Racism.

[Ms.Trick]

The other day, I was in a bus. There were only two other people. One of them was black.
The bus doesn't stop all the time. It only stops when you push the button. And as it was at the time where there were not a lot of people who take the bus, the bus wasn't supposed to stop a lot. And yet, it stopped about 5 times without anyone steps off or in the bus.
And at a moment, the driver stops the bus in the middle of nowhere. The driver starts screaming at the black guy: "Off my bus, get off my bus!". I had no clue what was going on, and clearly, the guy had no clue either. And the driver shouted "It's been the fifth time you make me stop for nothing, now just get out of my bus!" and the guy says "But I didn't do it on purpose sir!" and the driver says "Not on purpose? 5 times not on purpose? Are you kidding me?"
The thing is, I've grown up in a district where people would make that kind of jokes all the time and lie about it, saying they didn't do anything, so I could easily recognize when someone lies. And the guys seemed honest. He said "I didn't do it on purpose, it was because of the position of my foot!" and the driver said "Your foot? You push the button with your foot? OUT OF MY BUS!"
And the guy said "I'm not going to get out of this bus, I'm in the middle of nowhere, I must arrive at....in 30 minutes and the next bus is in one hour, I won't get out if I didn't do anything!" so the driver said "I won't ride until you are out" and the guy said "But I DIDN'T DO IT ON PURPOSE, you can see how I sat if you want!". And they keep argue like that for about ten minutes. When they started calling each other racist, I decided to step in. I said to the black guy "show me how you sat" and he lead me to the end of the bus, and showed me. He actually had his feet on the opposite bench and his knee against the button. I said "Oh, I see. So yes, I believe it was not on purpose, but you realize you shouldn't put your feet there in the first place? I'll talk to the driver, see what I can do." So I go to the driver and say "I'm sorry sir, but I've looked how he sat and okay he shouldn't put his feet on the opposite bench but I do believe he didn't do it on purpose. I suggest that he takes now my place, so you can watch him with the mirors and if you see he does it again, then you kick him out. If he sits in my place, you can drive again and keep an eye at him, so you guys can stop fighting".
And the driver said "Yeah that's a good idea but I already called the cops, I wait for them to arrive now".
So the black guy was so pissed and disgusted that he said "You know what? You won you stupid racist! I'm off your bus, happy? Now you can drive."
And the driver said "No. I wait for the police."

And then the guy was embarked by the police.
That whole event kind of upset me, because it was like the more 'violent' of the events alike I had ever seen.

You have on one side the guy who messed up a bit, and on the other side the guy who immediately calls the police. The guy calls the driver a racist, saying "You make such a fuzz about it because I'm black".
And the driver said "It's you who are racist to make the assumption I am racist because things don't go the way you want".

And there I am, the carteron girl who think they are both wrong and a bit right.
The thing is, that's not the first time something like that happens.

I've seen too many times people saying "You are racist" for some reasons.
I mean, if someone insult someone else on it's culture, colour, it is racist.
But calling someone a racist for another reason is also a kind of racism, right?

I mean, saying to the person that she's racist is saying "You do that because I'm coloured and you are white. White people are racist". And that is a racist assumption.

I don't really know what my point is.

Oh, I didn't precise a thing. The driver was Flemish, and the black guy was more from Brussel, so it was a Dutch speaker versus a French speaker. And I think I was so upset because in Belgium, there is racism between Dutch speakers and French speakers, no matter what their colour is, but there is also the mutual racism between white people and coloured people. And in this fight, it was like the apogee, the white Dutch speaker against the black French speaker. And they were racist toward each other.
I was really torn about what I should think.
In the end, I went for "The guy shouldn't have put his feet on the bench, and the driver shouldn't have called the police for that".

And I keep wondering "Would the driver have called the cops if the guy was not black?" and also "Would the guy have called the driver a racist if the driver was, say Moroccan and not Flemish?"

Did you ever live something like that?
Were you ever called a racist while your actions weren't racist?

It's like racism leads to more racism, which leads to everyone being racist with each other.

 

[zobothehobo]

Ehem... I was called a racist a lot by little black kids who had racist parents when I was a little kid... my elementary school was AWFUL with racism. I can't count the times I heard "your great granddaddy owned my great grandaddy." Which by the way is ridiculous because none of my great grandfathers were even HERE before the civil war. My great grandmother's side of the family (my dad's dad's mother) was here... but her family was SUPER poor and in the Northern territories.

My parents raised me pretty much colorblind. I don't notice color a lot... I really don't. But I go to a community college and I take the city/public buses. I'm surrounded by people who's parent's didn't raise them like that on a day to day basis. This is a typical scenario as to something like what you're talking about happening to me. I accidentally bump into a black person while I'm trying to find my bus pass in my bag and walk to the bus at the same time. I say "Oh I'm sorry, I didn't see you." And they say "Why? 'Cause I'm black? Look white bitch, you need to go the f*** away from me right now before I beat your ass. Bumping into me like that. yeah, you didn't see me... f*** you! White racist bitch!"

So in short, yes. I know exactly what you're talking about.

 

[This Year's Girl]

This was a really interesting thread to read. I could tell you put a lot of thought and effort into it. It's really late now, so I won't be coming with anything valuable to say right now, but I wanted to let you know I liked this thread!

 

[prophecygrrl]

Wow, I don't know what I would do in a situation like that. I get really stressed out when people have fights like that in public! It's really impressive how you tried to help out!

I think at some point in our lives, all of us have been accused of something we're not actually guilty of. But I think especially with charges of racism, everyone involved (on both sides of the argument!) should examine if some of the things they are doing are actually racist. Things can be offensive even if someone doesn't intend them to be. Racism is not an easy subject to bring up. Generally speaking, no one actually enjoys pointing out possible racism. Or any -isms, really...sexism, classism, heterosexism, etc. If someone does, it's very possible that they felt prompted to, not just because they'll bring it up for argument's sake.

There are always unfair situations where racism seems pretty irrelevant though, like what Zobo described experiencing on the bus.

 

[Username]

That guy on the bus who kept pushing the button by "mistake", really, even if it was by mistake after he hit the button the second time he should have changed the way he sat, or moved.. and calling the police was a bit overkill, but really stepping in like that like you did, I wouldn't be able have done that.

I don't remember ever being called racist or anything, but I live in an area where there's mostly immigrants from like Albania, Serbia and my dad's friend's family they live in a "nicer" place I guess, and my dad's friend told my dad that he doesn't let his daughters walk through our neighborhood late at night because it's dangerous..
my family has lived here for over 10 years and nothing has ever happened!

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I was never called a racist. Here, we only have one race. We're all white. There are few Asian people in our capital city, but I'm talking about max 10, and I've seen on the news some of the getting bullied. I have one black girl in my class, and I've seen only 2 other black guys in my town, and I don't think there are more than 20 of them in the whole state.. I was never called a racist, but I know some people who are.. and from my experience, those people have no idea what they're talking about.

Now about your case.. I don't think the guy was doing it on purpose, but when he saw he's pushing the button, he should've moved. But on the other side, drive shouldn't have to react like that.

 

[fly on the wall]

I work in retail, and until I did, I never got accused of being racist. Now it happens fairly often. If I catch a black person stealing, for example, I'm racist. No matter the fact that they have stolen merchandise on them and admit it, no, since I saw them do it, I'm racist. (This goes for anyone, even other black people, who confront them, by the way.) It also has happened a few times when someone of a different race cuts other people in line while being rung up. I refuse to ring up people who cut and will tell them, "There's only one line, they were next." Quite a few times, other employees and I have been accused of being racist when this happens. Because we're being fair to other customers, some of whom are different races than ourselves.

I don't know why this occurs so much at my store. But it's frustrating.

I also have friends who don't support Obama for political reasons and have gotten called racist a lot for it. Which is ridiculous.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Did you ever live something like that?
Were you ever called a racist while your actions weren't racist?

It's like racism leads to more racism, which leads to everyone being racist with each other.

Yes, I had a very similar experience on the bus recently.

I was sitting next to an African American lady. She offered me a piece of gum (which was odd) and I politely declined. She then proceeded to flip out, saying I didn't want it because she was black and yelling, calling me a racist. I was completely floored. I had no idea what I had done. She was yelling so much the bus driver asked her to leave the bus.
I think that some people are very sensitive (I might even say paranoid) because they have experienced so much racism in their lives, but you're right, assuming that someone is racist is just perpetuating the cycle.

---------- Post added at 11:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 AM ----------

Ehem... I was called a racist a lot by little black kids who had racist parents when I was a little kid... my elementary school was AWFUL with racism. I can't count the times I heard "your great granddaddy owned my great grandaddy." Which by the way is ridiculous because none of my great grandfathers were even HERE before the civil war. My great grandmother's side of the family (my dad's dad's mother) was here... but her family was SUPER poor and in the Northern territories.

My parents raised me pretty much colorblind. I don't notice color a lot... I really don't. But I go to a community college and I take the city/public buses. I'm surrounded by people who's parent's didn't raise them like that on a day to day basis. This is a typical scenario as to something like what you're talking about happening to me. I accidentally bump into a black person while I'm trying to find my bus pass in my bag and walk to the bus at the same time. I say "Oh I'm sorry, I didn't see you." And they say "Why? 'Cause I'm black? Look white bitch, you need to go the f*** away from me right now before I beat your ass. Bumping into me like that. yeah, you didn't see me... f*** you! White racist bitch!"

So in short, yes. I know exactly what you're talking about.

I totally feel you. This has happened to me, too. I too was raised colorblind in a very diverse neighborhood in Chicago. I grew up playing with all sort of different types of kids.

I work in a predominately black neighborhood, and I get harassed a lot, probably just because I'm white. I work as a counselor (most of my clients are black) and I sometimes get strife for this. My kids have told me that they wonder why I work there, and if I'm one of those "well-meaning white people who try to save the poor black people." It's very frustrating. I combat this by remaining respectful, open, and treating everyone as equals.

The other day in fact I was in the Jack in the Box near my work when a black guy asked me for my number. I said no thanks, and he said "Oh I see it's because I'm black, huh? You too good for a black guy?" Those types of comments really depress me because obviously that wasn't the reason.

We can all fight racism by remaining open-minded and aware of what we say and do and how it effects other. Also, by respecting everyone and never making assumptions about people based on their ethnicity.

 

[Flannen]

I've seen a couple of you mention about being raised 'colourblind' and how that means you don't notice race and it reminds me of this article I read about racism in schools. The writer brought up the fact that many see themselves as being colourblind and thus not racist and this went into a really interesting discussion about how being 'colourblind' can be just as offensive. It was based on the fact that ethnicity is a huge part of someone's life; their background, culture, etc, and how to suggest that we don't notice that must be awful. Which I do think is an incredibly good point. Not particularly relevant but I wanted to chuck it in.

While I can agree that it may seem as if people become paranoid and oversensitive, I think Joan's point is a good one. They probably deal with a heck of a lot more than we realise. It's hard not to lump people together when you've been treated poorly. That's a not reason to suggest it's okay to jump to conclusions, but its understandable. On another side, I think there are far too many people who don't actually realise when they're being racist (on all sides of the argument). I don't think people know what it is to be racist any more, they don't take the time to think about whether what they are doing or what they are saying is in fact offensive or racist. And because the lines are so blurry, there is always confusion. It also reminds me of a research project I did during my A Levels about how differently White people and Black people are portrayed on television. It was eye-opening to say the least.

Anyway there's some incoherent, largely irrelevant rambling, for you!

 

[zobothehobo]

I've seen a couple of you mention about being raised 'colourblind' and how that means you don't notice race and it reminds me of this article I read about racism in schools. The writer brought up the fact that many see themselves as being colourblind and thus not racist and this went into a really interesting discussion about how being 'colourblind' can be just as offensive. It was based on the fact that ethnicity is a huge part of someone's life; their background, culture, etc, and how to suggest that we don't notice that must be awful. Which I do think is an incredibly good point. Not particularly relevant but I wanted to chuck it in.

This brings up something that we talked about in sociology a couple days ago. The term "race" can be defined differently by different people. Right now it's technical definition in the US is the color of someone's skin. It doesn't really have much to do with culture or ethnicity at all. While there are other countries where race is defined more by your ethnicity and where you come from rather than just the color of your skin.

 

[Flannen]

This brings up something that we talked about in sociology a couple days ago. The term "race" can be defined differently by different people. Right now it's technical definition in the US is the color of someone's skin. It doesn't really have much to do with culture or ethnicity at all. While there are other countries where race is defined more by your ethnicity and where you come from rather than just the color of your skin.

I would agree with that, I think. Race and ethnicity can be seen as one and the same but can also be totally separate. Ethnicity, I would suggest, as does this writer, is about culture and background and the like. But regardless of the distinction, I think the way in which being 'colourblind' could be interpreted, still stands. It could just be semantics, but at the end of the day words are all about connotation and I would agree with the connotations of 'colourblind' as suggested by the guy who wrote the article.

 

[Ianigsy]

There are also areas where there's an overlap between a people group and a belief system- so for example it's possible to be ethnically Jewish in that your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and so on were all of the Jewish race, but to have no interest in following the Jewish faith. This can cause problems when evangelical Christians and Muslims see what they perceive as Judaism getting preferential treatment when in fact it's just recognising the hereditary aspect of Jewish identity.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I grew up in a very small farm town in rural Missouri. Even though the people in that town will tell you they're not racist, they're a bunch of liars. Even my own family is very racist, as bad as I hate to admit that. It has lessened a LOT since my sister had two biracial children, but they're still racist.
My parents always raised my sister and me to be kind to everyone we met, regardless of race, religion, etc. but they never wanted us to date outside our own race, which I always thought was so stupid. I never dated anyone outside my race when I was in high school, but I did date a couple of black guys in college. However, once they found out that my dad would have freaked if he met them and found out they were my boyfriends, they dumped me (understandably). My sister is the one who outright rebelled against everything our family ever said about dating outside your race, and she actually prefers to date black men.
One time when we lived in Memphis, my niece and nephew were staying with us and I heard my oldest daughter and my niece arguing. At the time they were around 5 years old, and I heard my daughter say "Well you're ugly 'cause you're black!" I was APALLED. My husband and I are both extremely open-minded people and we are tolerant of everyone, so I immediately called the girls downstairs and sat them down to talk to them. I said "People are like crayons. We come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. Think about how boring a picture would be if you only used one crayon to draw with. But if you use a bunch of different colors, the picture is a lot prettier and you're happier to have it, right? Well the world is like that, and people are the crayons. We are ALL beautiful in our own way, no matter what color we are." The girls seemed to understand that analogy really well, and we've never had an incident like that since then.
Racism just pisses me off. People who think they're better than anyone, no matter if it's because of their color, sex, whatever make me want to smack them.

 

[MandaMeena]

I live in Arizona. A lot of you have heard about what's going on down here I'm sure. My high school had a 60% Hispanic student population. At first, I thought that this meant that the student body would have been more tolerant, but unfortunately this was not the case. Freshman year, they had a big march downtown. A lot of the students wanted to leave campus in order to go, but they were told that they needed to have a parent pick them up and sign them out. But when students started asking to use the phones in the attendance office (which are there for our use), they were denied access. The line eventually grew so long that it wound all the way outside and wrapped around the building. During lunch hour, one white student stood up out of nowhere and threw his cup filled with soda at the people in line. It was insane! The people in line (mostly Hispanic) and the people at the lunch tables (mostly white) just ran at each other and broke out into a HUGE brawl. I kept my distance, but it was just a really horrible day. The positive thing was that since most of the students weren't able to leave (since I'm sure a few of them decided to hop the fence once they were denied phone access), they were kept away from some of the violence that went on at the march (which included rubber bullets and mace from the police).

Another example was a bit more personal. My senior year of HS, I was enrolled in an off-campus health class where we volunteered 3 days a week at the Veterans Hospital. This program has been going on for years at our school, and we all wore these uniforms that looked like nurses' scrubs, which were pretty distinctive. After the bus dropped us back off at our high school early one day, my friend, Jessica and I, started to walk towards Senior square to wait for our next class to start. When we got there, we saw one of the Administrators talking with another group of girls (all of whom were Hispanic) who were also in the program with us. They had gotten back to school before us because they had cars, while Jess and I had taken the bus. They were trying to explain to the admin that they were just waiting for their next class to start since they had gotten back early. She, the admin, however, was having none of it. We heard their conversation as we approached them, and even when we stood next to the girls, the admin just kept insisting that they had just cut class. It wasn't until I chimed in that, "um hey, we just came from the same class too, and now we're just waiting for our 3rd hour to start," that she said
"Oh, well that's ok." and just LEFT! I don't want to think the worst of this lady and say that she only left us alone after the only white girl in the group reiterated what the other girls had been trying to tell her the whole time before she believed us, but... when you live in a place like this, it's hard to see your friends continuously treated like liars and bad people.

/end rant 😛

 

[Ms.Trick]

Oh well, today it happened to me. I was with a friend in the tram and when I entered, I tripped. I accidentally pushed an old lady who was asking her way to the driver. I apologized and sat and started talking with my friend. Then suddenly, the old lady started screaming "Is that too hard to apologized? You pushed me is that too difficult to pay attention?". I was like "Huh?" for a second then I said quietly "Yes, I tripped, I pushed you, I apologized! I'm sorry if you didn't hear it, but sorry again!". Then the driver (also moroccan) stood up and said "Stop with your snobby tune you racist prententious brat and pay attention to people!". I said "I'm sorry, I always pay attention, I always apologize when I accidentally run into someone, what more can I do? I said I don't know how many times that I was sorry!" The driver and the old lady looked at me like I was a snobby disrespectful racist. Then they talked to each other in moroccan looking at me. I looked in the tram to see if people were reacting in any way. The only people who were there were not white and all looked at me like I was a scandalous racist.


Sure, like putting all the blame on me and calling me a racist is going to make things better! I should have replied "You are right, I am racist. Against the ignorants who just perpetuate the racism by being themselves racist".