Restoring Souls Is Easy For An Uber Witch

[CharmedSlayer85]

I wonder how come for someone as powerful as Willow she couldn't just attempt to just restore the souls of all vampires, or vampires she knows. Like why couldn't she restore Harmony's soul or say if Gunn were to be turned a vampire like he was suppose to have been according to Amy Acker, or say if Dawn got turned to a vampire, restore her soul instead of having her killed. I'm sure as powerful as she is she could re arrange the Angelus spell a bit to make it fit other vampires, and it'd make things easier for them and the world if there were a bunch of soulled vampires wondering the place. Granted not all of them will be champions like Spike and Angel but I'm sure they probably wouldn't be killing up everyone. Like why not try to restore Drusilla's soul? Just something I was thinking about

 

[Luciferian]

i never really thought of that before....but now come to think of it she ended up using white magic in the end and being as powerful as she was you would think she could do that.... well..... that would certainly make both series change dramatical.

 

[Xin Rong]

I have often wondered about the same thing and the only reason i can think of is that there must be some reason we dont know about. For example in series 6 of angel we see that there should only be one or maybe she didnt do it because its unnatural and shouldnt be done, who knows, not me.

 

[nerd4hire]

It's an inconsistency I've noticed before. Take that scene in Smashed where her and Amy are re-arranging reality. If they have that kind of power, what do they need Buffy for? If they see something they don't like, they can just change it. It's the problem with giving Willow too much power. What can and can't she do with it. I'll bet you Joss deals with that one in S-8. He's not Marti Noxon. He appears to need stuff like that to make sense.

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

I have often wondered about the same thing and the only reason i can think of is that there must be some reason we dont know about. For example in series 6 of angel we see that there should only be one or maybe she didnt do it because its unnatural and shouldnt be done, who knows, not me.

There was no Season 6 of Angel it was only 5 and all that stuff about there only suppose to be one vampire with a soul was all made up by Lindsey
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It's an inconsistency I've noticed before. Take that scene in Wrecked where her and Amy are re-arranging reality. If they have that kind of power, what do they need Buffy for? If they see something they don't like, they can just change it. It's the problem with giving Willow too much power. What can and can't she do with it. I'll bet you Joss deals with that one in S-8. He's not Marti Noxon. He appears to need stuff like that to make sense.

Well you must also remember that Willow and Amy were messing with humans who don't really have any ability, but I see exactly what you're saying. But also you must realize that unless Willow's evil she can't fight. So Willow can't fight people like the first or the uber vamps despite her power she needed Buffy and Buffy apparently needed more help. So Willow couldn't do anything to fight the Turok-Han or even the many other threats that happened throughout Season Six, like Xander getting attacked by Ashanti, or trying to save Cassie from dying, or even stopping the Gnarl demon. But you just brought up a point that I'm going to make a thread about in the season 6 board

 

[nerd4hire]

Well you must also remember that Willow and Amy were messing with humans who don't really have any ability, but I see exactly what you're saying. But also you must realize that unless Willow's evil she can't fight.

Must I now...hmm...let's consider that. What Willow and Amy appeared to be "messing with" was physical matter within this reality. As I remember my Buffyverse vampires are (from as far as what's observable) subject to physical laws in that reality. Take of their heads, they dust. Force a wooden stake through their hearts, they dust. Willow and Amy both showed power in that episode sufficient to dust as many vampires as they wanted with a shrug.

It wasn't that Willow couldn't fight unless she was evil, it was that she chose not to tap into her magic, because she feared the influence it might have on her. She was however quite capable of tapping into that power, as we saw her do when she created the barrier in Showtime, opened the portal in Get It Done, or fought evil Cordy in Orpheus, and returned Angel's soul.

 

[alexa]

Yeah I agree, I think Willow uses the magic when she has to, as opposed to when it's convenient. Having said that I would have enjoyed watching Willow out on patrol to see how she handled it, plus it's fun to watch.. I love 'Into the Woods' (I think) where Willow stakes 2 vamps, very funny.

I get your point CharmedSlayer about how it should be possible... but I think it might be bad storytelling if she could do that so often and easily. I find it much more interesting when Vampires find their human side on their own, like Spike did. I don't know if I'm making sense, been reading Fray and noticed how it's stressed that vampires are 'mere part demon' or something, they are not pure demons.. which finally makes Spike have some sense to him as a unique vampire without a soul.

Hmm.. anyway I've gone off on some tangent. Restoring souls should be easy, but it might be boring. (Yeah, I'm on topic!) 😉

 

[watcher1006]

It's an inconsistency I've noticed before. Take that scene in Smashed where her and Amy are re-arranging reality. If they have that kind of power, what do they need Buffy for? If they see something they don't like, they can just change it. It's the problem with giving Willow too much power. What can and can't she do with it. I'll bet you Joss deals with that one in S-8. He's not Marti Noxon. He appears to need stuff like that to make sense.

Most certainly agree. This witchcraft-magic thing always bothered me. Yeah, what DOES Willow need Buffy for? Remember in Season 7 in "Get It Done" in the meeting at Buffy's house after Buffy buries Chloe Kennedy comes right out and tells her that her power doesn't compare to Willow's.

But I'd already been wondering about that. We got a glimpse of what Willow the Witch could do in "Something Blue" - "Let my will be done", and how! I thought that after Season 5 Willow was indeed the most powerful character in the group, and that the dominating role of witchcraft sort of blurred the original premise of the show (chosen one, one girl in all the world etc. etc.)

Even in the early part of the series witchcraft trumps Buffy's power, in S1 "Witch" and and in S2 "Bewitched, Bothered, And Bewildered". Both times Buffy has to be rescued from its power by Giles.

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

Must I now...hmm...let's consider that. What Willow and Amy appeared to be "messing with" was physical matter within this reality. As I remember my Buffyverse vampires are (from as far as what's observable) subject to physical laws in that reality. Take of their heads, they dust. Force a wooden stake through their hearts, they dust. Willow and Amy both showed power in that episode sufficient to dust as many vampires as they wanted with a shrug.

It wasn't that Willow couldn't fight unless she was evil, it was that she chose not to tap into her magic, because she feared the influence it might have on her. She was however quite capable of tapping into that power, as we saw her do when she created the barrier in Showtime, opened the portal in Get It Done, or fought evil Cordy in Orpheus, and returned Angel's soul.

Which brings me to another point. Are there limits to Willow's power? Because it appears that she's growing stronger and stronger and it gets to the point of what do you need a slayer for if you have Willow? I mean hell I'm sure if Willow wanted to she could reverse the magick the Shadowmen set up and completely wipe out the power of the Vampire Slayer. I mean she's responsible for giving all slayers their power I'm sure she could use that same force and take away the power of all slayers. I mean if she's that powerful how can there really be a force to stop her, I mean granted a humanoid type force, because there are much more powerful higher beings that could possibly take her, but even then not even Jasmine could take Willow on, when she was still in Cordelia's body. And when Willow tried to bring Tara back and that higher creature that appeared to her and told her no when she got pissed she hurt that creature too, so it's like what are her limits? I was under the impression a human body can only obtain so much power before the energy consumes your body and causes you to explode virtually just like what was going to happen to Illyria.

 

[alexa]

I think she was clearly limited in Season 7 because she didn't want to risk turning evil, I'm not sure if she's completely over that fear now even though she went to the light place with the huge slayer spell. Also I'm wondering what happens to Willow's spell in the future because when Fray is called a few hundred years from now she is the *only* slayer. Did Willow stop more slayers from being called after demons are banished from this dimension?.. lots of questions.
I still think there is a use for the slayer, even with uber witches around, it doesn't seem like Willow can make herself as strong as Buffy without using dark magic. Hmm anyway think I'm getting confused with your other thread. 😉 And I'm not sure anyone's paying attention to me anyway 😛

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

Well we don't know if Willow can get as strong as Buffy or stronger without the use of dark magick because she never tried it. But I'm assuming after Buffy and her gang destroy all the demons then like they said in Fray, all magick disappears from the planet, so that would mean all slayer powers disappear because their power came from magick and Willow would lose her power and etc etc. But I wonder if that means Dawn will disappear because the only reason Dawn is still around is because of magick that's keeping her human

 

[Randy Giles]

It's an inconsistency I've noticed before. Take that scene in Smashed where her and Amy are re-arranging reality. If they have that kind of power, what do they need Buffy for? If they see something they don't like, they can just change it. It's the problem with giving Willow too much power. What can and can't she do with it. I'll bet you Joss deals with that one in S-8. He's not Marti Noxon. He appears to need stuff like that to make sense.

I do recall in a special feature on a Buffy DVD where Joss says he writes what he wants and things don't always have to make sense. SOmething along those lines.

And you can't put the blame on an inconsistency like that all on Marti, Joss was still supervising the show. And Willow has been a witch since season two and has always had growing power. Season six took it to the next level and I thought Willow's progression (or degression) made sense within the show.

But I have often wondered why they didn't use Willow to take care of the vampires. I don't think it would be impossible with everything we've seen, unless there's something they haven't mentioned. The fact is they ignore that because there's no story if Willow re-ensouls or kills all the vampires.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

It wouldn't really make sense to re-insoul every vampire, the ritual takes some time and it would take forever to go about souling all those vampires!

Well we don't know if Willow can get as strong as Buffy or stronger without the use of dark magick because she never tried it. But I'm assuming after Buffy and her gang destroy all the demons then like they said in Fray, all magick disappears from the planet, so that would mean all slayer powers disappear because their power came from magick and Willow would lose her power and etc etc. But I wonder if that means Dawn will disappear because the only reason Dawn is still around is because of magick that's keeping her human

The Slayer power doesn't dissapear, it does say in the Fray Comic that girls are still given the power, but never actually called to fight the demons, but the power was still there.

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

It wouldn't really make sense to re-insoul every vampire, the ritual takes some time and it would take forever to go about souling all those vampires!



The Slayer power doesn't dissapear, it does say in the Fray Comic that girls are still given the power, but never actually called to fight the demons, but the power was still there.

Well no in Fray it says a slayer a group of her friends drove all the demons out witch caused magick to disappear from Earth and no slayer was ever called for two hundred years until Fray, now unless Fray was just one chosen and there are still hundreds of slayers around the world that would mean the power had to have disappeared, which makes me wonder how did the power return and how did the demons return

 

[nerd4hire]

I remember it more the way BEG describes. Doesn't Fray say there were still girls with the power, but they weren't "chosen" in the sense they weren't given a watcher with the specific purpose of training to battle demons? Are you sure it doesn't say that? Hang on I'll double-check.

Edit

OK, I've got Fray # 3 sitting in front of me now. Here's what it says.

Urkon
What we do know is this - there was a battle. A slayer, possibly with mystical allies faced an apocalyptic army of demons.

And when it was done...

They were gone. All demons, all magicks banished from this earthly dimension.

Melaka
And the slayer did she...

Urkon
I do not know if she lived, but the demons being gone she was the last to be called.

The line continued - there were girls with the power, but they were never called, never trained.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Well no in Fray it says a slayer a group of her friends drove all the demons out witch caused magick to disappear from Earth and no slayer was ever called for two hundred years until Fray, now unless Fray was just one chosen and there are still hundreds of slayers around the world that would mean the power had to have disappeared, which makes me wonder how did the power return and how did the demons return

No it actually says girls still have the power but were never called to use it. And I don't mean hundreds of girls at a time, but each chosen one was still activate but with no demons were never called by the watchers to fight.

We don't know how the demons returned, but fray had been a slayer for a while thats how she was able to do what she does. My personal theory is that when all magick was banished the extra slayers lost their powers but the actual slayer line still continued.

Ohh there ya go N4H got in there with the quote I couldn't find 🙂

 

[jesterjay]

This is the craziest thought I ever thought about - if they were all en-souled, they still could be all kinds of evil? Free Will comes with the soul right? Also, that's a lot of Vampire Strength crazies running around!

But I think she probably could ensoul other vampires, and while she's at it why not giving Xander a new eye.

 

[white avenger]

Willow never recalled Angel's soul from its place of eternal rest, she simply rejoined soul and vampire on the two occasions that they became seperated. She only managed t resurrect Buffy with the help og the diety Osiris. When Spie went in search of his soul, he went to a demon, not a shamen, wizard, sorcerer, or witch. It would therefore be safe to assume that the restoration of the soul is beyond the power of an unassisted human. We have no idea just what the origonal "gypsy curse" that first restored Angel's soul involved, but it's my guess that it also required the assistance of some very powerfol demon or diety th bring it about.

If the above had any validity at all, it would therefore stand to reason to say that Willow could not restore the soul or souls of any single vampire or group of vampires because, unassisted, she doesn't have that much power.

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

This is the craziest thought I ever thought about - if they were all en-souled, they still could be all kinds of evil? Free Will comes with the soul right? Also, that's a lot of Vampire Strength crazies running around!

But I think she probably could ensoul other vampires, and while she's at it why not giving Xander a new eye.

I don't think she can give him a new eye because magickal and medical shouldn't and can't be mixed, that's why Willow didn't try to heal Joyce from her medical problems because it could make things worst.

 

[nerd4hire]

It's interesting isn't it? What recuperative magic we do see appears to come from the dark side. Dark Willow heals Buffy of her seemingly fatal gun shot wounds. It requires a tranference from a demon God to restore Tara's mind. Even the slayer's recuperative powers have their roots in the heart of the demon.