Possible Storyline to Make Spike Interesting

[Silverspike]

Really? Oh well If thats how you want to see it who am I to argue. 🙂

 

[thetopher]

So nothing to do with the fact that by then so many readers had found this cracktastic piece of drivel so appalling that they'd stopped reading? To lay all that at just one character turning up at the very end

Uh, I believe I said TWO vampires. 🙄

But the thing about the Angel/Twilight crap is that it at least led somewhere- the excellent A&F spin-off. What did Spike's appearance lead to? The Buffy-pregnancy fiasco that ruined a lot of S9 (Buffy's a robot and nobody knew!) and turned even more people off the comic.

Any character written that dully will turn people off.

Yes, and in the Buffy comics that is Spike. Spike lacks direction and purpose beyond Spuffy. The writers don't seem to know what to do with him except stick him on the front of every other cover with Buffy. It's dull and forced.

Oh and I am looking forward to the crap-tastic 'Into The Light' being laid out for us all because, depending on the timeline, it may make Spike in S7 even worse than he already was.
And you can't even blame Joss oe some-anti Spike writer, you can thank JM for forcing it on us all. 😛

Yeah, right.....

Nice rejoiner./ sarc.

 

[EVIL UU]

Spike lacks direction and purpose beyond Spuffy. The writers don't seem to know what to do with him except stick him on the front of every other cover with Buffy.

Well, to be fair it seemed like Spike was about to head into a new direction in the beginning of the season. He was figuring stuff out, he was getting closer to the scoobies, he was even ready to move on from Buffy and then...of course, Buffy ruined everything =͟͟͞͞( •̀д•́)))

 

[Silverspike]

I was going to try and write a proper response, but just just couldn't muster the energy to do so as all it ends up being is a case of 'rinse and repeat'. But what I will say is sometimes I marvel at how some people manage get the energy to keep the hatred going for certain characters for so long, because bar finding Andrew irritating I don't think I dislike any Buffyverse character.

But hey, 'horses for courses' and all that. 🙂

 

[vellavu]

I was going to try and write a proper response, but just just couldn't muster the energy to do so as all it ends up being is a case of 'rinse and repeat'. But what I will say is sometimes I marvel at how some people manage get the energy to keep the hatred for certain characters going for so long, because bar finding Andrew irritating I don't think I dislike any Buffyverse character.

But hey, 'horses for courses' and all that. 🙂

I myself don't hate him. I love him. He is my top 5 Buffyverse character. But I see a tendency of character assassination like Cordy's happening here.

WRT Andrew, I think he is great in the show, who is in fact a relatively new (less stereotypical) kind of nerd type than Joanathan. But he appears too much in the comic.

 

[The Bronze]

Except, we can't actually have that guy back. Take away Spike's soul, he still won't be that guy because of the way he evolved thanks to the chip. It would take a lot for Spike to turn evil again and I just don't think that DH want to put in the effort right now to do that.

I think they could do it without an awful lot of difficulty. It would take something like Buffy breaking up with him and then losing his soul shortly afterwards. Then you'd have soulless, chipless and rejected Spike. There'd probably be a lot of complaints about treading old ground and character regression if they went that route though. Classic evil Spike was cool though so I wouldn't be completely against it.

Uh, falling comics sales as soon as the two vampires show up in S8?

Is that true? I thought sales fell fairly steadily from a big start as a lot of people giving them a try decided they weren't for them. Also didn't the vampires only show up for the last arc or two meaning that if sales took a hit it might have been from people giving up because of the previous arc? I'm sure I remember a talk of people calling it a day around the retreat arc.

 

[EVIL UU]

It would take something like Buffy breaking up with him and then losing his soul shortly afterwards. Then you'd have soulless, chipless and rejected Spike. There'd probably be a lot of complaints about treading old ground and character regression if they went that route though.

In my opinion that old Spike, as cool as he was, simply does not fit into the new rules. At the end of the day he's only a vampire in a world that has been learning how to deal with vampire violence. As an antagonist the old Spike was mysterious and formidable but now he would be anything but because the scoobies changed so much - they are more confident, experienced, powerful, more everything, really. And he is...not.

 

[gite63]

Is that true? I thought sales fell fairly steadily from a big start as a lot of people giving them a try decided they weren't for them. Also didn't the vampires only show up for the last arc or two meaning that if sales took a hit it might have been from people giving up because of the previous arc? I'm sure I remember a talk of people calling it a day around the retreat arc.

Didn't Joss himself say he went overboard with S8, and they would go back to the basics in S9?

And after S8 and Angel: After the Fall, why did Joss dismantled the Fang Gang, brought Spike back to BtVS and paired Angel with Faith?

And why there is so much Spuffiness in S10? Do you think that those people don't do a little of market research? (I think they do, because, really, there has been too much Spuffiness in S10, even I recognize that).

Besides, dropping in comic sales (hard copies) has many factors, one of them could be the economic crisis that started in 2007, 2008, or that people are preferring digital copies nowadays, for instance – and don't forget the collections: volumes and library editions. So, to put blame on a specific character or plot is very simplistic.

I think they could do it without an awful lot of difficulty. It would take something like Buffy breaking up with him and then losing his soul shortly afterwards. Then you'd have soulless, chipless and rejected Spike. There'd probably be a lot of complaints about treading old ground and character regression if they went that route though. Classic evil Spike was cool though so I wouldn't be completely against it.

Making Spike evil again would be a HUGE step back, throwing away a long and beautiful journey, and it definitely would destroy the character. For good. Which some people would love, of course...

Except, we can't actually have that guy back. Take away Spike's soul, he still won't be that guy because of the way he evolved thanks to the chip.

I totally agree... remember when Angelus said that he hated Buffy because she made him feel love? In Spike/William's case it could be something positive, even if he wasn't with Buffy anymore. He could struggle with some moral concepts, but to go back to be evil, I don't think so.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Besides, dropping in comic sales (hard copies) has many factors, one of them could be the economic crisis that started in 2007, 2008, or that people are preferring digital copies nowadays, for instance – and don't forget the collections: volumes and library editions.

Digital copies still count towards sales. I think piracy is partly to blame as well. There are many sites where you can illegally download the comic, or simply read it online. Hell, a poster here even posted a link to one such illegal site a month or so ago. I think the general consensus nowadays among many people is it ain't stealing if you arent the one stealing it. But reading the comic online or downloading is still stealing. And I do think that is part of the comic sales (in general, not just buffy) decline.

 

[gite63]

There are many sites where you can illegally download the comic, or simply read it online.

Yeah, piracy! I forgot that.

Digital copies still count towards sales.

What I heard is that digital sale numbers are a mistery - the numbers released are about the hard copies only.

 

[thetopher]

But what I will say is sometimes I marvel at how some people manage get the energy to keep the hatred going for certain characters for so long, because bar finding Andrew irritating I don't think I dislike any Buffyverse character.

So its okay to hate Andrew, but not the character you like?

For the record I don't hate Spike's character in the comics, I just think he's dull and could be used better. He's a vampire, shouldn't he be, I dunno, interesting? Edgy? Layered?

Classic evil Spike was cool though so I wouldn't be completely against it.

I would. I don't want Spike to go backwards, I just want him not to be dull. And at the moment he's dull. For a consistent amount of seasons his storylines have basically been about Buffy and nothing else.

In fact its difficult to remember that he's a vampire since he basically just acts like a guy who happens to have superpowers. He occassionally has to walk around in the day with a blanket/coat on and that's it.
Characters are, to a certain extent, defined by their weaknesses/character faults. Look at Xander in the series, or hell Andrew- I may hate his character but at least I know his character.

Is that true? I thought sales fell fairly steadily from a big start as a lot of people giving them a try decided they weren't for them.

Sales figures are tricky to analyse- comic fans pick up Buffy now and again dependant on the covers/content/buzz. The decline did start before the Twilight sage but it dipped up and down a few times. It only started steadily descending after it- and didn't recover even into Season 9.

But the two things that have damaged to Buffy comic brand were the Twilight plotline, and the Buffy-bot pregnancy plot. Both were stupid, insulting and killed the interest that a lot of readers had in the fanchise. Permenantly.

 

[Silverspike]

"So its okay to hate Andrew, but not the character you like?"

*sigh* Show mw where I said hate? I said "irritating" Not the same thing.

 

[thetopher]

Show mw where I said hate? I said "irritating"

You also used 'dislike' about Buffy characters I assumed that you were referring to Andrew. My bad.

But you're the only one in this thread who has used the word 'hatred' in regards to Spike or the discussion about him. Everyone else is figuring out how to make Spike more interesting/original and take him in a new direction.

 

[Silverspike]

Good for them then. We all need a hobby. 😀

 

[white avenger]

It's easy to say, "Spike's (or any other character) dull and boring. Let's make him more interesting." The problem is, just about anything that could be done with the character falls under the "Been there, done that" heading. Focus on his character development as a major part of the Season, and someone is going to complain that he's taking time away from the "real" stars of the show. Relegate him to being simply the Robin to Buffy's Batman, and someone is going to say that he's dull and boring, contributes nothing to the story line, and is basically just there to be Buffy's snuggle puppy.

What, specifically, do you think could be used to make Spike a more interesting and more important member of Buffy's team that hasn't already been done with someone else, sometimes more than once? Lose his soul and turn evil? It's been done. Leave Buffy for her own good? Been done. Lose his powers and become human? Been done. Split him into two personalities, William and (evil) Spike? Been done. Send him to hell? Been done. Swap his consciousness with someone else (Buffy? Xander? Andrew?) Been done. Be captured and tortured by some super powered Big Bad?That's been done. So, what's left that's both new and interesting? Just saying, "They need to do something to with Spike to make him more interesting" doesn't offer any sort of answer, it just restates the original question.

Short of going into politics and being elected Governor of California, (which, come to think of it, might be rather interesting, especially if it were discovered that the State Legislature had became overrun with vampires and demons) what is left for Spike to do that is unique and interesting?

 

[thetopher]

Good for them then. We all need a hobby.

*sigh* then why even respond to this thread at all? I mean, if you don't have anything you want to contribute?

What, specifically, do you think could be used to make Spike a more interesting and more important member of Buffy's team that hasn't already been done with someone else, sometimes more than once?

How about setting out to successfully kill his sire? Something that Angel could never manage with Darla? Drusilla's still around after all, and she's still very dangerous. And Angel seems unable to complete that particular deed himself.
It would take a lot of work but it would be interesting, especially given that Spike (pre-soul) and Drusilla were much closer that Darla And Angelus.

Or being a full-time liason with the SFPD- working with cops instead of Scoobies (with his own mini-series no less?)

Go and check out the other Hellmouth where Robin Wood is? They could have some sort of reckoning/reconciliation and team up to fight some Big Bad. Sure there are slayers guarding the place (but Cleaveland is a big place) but we don't know what happened to them post-Twilight. Maybre they bugged out.

Whether or not you think these suggestions are good (I came up with them in about 2 minutes) they are fresh places to take Spike that might mean that his character develops/changes/grows in interesting ways.
The guy isn't Angel- brooding in the shadows or helping the helpless (like he's still doing in Magic Town), Spike knows better how to interact with humans/humanity in general- so writers could take him into situations that would no fit with Angel's standoffish character.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

What, specifically, do you think could be used to make Spike a more .. important member of Buffy's team

That's the problem, as far as I am concerned. As long as he is on Buffy's team he is a shell of a character. There is no way he can be more important unless they fabricate this lover angle. It's not about being more important member of the team, it's about being a better character.

 

[Silverspike]

"*sigh* then why even respond to this thread at all? I mean, if you don't have anything you want to contribute?"

I replied to correct your assumption that I hated Andrew.

 

[white avenger]

Whether or not you think these suggestions are good (I came up with them in about 2 minutes) they are fresh places to take Spike that might mean that his character develops/changes/grows in interesting ways.
The guy isn't Angel- brooding in the shadows or helping the helpless (like he's still doing in Magic Town), Spike knows better how to interact with humans/humanity in general- so writers could take him into situations that would no fit with Angel's standoffish character.

I do think that your suggestions are good.

The setting out to kill Dru seems somewhat similar to Buffy and Angel in Season 2, but different enough that it might work, assuming that Joss would allow Dru to actually be killed, and if she isn't, it's just an exercise in futility.

Spike having to work with Robin Wood could lead to all kinds of excitement and drama, but why would there have to be any reconciliation? In fact, how COULD there be? Robin sees the monster who kills his mother every time that he looks at Spike. Nothing is apt to change that, but why should it have to be changed? Having the two of them be forced to work together when neither one trusts the other could make for a very interesting story.

Personally, though, I'm really beginning to like the "Governor Spike" idea. If Schwarzenegger can do it, why can't Spike?

 

[gite63]

How about setting out to successfully kill his sire?

That's a good idea - and maybe it will happen, since Archaeus went to London, Dru too could be relocated: Angel & Faith (#25) will end sooner than BtVS (#30). Spike, for some reason, would have to kill Dru - or Buffy kills her...

Or being a full-time liason with the SFPD- working with cops instead of Scoobies (with his own mini-series no less?)

Actually, I suggested that some months ago, and said that I would read a mini Supernatural C.S.I. with Spike!

Go and check out the other Hellmouth where Robin Wood is? They could have some sort of reckoning/reconciliation and team up to fight some Big Bad. Sure there are slayers guarding the place (but Cleaveland is a big place) but we don't know what happened to them post-Twilight. Maybre they bugged out.

Also not a bad idea.

Of course, Spike and Buffy would be together in all these scenarios.