Reaction to Out of my mind ending?

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I had been asking myself for awhile...if they hate each other THAT much...why haven't one of them killed the other yet? I suspected there was something going on under the surface, some sick fascination ( I know I already had Spike under my skin by that time)

When I saw that I was shocked/thrilled/where did THAT come from, all at the same time. When he woke up and realized the implications I laughed out loud, isn't that just the way it is? I mean really. I've been there myself, loving the one I vowed I'd always hate.

I couldn't wait to see when we'd finally get the pay off on that promise!
 
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
Well said. :)
I was like "OMG, NO. Joss, you CAN'T do this to us." It was a rather unhappy thought. But then, considering I'm Bangel through and through, that would explain why. 😉
 
I was like "OMG, NO. Joss, you CAN'T do this to us." It was a rather unhappy thought. But then, considering I'm Bangel through and through, that would explain why. 😉

LOL. I despise Bangel, it makes me so sick and throw-uppy whenever I watch it. Now, Cordelia and Angel.... 🙂
 
I suspected there was something going on under the surface

YES. Buffy said herself to Xander (I think in "Crush"?) that she knew he had always had this "fascination" with her. There was that sexual tension always surrounding them 🙂
The whole relationship was set up from the beginning.
 
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
Props for you new pic, it's so cute! :)
I had been asking myself for awhile...if they hate each other THAT much...why haven't one of them killed the other yet? I suspected there was something going on under the surface, some sick fascination ( I know I already had Spike under my skin by that time)
The answer to your question is a simple one...they didn't kill each other because Joss didn't wanna make the tweens angry by killing Spike. The fact Buffy didn't kill him season 4 was contrived enough for me...I didn't buy the whole "he's harmless, so we can't kill him" argument. So what if he is? I just never bought that, and Buffy wouldn't have awarded the same courtesy to any other soulless demon.
 
The answer to your question is a simple one...they didn't kill each other because Joss didn't wanna make the tweens angry by killing Spike.

*laughs* You're a great friend of little tweens and teenagers, aren't you? I don't know any one that was that age when they were watching BTVS during that season. Besides, Joss's always done things in the series that've made people angry, and I'm thinking that "making tweens angry" was the furthest thing from his mind during season 4.

The fact Buffy didn't kill him season 4 was contrived enough for me...I didn't buy the whole "he's harmless, so we can't kill him" argument. So what if he is?

I think the explanation kind of says for itself. Besides, they let Anya hang and she was an ex-vengeance demon.


The fact Buffy didn't kill him season 4 was contrived enough for me...I didn't buy the whole "he's harmless, so we can't kill him" argument. So what if he is? I just never bought that, and Buffy wouldn't have awarded the same courtesy to any other soulless demon.

At the same time, I think Buffy trusted him just a tiny bit because of him helping her during season 2 with Angelus. Granted he did it for Drusilla and to get her back, but he still helped her, and I think that's part of the reason why.
 
As usual, I find your logic insane and happenstance, like that of a troll. 😉

In my experience, the younger girls (yourself being a part of that demographic, unfortunately...I mean young girls, not necessarily under 13) are typically the most vocal, and most typically the big fans of the Spuffy ship.

And to me, the not killing Spike never seemed rational or realistic. I think it's easier for you to accept the explanations as given because you're clearly a fan of Spike...I, however, was not convinced.
 
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
'splainy below.
As usual, I find your logic insane and happenstance, like that of a troll. 😉

Why, thank you. I find yours to be like that of Parker's. 😉

In my experience, the younger girls (yourself being a part of that demographic, unfortunately...I mean young girls, not necessarily under 13) are typically the most vocal, and most typically the big fans of the Spuffy ship.

Have you seen the Spuffy shippers on here? Most of them aren't in my age range. In fact, DrusillaRox is anti-Spuffy and she's 13. I think it's the other way around. A lot of younger girls happen to like Bangel a lot more, it's a lot like a fairytale, and thus, Angel.


And to me, the not killing Spike never seemed rational or realistic. I think it's easier for you to accept the explanations as given because you're clearly a fan of Spike...I, however, was not convinced.

I think Joss was able to make it realistic. Maybe it's because he was likeable to most of the audience. I would've preferred it if he'd come back a villain (that would've been awesome), but I think they went into the chip as much as they could to convince us, and it worked.
 
Well, I guess we've just had different experiences in the kinds of fans we've run into.

As unrealistic as I found Buffy not killing Spike...the writing always makes up for it in the end. I could have even forgiven them if they'd made Cordelia bald and fat for an entire season...well, it would have taken me awhile but I woulda found a way...
 
As unrealistic as I found Buffy not killing Spike...the writing always makes up for it in the end. I could have even forgiven them if they'd made Cordelia bald and fat for an entire season...well, it would have taken me awhile but I woulda found a way...

The writing does actually, in my opinion. I think it all depends on who it is that is writing the episode. Hmm, come to think of it, Joss always does things that we never would've expected him to do. That being said, I'm sure Joss would've made their be a certain reason for her being bald... and fat... (laughs), but seriously, Joss gave us nearly a decade of amazing television, and during those years he did the unexpected and most of us came to accept those things. I was a bit reluctant to let go of Bangel at first, but I remember after seeing the first Angel episode that Cordy and Angel'd look fantastic together. 🙂 I NEVER ever thought that that'd be something I'd ship.
 
The Cordy/Angel relationship was just so natural...it felt like a truly well-developed romance where two people started as friends and genuinely grew to truly love and respect the other. It trumps Bangel in every way, in my opinion...
 
Airam
Airam
big agreement on this.
The Cordy/Angel relationship was just so natural...it felt like a truly well-developed romance where two people started as friends and genuinely grew to truly love and respect the other. It trumps Bangel in every way, in my opinion...

It was! I think it's one of the best ships in the Buffyverse. It's mature, it's realistic, and it's progressive. It's really beautiful and I'm 100% sure that Angel's going to end up with Cordy one way or another. That, or he'll always have Cordy in his heart.
 
People discredit the Spuffy relationship. Whether you're a Bangel or Briley fan you need to understand that if it weren't for the relationship with Spike Buffy wouldn't have progressed even further as a character in S6-S7. It made her question whether or not that someone good or evil has a choice and Spike showed that with love and even caring for Dawn. The whole reason Buffy doesn't oogle Spike like she did Angel with love gestures because she didn't know till S7 that Spike truly loved her not the idea of her and that his heart was really in the battle.
 
People discredit the Spuffy relationship. Whether you're a Bangel or Briley fan you need to understand that if it weren't for the relationship with Spike Buffy wouldn't have progressed even further as a character in S6-S7. It made her question whether or not that someone good or evil has a choice and Spike showed that with love and even caring for Dawn. The whole reason Buffy doesn't oogle Spike like she did Angel with love gestures because she didn't know till S7 that Spike truly loved her not the idea of her and that his heart was really in the battle.

Spike has, and always has had something Buffy needs (and it's not in his pants). His personality invites her toward rising to her calling in a realistic way. Not purely as hero and sacricficial martyr, not purely as warrior, but as a multi faceted human. His honesty and impatience with PC sentimentality is refreshing. He doesn't pretend to be what he is not, nor does he need or expect Buffy to be what she is not. He understands her powers, but also her humanity, and he's not imtimidated by either, instead, both aspects attract him, in both dark and light ways.

That is why he is so critical to Buffy's development. He might not have a reflection himself, but he can serve as one for her, when the others aren't up to the task, and he doesnt need or want her to be anything other than what she is.

He doesn't go whining to her to save him, fix him, etc. He knows he can survive without her, he's done it for over a century, but he also knows he wants her in his um, er...existence? lol.

Everyone else is always reminding Buffy of her responsibility to them and the whole world, always putting it on her shoulders, Spike sees her as an individual, not a role. Sure, she's the slayer, but he knows how fallible that is, having taken a few down.

In spite of his self indulgence behavior, he is more mature in many areas than the other characters, he's been around longer. He's seen more, had to put up with more. Has a sense of fearlessness in him, and the brutal honesty that centuries of existence and traveling through cultures and seeing that much of how people and demons operate will give you. He has a perspective the others lack. He is not afraid of his own darkness or that of others, he knows that it serves him and them as critically as the light side of their personalities does.

He's a survivor.

I like Spike, obviously. I'm not blind to his many faults and weaknesses, but I appreciate many aspects of his character and the vital role he serves, for Buffy, and the others when they are willing to take advantage of it.

Comparing Spuffy to Bangel or Briley is pointless, the relationship stems from an entirely different sort of need and attraction, and I'm not talking physical (though it must be a relief to have a man she doesn't have to worry about injuring in bed). It's not about romance, or finding a person to settle down and start a family with, or about being protected, or about being someone's hero, or even the world's hero.

Spike and she are evenly matched, in physical strength, in being survivors, in not having illusions about one another, in not expecting to have the perfect relationship...all that other stuff that gets in the way of people deeply connecting isn't there. It's just them, with all their strengths and vulnerabilities making contact. It's not pretty, but it's honest. And Buffy really needs a dose of honest, no strings attached, hard hitting reality and he's there to provide it. She turns from it, because she still wants the pretty that he can never provide, and the normal life, and the acceptance of her friends, etc. But when she needs honesty, He provides it.
 
R
Relic
very freaking good post and why I'm a fan of both Bangel and Spuffy
People discredit the Spuffy relationship. Whether you're a Bangel or Briley fan you need to understand that if it weren't for the relationship with Spike Buffy wouldn't have progressed even further as a character in S6-S7. It made her question whether or not that someone good or evil has a choice and Spike showed that with love and even caring for Dawn. The whole reason Buffy doesn't oogle Spike like she did Angel with love gestures because she didn't know till S7 that Spike truly loved her not the idea of her and that his heart was really in the battle.
And I wonder why she didn't believe he truly loved her? Attempted rape comes to mind...

In any case, I don't believe Spike contributed to Buffy's development as much as you'd like to think, except maybe allowing her to realize how disgusted she can be with herself. In season 7 she just used him as an emotional crutch like she always did.
 
Purple Poof: I think I undertand what you're saying except:

"In my experience, the younger girls (yourself being a part of that demographic, unfortunately...I mean young girls, not necessarily under 13) are typically the most vocal, and most typically the big fans of the Spuffy ship."

Are you saying only younger girls are into Spuffy? Because that could not farther from the truth 🙂 Or are you saying then only younger girls were into Spuffy? I never watched the show when it aired (I was introduced to it on 2005) so this doesn't really apply to me, per say, although I guess I would have been around 15 when season 5 was on...when was that? 2000?

Ellyce: I understand that you're saying too but it's true that the reason Spike wa kept on as a fullcast member was becaue he wa just so popular. He was originally intended to be a disposable cahracter, and to be killed off in season 3...sad, but true. Good thing everyone liked him 🙂
 
Spike has, and always has had something Buffy needs (and it's not in his pants). His personality invites her toward rising to her calling in a realistic way. Not purely as hero and sacricficial martyr, not purely as warrior, but as a multi faceted human. His honesty and impatience with PC sentimentality is refreshing. He doesn't pretend to be what he is not, nor does he need or expect Buffy to be what she is not. He understands her powers, but also her humanity, and he's not imtimidated by either, instead, both aspects attract him, in both dark and light ways.

That is why he is so critical to Buffy's development. He might not have a reflection himself, but he can serve as one for her, when the others aren't up to the task, and he doesnt need or want her to be anything other than what she is.

He doesn't go whining to her to save him, fix him, etc. He knows he can survive without her, he's done it for over a century, but he also knows he wants her in his um, er...existence? lol.

Everyone else is always reminding Buffy of her responsibility to them and the whole world, always putting it on her shoulders, Spike sees her as an individual, not a role. Sure, she's the slayer, but he knows how fallible that is, having taken a few down.

In spite of his self indulgence behavior, he is more mature in many areas than the other characters, he's been around longer. He's seen more, had to put up with more. Has a sense of fearlessness in him, and the brutal honesty that centuries of existence and traveling through cultures and seeing that much of how people and demons operate will give you. He has a perspective the others lack. He is not afraid of his own darkness or that of others, he knows that it serves him and them as critically as the light side of their personalities does.

He's a survivor.

I like Spike, obviously. I'm not blind to his many faults and weaknesses, but I appreciate many aspects of his character and the vital role he serves, for Buffy, and the others when they are willing to take advantage of it.

Comparing Spuffy to Bangel or Briley is pointless, the relationship stems from an entirely different sort of need and attraction, and I'm not talking physical (though it must be a relief to have a man she doesn't have to worry about injuring in bed). It's not about romance, or finding a person to settle down and start a family with, or about being protected, or about being someone's hero, or even the world's hero.

Spike and she are evenly matched, in physical strength, in being survivors, in not having illusions about one another, in not expecting to have the perfect relationship...all that other stuff that gets in the way of people deeply connecting isn't there. It's just them, with all their strengths and vulnerabilities making contact. It's not pretty, but it's honest. And Buffy really needs a dose of honest, no strings attached, hard hitting reality and he's there to provide it. She turns from it, because she still wants the pretty that he can never provide, and the normal life, and the acceptance of her friends, etc. But when she needs honesty, He provides it.

Very well said. He is her foil, her Shadow.

Hey, you're new I noticed. Welcome! I'm Becky...
 
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