Only real issue with Xander

[MergedLoki]

So xander's not my fav but as i've said in another thread xander's got my respect for being so loyal and tenacious to the scooby cause.

My problem is simply with how he was/is written.

come on... in SEVEN years he never got even a TINY bit of training from buffy, or even giles (who was a pretty bad ass fighter in his own right at times), or riley or anything!

I mean he had some lucky breaks in fighting scenes but FAR too often (especially in later seasons it seems) he'd maybe get a punch in but be far more likely to be thrown helplessly to the side of the fight and knocked out or dazed until post. battle.

just something that's kinda annoyed me recently.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I agree... It always bothered me that no one ever tried to train him. I mean, obviously he could throw an ok punch now and then but I'm sure he could have been an even bigger asset to the team if someone would have worked with him.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I agree... It always bothered me that no one ever tried to train him. I mean, obviously he could throw an ok punch now and then but I'm sure he could have been an even bigger asset to the team if someone would have worked with him.

Well, it's HIS responsibility to get help, they're not his parents. 🙂 Really, it reminds me of Cordelia, who took the initiative to get help from Angel to be a better fighter. I just don't see why Xander couldn't have done the same thing.

 

[white avenger]

The same could be said for all of the Scoobies. At some point, no later than halfway through the first season, Giles, Buffy, or both, should have decided that either the gang was going to stay home and do the research and buy the doughnuts, or they were going to have to learn how to fight properly. Amazingly, it took until Season 7 for Buffy to even offer to share her skills and knowledge with anyone, and that was Dawn.

 

[MergedLoki]

The same could be said for all of the Scoobies. At some point, no later than halfway through the first season, Giles, Buffy, or both, should have decided that either the gang was going to stay home and do the research and buy the doughnuts, or they were going to have to learn how to fight properly. Amazingly, it took until Season 7 for Buffy to even offer to share her skills and knowledge with anyone, and that was Dawn.

but the other scoobies didn't necesarily NEED buffy's help. Willow had magic, as does Tara, as does giles when it comes down to it (just not to the extent willow does). everyone else in the scooby gang either had some special power/ability that set them apart from 'normal' humans at least had some training (ala riley).

 

[BuffyElevated]

Maybe Buffy didn't think she needed to teach him... Maybe she thought all that Army knowledge from "Halloween" stayed in his mind and he knew how to use combatives.

 

[GrrArghx]

That was the point of Xander's character though, lol.
He was the 'outcast'. He didn't have special powers, he couldn't fight.
He helped in his own way, as seen in Prophecy Girl, Grave, and episodes like that.

 

[BuffyElevated]

The fact that Xander never had any "special" powers was what made him my favorite character. I liked that in this show of crazy paranormal stuff, there was a regular guy who just wanted to be there for his friends in whatever they were going through, and help in whatever way he could even if that way was only fixing stuff that got broken. 🙂 Not to mention he was wicked funny and cute. 😀

 

[thevikingsgirl]

Plus if he'd gotten training or powers, he couldn't have felt all insecure and whiny about not having any. What would the show have been like then? 😉

 

[Mumrik]

I agree. This is my main complaint about the character Xander and about halfway through season 1 - at the latest after "Prophecy Girl" - he should have gone to Buffy or Giles and said, "Hey, I'd like to learn a little too. I don't want to be completely useless in a fight." (The same goes for Willow. She only got to the witch stuff later.)
I'm not even talking Riley-Initiative-POW POW-training, just basic self-defense would have sufficed. He could be shown as clumsy and completely untalented - maybe even forgetting the right move when it counts in the earlier seasons - which really isn't out of character for the Xander we know.

Plus if he'd gotten training or powers, he couldn't have felt all insecure and whiny about not having any. What would the show have been like then? 😉

I politely disagree. He'd have plenty to feel insecure about, because he still would have been "the one without powers, the one who isn't special" if he'd have gotten even a little training.

 

[sosa lola]

Actually, Xander was great with the bow and arrow. I guess he trained himself sometime between S5 and S6. Remember that great shot at the bringer's hand in Dirty Girls? And Buffy joked about his inablity to shoot arrows anymore after he lost his eye in End of Days. That was probably his thing. The sad thing about Xander is that the writers didn't really give the character much thought or focus after S3. So, you can call that lazy writing. Because Xander was great at something but we were never shown HOW he got to be good at using the bow and arrow.

 

[crazysoulless]

I really don't think it was initiatve on Cordelia's part to be trained by Angel. It didn't happen until S3, her last real year alive (posessed in S4, dead in S5). I felt like the reason the writers did that was to have ample opportunity to pimp out Cangel. It had Angel doing Thai Chi with her like he used to do with Buffy. Fred was watching them and calling them Kyrumption even though the word is supposed to apply to equals and as Angel's employee and student that put him above her level in a way. When Wesley says that maybe he should train Fred, Cordelia links "training someone" as a thinly veiled romantic ploy.

S8 spoilers.

Spoiler

Buffy sees Xander training for future sparring sessions with the Slayer Renee.

 

[sosa lola]

I really don't think it was initiatve on Cordelia's part to be trained by Angel. It didn't happen until S3, her last real year alive (posessed in S4, dead in S5). I felt like the reason the writers did that was to have ample opportunity to pimp out Cangel. It had Angel doing Thai Chi with her like he used to do with Buffy. Fred was watching them and calling them Kyrumption even though the word is supposed to apply to equals and as Angel's employee and student that put him above her level in a way. When Wesley says that maybe he should train Fred, Cordelia links "training someone" as a thinly veiled romantic ploy.

S8 spoilers.

Spoiler

Buffy sees Xander training for future sparring sessions with the Slayer Renee.

I totally agree. Cordelia only decided to learn how to fight when the writers wanted her to be more equal to Angel because she was going to be his love interest -notice she's also gone blonde, I think they were trying too hard to turn her into Buffy.

If Xander was going to be Buffy's love interest, you'd have seen the writers giving him a lot of attention and building him up to be Buffy's equal, too. Just like Cordelia.

If you guys wanna see a more fit Xander, who trains, and becomes a better fighter, I suggest you start reading S8. His character progression and growth is very impressive. 🙂

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I totally agree. Cordelia only decided to learn how to fight when the writers wanted her to be more equal to Angel because she was going to be his love interest -notice she's also gone blonde, I think they were trying too hard to turn her into Buffy.

If Xander was going to be Buffy's love interest, you'd have seen the writers giving him a lot of attention and building him up to be Buffy's equal, too. Just like Cordelia.

If you guys wanna see a more fit Xander, who trains, and becomes a better fighter, I suggest you start reading S8. His character progression and growth is very impressive. 🙂

Turn Cordelia into Buffy? I definitely didn't see that, at all. I've always seen it as trying to change her into more or less a "Saint" complete with softer looks and blond hair in order to make her ascension more believable. After all, who would believe that the girl with dark brown hair and a spunky attitude would become a higher being? 🙂 Buffy had nothing to do with it imo.

As for S8 Xander, he's pretty awesome, but it took him long enough. 😀

 

[Chris2]

Well, Xander did effectively get combat training, when he got all his military knowledge in "Halloween". But the show mostly seemed to forget about that, and it only came up when it was crucial to the plot. In fact, by mid-S4 he had apparently forgotten it all, which does bug me - he really should have been keeping those skills sharp given that he has to fight fairly regularly.

 

[crazysoulless]

I sincerely doubt that all Higher Beings are white blondes. Jasmine was played by Gina Torres and she was a fallen PTB. I fully agree though that there were blonde versus brunette stereotypes in the Buffyverse. When Willow went "dark" her hair became jet black. The blond haired Tara was the "good" witch. Faith was the dark Slayer while the fair-haired Buffy was the paragon of heroism. Anya had dark hair during most of her vengeance days and when she became human became blonder and blonder only to return to dark roots when she returned to vengeance. However, it didn't mean that was the case every time. Kendra and Nikki were great and moral Slayers and both were of African descent. The Shadow Men were African but a lot of the WC with all of their negative qualities were white. Dawn was the "human" and "always innocent" part of Buffy and she was very dark haired. Fred in my opinion, was the "heart" of the AI team and she had long dark hair.

I don't think (even with the appearance change) there was anything believable about her "ascension" storyline. She did not know how to use the few paranormal abilities she was given and thus had no opportunity to abuse them. Receiving those powers meant that she didn't have to die and got to keep the visions which she desperately wanted in order to feel like a useful member of AI (Angel was the superpowered leader, Fred & Wesley were the "brains", Lorne had Empath abilities, Gunn was a warrior and former group leader). It was never mentioned what kind of demon she became and she had absolutely nothing negative happen because she became part demon. Look at what happens to the girls that become Slayers; violent tendencies, lose some of their ability to connect to humanity, hunger (including sexual) from having slain or fought. The episode that lead to her getting the powers (Birthday) had Skip place her in a fake alt-world that would never have happened. Angel would not have turned crazy from being given the visions (and if they were trying to say that Vocah touched him instead of Cordy in To Shanshu in LA then I think Wesley would've contacted Sunnydale *and the powerful witches* to help undo it) and Cordelia wouldn't have been given her own series since it was made clear that she couldn't act or sing and she continued to go on audtions the first two seasons of AtS. Where did her sudden sympathy for Angel's plight come from if she hadn't of joined AI? Sunnydale Cordy didn't care about him in the slightest. She could feel that the alt-world was fake and wasn't about to have her very existence be a lie, she would constantly feel the wrongness of her every action since it wasn't the "real" world.

I think that Xander started training between The Gift and Bargainning #2. He gained a considerable amount of muscle those five months Buffy was dead. It could have come from hard work as a construction worker though. He became less toned when he started binge eating due to wedding stress.

We don't know if Xander would have had the capability pre-S8 to learn how to fight. Remember that Dawn was a complete spaz that could almost break things just by looking at them in S5 and yet in Grave she can do an impressive roll and say to Buffy, "You think I never watched you?".

 

[sosa lola]

As for S8 Xander, he's pretty awesome, but it took him long enough. 😀

I don't think it took him long enough. Like I said, he'd been training before, but everything that is Xander is done off screen sadly. Can you shoot an arrow and aim it so perfectly if it was your first time? I don't think so. He knew how to shoot very well in a couple of occasions in S6 and more in S7, so I can see Xander taking time to train himself between S5 and S6.

Not to mention that Buffy made it clear that slaying isn't Xander or Willow's business. So, I can't picture her or Giles agreeing to train Xander and Willow.

 

[Tome]

Why didn't Xander learn some martial arts or somekind of fighting skills?

I always pondered why that while all his friends had some kind of strength/power, he never felt like he should learn/develop something to be even more useful(I'm not saying he wasn't). In 'Checkpoint' when the Watcher ask him about that, it always annoyed me. Why didn't Xand take it on himself to bring something helpful in the fights to the Gang through all these years? He could have easily learned somekind of martial arts, maybe Taekwondo. Was he just lazy? I know some peoples will point out that it's probably just because Nicholas Brendon didn't practice any of those, but still...

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I'm pretty sure that this thread is the same as this one: https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=49234

But, to answer your question, there's no logical reason behind it. They probably just wanted there to be a few people who couldn't really do much, for balance purposes. There were the book people, the field fighting people, and then the donut run people... 😛

 

[white avenger]

One possible reason that comes to mind is that Joss wanted to make certain that Xander could never seriously qualify as Buffy boyfriend material. Other than Parker, who I try to totally forget about anyhow, Buffy's lovers have been either superhuman or chemically/electronically enhanced and highly motivated warriors. By keeping Xander limited to being "the guy who fixes the windows," with no more skill than a normally experienced street fighter, he is kept out of candidacy for being Buffy's next snuggle puppy. (Sorry, Bander shippers, but that's just what it seems like to me, despite mixed signals from early Season 8)