, Bills long lost daughter who actually isnt his daughter who then framed her mother for poisoning her real father, got caught and then confessed to Bill in prison, who then got her out of prison for reasons yet unknown.

Ya just gotta love those crazy soaps. 😀

 

[Moptop]

a just gotta love those crazy soaps. 😀

OH BOY!

 

[TheMaster666]

Currently watching season 5 of X-Files and (spoilers below)- as in other shows - this is the season where they decide to suddenly introduce a child into Scully’s life.

As in a 5 year old that is literally hers and sends her into a couple of episodes of emotional overdrive and sudden motherhood. It is used later in the season again to drag up this emotional trauma for the character and…



… I hate it.


It feels so manipulative. Suddenly the main motivation for a character one has followed for 5 years has completely shifted with the sudden insertion of a character that immediately is the most important thing in their life.


This is comparable to Dawn on Buffy


To some degree April on Gilmore Girls


And again, I hate it. Because the emotionality of it is unearned. It is forced. The audience is manipulated to care for a relationship that they know nothing about, and have to watch the characters they do know, suddenly become altered but abruptly and without cohesiveness.



Are there more examples of this you can think of?


What do you think of this?


Even if you’re grown to like Dawn, do you agree the method is manipulative?

Really? I don't remember this. Then again I haven't seen the X-Files since like 5 or 6 years ago. But I only remember seeing a "Scully mother/child" relationship drama in the reunion mini-series. The most I remember about motherhood was the final years of the show with the test tube/in vitro baby stuff. I don't recall her having a child at any point in the run. Even as old(er) Scully in 2015 they never actually show you William. (Or maybe they do I only saw a few episodes of the reunion as it never impressed me).

 

[thrasherpix]

I looked it up and what I'm remembering about Scully with a child was "Emily" who she actually thought was the daughter of her sister. I may give it a rewatch (it's a two-parter at least) just to refresh my memory, but I'm still rewatching Angel season 5 with other things to see after I'm done.

 

[hoponlilmama]

I guess the plus side of Dawn's manipulation was that even in the show it was basically admitted by Soon-To-Be-Dead-Monk that her presence was manipulative. Perhaps for a good in universe reason, but still manipulation.

I often have issues with the addition of children in shows for other reasons, because it seems more often than not that the "mother" is expected to behave in certain ways towards babies and children. If they did not want them before, suddenly they do. Like they are being forced to fill a societal role. You can like children but not want to have them, or just straight out not want them.

The real-life equivalent being, "But it's different when you have your own child!" or "You'll feel differently when you have your own baby".

 

[NotASlayer]

The real-life equivalent being, "But it's different when you have your own child!" or "You'll feel differently when you have your own baby".

That is almost exactly what Bernadette, who did not want children, says to Penny in The Big Bang Theory. Now, true, if it is your own child, you may feel differently, whether you want to or not, but that is not the same thing as wanting children in the first place. I dislike the notion that the only way for a woman to have a fulfilling life is to have children.

 

[hoponlilmama]

That is almost exactly what Bernadette, who did not want children, says to Penny in The Big Bang Theory. Now, true, if it is your own child, you may feel differently, whether you want to or not, but that is not the same thing as wanting children in the first place. I dislike the notion that the only way for a woman to have a fulfilling life is to have children.

100% agree.
I actually did watch the scene(s) you mention from BBT. I was surprised it was included, and Bernadette was pushing in such a manner.

Also, there is no guarantee you will like having a child/parenthood, even if you do happen to have one. And it's not like a piece of clothing - you can't return this particular item!!

The elephant in the room is; there are people out there who do regret having a child.

 

[NotASlayer]

100% agree.
I actually did watch the scene(s) you mention from BBT. I was surprised it was included, and Bernadette was pushing in such a manner.

I was also annoyed with the end of the show for a similar reason, especially when compared to Raj's ending.

Spoiler for literally the last couple of episodes.

Spoiler

Raj ended the show single (that was not a date with SMG!), the idea being it was possible to have a rich and fulfilling life without being in a relationship, with good and close friends. Penny, having said she didn't want children, ended the show pregnant. Apparently it is not possible for a woman to have a rich and fulfilling life without children (Amy was not pregnant, but it was made clear she and Sheldon were going to have kids).

Also, there is no guarantee you will like having a child/parenthood, even if you do happen to have one. And it's not like a piece of clothing - you can't return this particular item!!

The elephant in the room is; there are people out there who do regret having a child.

"Bored now" is not, I believe, an acceptable reason for returning a child.

Unless it is someone else's! Other people's children are great; once you have had enough, you can give them back!

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2025

@hoponlilmama Yes, that ending did break the mould; sadly, Penny's did not. I felt if they were brave enough to do what they did for Raj, they should have been brave enough to do the same for Penny.

 

[Moptop]

Other people's children are great; once you have had enough, you can give them back!

That's what so great about being a grandparent, you can spoil the crap out of them and then they will eventually go home!

 

[NotASlayer]

That's what so great about being a grandparent, you can spoil the crap out of them and then they will eventually go home!

To the best of my admittedly second hand knowledge on the subject, I believe it is rather tricky to get grandchildren without having children first.