Question about the vampire who killed Faith's watcher

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drusillaforever

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Alright, so in the first episode with Faith we learn that her watcher is killed by this vampire who really scares Faith. What's up with this guy? First off, they said that he is one of the oldest vampires, so old that he has hoofs. How does that work? When vampires get old their body changes? To become goatlike? Also, what special powers did he have, that Faith was so scared of him? And who are his henchmen?

Thanks.
 
Im not really sure, I have often wondered about this as well, because Giles said that The Master was one of the oldest on record. But he didnt have hooves, but when he was dusted his bones remained, and they said it was because he was so old. But when Kakistos was dusted all of him dusted, so it makes me wonder who is older the Master or Kakistos? And why was one of them old enough to have hooves, but not have his bones remain, and vice/versa???
 
Maybe there are different races within the vampire-species? Or maybe the transformation process within each vampire is slightly different with a focus being on different elements that fit better with that individual's previous human form?
 
drusillaforever said:
First off, they said that he is one of the oldest vampires, so old that he has hoofs. How does that work? When vampires get old their body changes?
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No it just means that a really long time ago all vampires looked like that more or less. Which indicates that Kakistos was older than the Master. But I think the two of them were quite different. Did the fac tthat the Master's bones weren't distroyed have anything to do with how old he was? Are we told that? I can't remember.. I just always thought it had something to do with how powerful he was.. I mean a lot of weird things goes on with the Master, so he's gotta be quite special.
And I never thought Kakistos had special powers really, I just assumed he was really strong and cruel and that's why Faith was so scared of him, she had seen what he was capable of.
 
Don't forget that we have already seen the true face of the species of demon that inhabits the vampire. When Angel was in Pylea the barriers between his human side and his demon side broke down, showing us exactly what the demon inside looked like. That would suggest that if it was a simple a matter as the older vamps started to look more and more like their demon side then they should all be altering to look more like what we saw Angel become.

The fact that the older vamps (the Master, Kakistos, etc) all seem to be developing along different routes suggests to me that there is no specific end look to the physical form of an ancient vampire and that it has no real connection to the true form of the demon inside. You could have two vamps, maybe both around a thousand years old, and yet they may have evolved totally different demonic features. It may well be a totally random process, in the same way two aging human beings can look totally different.
 
I agree, The Watcher.

The older that a vampire gets, he/she resembles more closely the inner demon. The Master may or may not have been the oldest vampire (I'm thinking that there was something mystical about the Master... and the normal rules wouldn't apply to him)

Faith was scared of Kakistos because he had defeated her. She hadn't really faced before, and paired with the brutal killing of her watcher (which she witnessed) Faith was terrified.
 
The Watcher said:
The fact that the older vamps (the Master, Kakistos, etc) all seem to be developing along different routes suggests to me that there is no specific end look to the physical form of an ancient vampire and that it has no real connection to the true form of the demon inside. You could have two vamps, maybe both around a thousand years old, and yet they may have evolved totally different demonic features. It may well be a totally random process, in the same way two aging human beings can look totally different.
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Hm, I never looked at it this way.. never thought it had anything to do with the aging, just assumed that's what vampires looked like a long time ago, guess I was wrong lol..
 
eponinethen said:
Hm, I never looked at it this way.. never thought it had anything to do with the aging, just assumed that's what vampires looked like a long time ago, guess I was wrong lol..
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Don't ask me for a specific source, because i haven't got one, lol, but i remember reading on several occasions that the way that the Master and Kakistos appeared was down to them aging and their demonic visages becoming more permanent. Basically the longer a vampire lives the less it is able to revert to it's human face. Something along those lines.

At a guess i would say that this might have been mentioned in The Monster Book but my ex girlfriend still has my copy of that and i doubt she will be giving me it back anytime soon! 😀
 
The Watcher said:
Don't ask me for a specific source, because i haven't got one, lol, but i remember reading on several occasions that the way that the Master and Kakistos appeared was down to them aging and their demonic visages becoming more permanent. Basically the longer a vampire lives the less it is able to revert to it's human face. Something along those lines.
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Makes sense, just never thought of it, I'm not too smart that way lol 😉
 
The Watcher said:
Don't ask me for a specific source, because i haven't got one, lol, but i remember reading on several occasions that the way that the Master and Kakistos appeared was down to them aging and their demonic visages becoming more permanent. Basically the longer a vampire lives the less it is able to revert to it's human face. Something along those lines.
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Just to back you up on that, I definitely remember reading that as well, But I am also not sure where, I have the monster book as well so it could have been!
 
Black Eye Guy said:
Just to back you up on that, I definitely remember reading that as well, But I am also not sure where, I have the monster book as well so it could have been!
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Yeah, i knew i remembered reading it, just wish i could find an online source for that particular fact!

Gimme time, i will do! lol! 🙂
 
The Master was stated as being the Oldest Vampire alive wasnt he? But each vampire has a different demon inside of them; some make you more vicious while others dont.

The Master as he aged started to resemble more of a bat/Urber vamp.

I just think they meant in Buffy that as Vampires get more older, they just start taking on more features of demons, no specific demons though. Some can start to look like Urber Vamps while others do not.

But all in all, I agree with TheWatcher.
 
I wondered about this for a long time but came to a conclusion, possibly garbage, that the vampire's attitude, temperament, etc. was responsible for the way they ended up looking. Just like people's personality can effect the way they look. Someone who worries all the time may have lots of frown lines and a downturning mouth, someone angry might have a sharp crease between their eyes or something, someone happy might of lots of laugh lines.

So my thought was that maybe The Master saw himself as the pinacle of the vampire world so with time came more and more to resemble an ubervamp. Kokistos may have relished the demonic side of things, the whole idea of being evil, maybe was into Biblical concepts of demons, something like that. So he in time came more to resemble the Christian idea of what a demon looks like.

Like I said, probably garbage... I'm not even sure if I'm explaining the concept well...
 
I should point out that the vampires and the Turok Han were not directly related. The type of demon that infests a vampire was the breed we saw Angel turn into in Pylea, whilst the Turok Han had similar origins but were a different type of demon. For example, Turok Han were never human beings, they came into existence in the form you see them.

Giles described the differences in the best way possible with this line ...

What you fought was a vampire but it was something more than that. It was a Turok-han. As Neanderthals are to human beings, the Turok-han are to vampires. Primordial, ferociously powerful killing machines, as single-minded as animals. They are the vampires that vampires fear. An ancient and entirely different race and, until this morning, I thought they were a myth.
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So, although you have similarities in what they are, they are not, strictly speaking, related and there is no reason why The Master, or any other vampire for that matter, would start to resemble one.
 
The Watcher said:
I should point out that the vampires and the Turok Han were not directly related. The type of demon that infests a vampire was the breed we saw Angel turn into in Pylea, whilst the Turok Han had similar origins but were a different type of demon. For example, Turok Han were never human beings, they came into existence in the form you see them.

Giles described the differences in the best way possible with this line ...



So, although you have similarities in what they are, they are not, strictly speaking, related and there is no reason why The Master, or any other vampire for that matter, would start to resemble one.
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Hmmm... Good point. If the Turok Han is one completely different race, then why can't there be more? So The Master and Kokistos were from different races of old vampires, that's an interesting addition to the mythology...
 
Tucker's Cousin said:
Hmmm... Good point. If the Turok Han is one completely different race, then why can't there be more? So The Master and Kokistos were from different races of old vampires, that's an interesting addition to the mythology...
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Umm ... nope, not really what i was saying. Kakistos and the Master were both regular vampires that had aged and began to randomly develop demonic features over the years. I was simply trying to remove the Turok Han from this because it confuses the issue.

All we know for a fact is that whatever changes occur to the vampire's human host body as they age is probably unrelated to the true form of the demon inside. Otherwise all ancient vampires would start to look like Angel did in Pylea. From that, my guess is that there is no pattern and that the changes for each individual elder vamp will be totally random.
 
Or....could it be that as vampires mixed their blood with the humans they fed on, the ancient blood has become diluted, thus giving the vamps a more human form? Older vamps would be more demonic in appearance, due to less-diluted blood. They wouldn't necessarily be similar in appearance as stated earlier in the thread, but they would be stronger, and more demonic in appearance. I have absolutely no back up for this...just my imagination...
 
The Watcher said:
Umm ... nope, not really what i was saying. Kakistos and the Master were both regular vampires that had aged and began to randomly develop demonic features over the years. I was simply trying to remove the Turok Han from this because it confuses the issue.

All we know for a fact is that whatever changes occur to the vampire's human host body as they age is probably unrelated to the true form of the demon inside. Otherwise all ancient vampires would start to look like Angel did in Pylea. From that, my guess is that there is no pattern and that the changes for each individual elder vamp will be totally random.
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Yeah, I realise that I took one small aspect of what you said and ran with it. But I just don't like the idea of the changes been totally random. Somehow there should be a way of explaining this to add to the mythology, especially since The Master and Kakistos devolved to take on the iconic visages of the bat and the cloven-hoof devil. This is why the idea of different races of vampires appealed to me.
 
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