Dagenspear
Scooby
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2011
- Messages
- 806
- Age
- 36
Angel and Angelus are nothing alike. Not only do they act differently, but they speak, move, and even have different tastes. Angel likes MANDY, and Angelus doesn't. They are not the same.I think Spike proved that a vampire can be good, as he being soulless, went out to get a soul for Buffy.
So I think that Angel and Spike should be held accountable for their soulless actions.
Spike was able to be good even without a soul. Maybe it was just because of his chip, but he became good nonetheless. That shows that even while being a soulless vampire, you still have a bit of humanity in you. You still have memories, opinions, feelings, just a drive of evilness. Angel should be held accountable for killing Jenny and refusing his cure. It was still him, just more evil. Just like Spike to be held accountable for attempting to rape Buffy.
But at least Spike tried to get his soul back. 😉
---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------
It's been made very clear on the show that a Vampire isn't simply a creature with no conscience. It's a demon that's taken over a human's body. It has all their memories... but it's not them.It is my opinion that they are both equally responsible for their actions pre-soul.
They lack conscience without a soul, but still are aware of societal rules about right and wrong. They simply do not care...except sometimes Spike does, indicating (regardless of why he was motivated to care) that their behavior was still a result of choice. The demon and lack of conscience are an impairment to making what I would deem to be good decisions, but not an excuse for not being responsible.
In the research done with sociopaths, who by definition lack empathy and moral conscience, we are seeing that there is an organic basis for the sociopathy. So, one could argue that the lack of "soul" is also forced on these individuals since it is an element lacking in their brain chemistry...however, it is popular opinion (at least in the American judicial system) that Sociopaths are responsible for their actions. Spike and Angel have a decreased capacity for Empathy and decreased respect for morality as a result of their soulless-ness, but it is my opinion that they are still liable for their actions.
My bottom line is: if you do bad stuff and know it's bad stuff but don't care...you are responsible for what you did. Empathy/conscience or not.
---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------
I always viewed it as Spike being unique in the way of having a small bit of humanity left in him somehow, but, for all those years, it was suffocated by the demon in him. And when he got the chip, he was forced to suffer through his humanity, which grew within him. But, without the chip, it wouldn't have happened.Since both Angel and Spike had their demons forced onto them I don't hold them personally responsible for their soulless actions. While neither of them were particularly great humans before, I doubt either would have become ruthless murders, like they did when they lost their souls. That being said, I do find it honorable that they feel responsible and are making an attempt to atone for their actions.
As far as holding vampires responsible for their actions, my biggest problem is when people want to credit Spike for the "good" things he did pre-soul and then later use the lack of a soul as an excuse for his behavior. The way I see it, he is either responsible for it all or not responsible for any of it.