Shipping Wars...Shipping Wars Never Change

[Ihamze94]

Riley's bite-scapades put Buffy AND everyone else at risk. That is worse than normal cheating. Normal cheat risks AIDS. Vampire whoring risks that he gets turned and kills everyone.

After Angelus, that would have been way more destructive to Buffy and she probably would have had to stake him (assuming he did not kill her in her sleep).

That is a suicidal way to deal with relationship issues. Suicidal, reckless and SELFISH in the extreme. I am like Cordy in this respect, i dont look back. I would not have chased that plane no matter how much emotional stirring my friends did. If Xander had not talked her into it, Buffy would not have chased him either. I wish she had not. Riley stole her dignity and humiliated her and returned to do it again. Nope. No use for him.

Xander never talked her into it. Why do fans insist on dismissing Buffy's feelings? I don't like Spike but I acknowledge that Buffy loved him. Wish other viewers could be that objective. Xander had simply wanted her to finally reach a decision. If she didn't feel the same way about Riley then the kind thing to do would be to let him go but if she did, and she was ready to commit then she should try and convince him to stay. I don't think it's bad to fight for someone you love.
I liked that Riley came back because it was thanks to him that Buffy found the strength to end her toxic relationship with Spike. She was depressed and lost confidence in herself and Riley, being the kind and supportive guy he's always been, helped cheer her up and made her see what a amazing woman she is. Spike did everything to isolate her and keep her in the darkness with him. He was wrong for her then. I wish the show didn't put Buffy with Spike when he didn't have a soul. It was messed up. Spuffy should have started when he did have a soul, not before.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

Spike and Buffy pre-soul WAS toxic, but as she was broken and he was a coping mechanism, he was a way better one than suicide (which he prevented) drinking or drugging or just giving up. She turned to him AFTER she was already spiralling because she could not talk to her friends or deal with their expectations. Spike did not cause her depression or suicidal ideation. DIGGING OUT OF HER AIRLESS COFFIN 6 FEET UNDER, AFTER BEING DRAGGED FROM HEAVEN caused that.

Spike was not the best person but he was literally the only adult available for her to talk to who did not want her gratitude for being resurrected.

GILES WAS GONE. And when he came back he callously expected a broke, jobless, (unpaid by the council) motherless slayer with severe PTSD and depression to raise a child alone AND still keep the forces of darkness at bay. It was MAD.

Then, after attempted suicide by demon lord IN FRONT OF ALL OF THEM Giles walks away and essentially tells her to grow up. The GALL of Giles. In this scenario, Buffy needed serious financial support, mental health help, and instead, she was carrying the world AND her friend's problems.

Without help and *without pay of any kind*.

Buffy was so very strong.

 

[Ihamze94]

Spike and Buffy pre-soul WAS toxic, but as she was broken and he was a coping mechanism, he was a way better one than suicide (which he prevented) drinking or drugging or just giving up. She turned to him AFTER she was already spiralling because she could not talk to her friends or deal with their expectations. Spike did not cause her depression or suicidal ideation. DIGGING OUT OF HER AIRLESS COFFIN 6 FEET UNDER, AFTER BEING DRAGGED FROM HEAVEN caused that.

Spike was not the best person but he was literally the only adult available for her to talk to who did not want her gratitude for being resurrected.

GILES WAS GONE. And when he came back he callously expected a broke, jobless, (unpaid by the council) motherless slayer with severe PTSD and depression to raise a child alone AND still keep the forces of darkness at bay. It was MAD.

Then, after attempted suicide by demon lord IN FRONT OF ALL OF THEM Giles walks away and essentially tells her to grow up. The GALL of Giles. In this scenario, Buffy needed serious financial support, mental health help, and instead, she was carrying the world AND her friend's problems.

Without help and *without pay of any kind*.

Buffy was so very strong.

I've decided to stop explaining why Spike's wrong for her. not going to continue pointing it out to Spuffy fans. We're never going to see eye to eye on who was the better love interest for Buffy. Spuffy fans say spike was right for her and Bangel fans say that you can't beat someone's first and true love. Personally, my favourite love interests for Buffy were Angel and Riley. I always enjoyed seeing those two relationships on screen. People tend to get surprised why Riley's one of my favourites but like it or not, there are reasons why Buffy and Riley's relationship was special while it lasted. I like Spike but as a enemy or, at most, frenemy.

 

[thetopher]

I think its best not to make a shipping thread about a particular ship or character pairing. All the 'main' pairings have their problems on the show but demonizing one character shouldn't then be responded by demonizing another. Kinda derails the thread into a shipping war...


Also it's probably better if people didn't specifically single out and repeatedly attack a person's pov and then peace out when they themselves then claim their ship is being attacked or whatever.

There's plenty of room for adult debate as long as its done in the spirit of mutual respect and a genuine interest in understanding another pov. I know for a fact that some shippers CAN do this, or at least have done in the past.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

The Buffy fandom on the other hand seems to have largely missed the memo. Bangel vs. Spuffy - and your absolute allegiance to one over the other - is still prominent after 25 years. I'm sure some people here are older than me or were active in the fandom longer than me so maybe things have chilled out since BBS I ca

The only other fandom I'm heavily invested in is the Twin Peaks one, and there is plenty of shipping that goes on, though I will admit it is less than with this fandom. There's so much complex mythology and theories with TP, that we end up discussing that more than the relationships.

Bangel vs Spuffy is iconic I think - they were the first human/vampire TV love triangle that other media like Twilight, True Blood, and Vampire Diaries tried to copy but it was never as good.

Things have definitely chilled out since then - even when I joined this forum in 2005, there was constant fighting and arguing about it. I spent a lot of time arguing why Spike was better for Buffy than Angel - now I don't bother, because I no longer feel the need to. I'm sure you can look back at some old threads and see some cringeworthy posts from me. Spuffy is my ride or die, I believe they're soulmates. And at this point, Spuffy is what keeps me coming back to this fandom, and the aspect of the show I still find the most interesting. I know what I think, and that's all that matters to me now. But when I was younger, I did care amore about "winning" the ship wars for sure. And "proving" my argument.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

No one can win the internet.

I have my ships, but they are not the hills I will die on. As @Joan the Vampire Slayer says, those ships are a large part of my pleasure (i read a lot of spuffy stories). I also like writing crossover adventures for our heroes - and that has little to do with one true pairing-itis. I just hope that buffyphiles will continue to join me in the fandom so it thrives. Unless your pairing is incest or molestation, I am not even going to get annoyed. I have real life for real aggravation. Buffy is for joy and imagination.

 

[Plasma]

Unless your pairing is incest or molestation, I am not even going to get annoyed. I have real life for real aggravation. Buffy is for joy and imagination.

At the end of the day, the property is a fun thing for our leisure and enjoyment. I don’t understand why these sort of things have become havens of internet flame wars and mud-slinging. Everyone in a particular space made a choice to come there and discuss something they love. It may not be what another person loves, but that doesn’t make anyone wrong or worthy of hate. It just makes them different. 🙂