• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Should Willow Go To A&F?

white avenger

white avenger
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
16,036
Age
73
Location
rome, georgia
I don't think that would interest Willow... so, it wouldn't be a reason for her to go over A&F.
It very well might, considering the fact that it would give her the chance to move up from, at best, third banana behind Buffy and Spike, or, potentially, Angel and Faith. She might feel that it would give her more of a sense of accomplishment than just remaining in the shadows until Buffy needs a spell cast, which is pretty much what she's doing now.

Plus, it would give her a valid excuse to work closely with Fred, especially if Willow could come up with some sort of controlling spell to help Fred keep keep Illyria more under control.
 

gite63

Gone
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
1,888
Location
Brazil
Sineya
It very well might, considering the fact that it would give her the chance to move up from, at best, third banana behind Buffy and Spike, or, potentially, Angel and Faith. She might feel that it would give her more of a sense of accomplishment than just remaining in the shadows until Buffy needs a spell cast, which is pretty much what she's doing now.
I agree with you that Willow needs something that could give her this "sense of accomplishment", but not mentoring people out of her field of expertise: witchcraft. She could do that in London, and be friends with Fred, helping her with Illyria - there's no reason for both of them not become good friends as Willow and Buffy are.

For young Watchers or Slayers, Faith fits the role better, it's something she has already done, and she can go back doing - she's now more mature and experienced, and since she had a tough life, she can relate more to difficult young ones, for instance.
 
Last edited:

white avenger

white avenger
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
16,036
Age
73
Location
rome, georgia
I agree with you that Willow needs something that could give her this "sense of accomplishment", but not mentoring people out of her field of expertise: witchcraft. She could do that in London, and be friends with Fred, helping her with Illyria - there's no reason for both of them become fast friends as Willow and Buffy are.

For young Watchers or Slayers, Faith fits the role better, it's something she has already done, and she can go back doing - she's now more mature and experienced, and since she had a tough life, she can relate more to difficult young ones, for instance.
But she wouldn't just be setting up and mentoring the Slayers, she would be establishing an order of women, almost certainly magic wielders, who whose job would be to see to the welfare of all of those young Slayers. That, I think, would be something that Willow would love doing.
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
7,159
Location
Canada
Sineya
There's the possibility of Willow and Fred starting up a new Order Of Guardians to watch over, organize, coordinate, and train all of the young watchers. That way, they could move back and forth between both titles, consulting with Buffy and Faith, and even, possibly, begin a series of their own. We know that Kennedy has her security group, and, as far as we know, Satsu still has her team in Japan. There are loose Slayers in London, more in Cleveland, and quite likely tons of other girls, alone or in small groups, scattered all over the world. All of those girls need organization, focus, and intercommunication. That would keep Willow, Fred, and a sizable crew of Guardians busy indefinitely, and give perfectly good reason to have frequent consultations with both Buffy and Faith, as the two senior demon fighters still in operation. They could be available as back up in both titles, able to provide magic, science, and raw Slayer power wherever they were needed on short notice.
I wonder how you could do this without it being like the amulet or scythe in Season 7. They were Macguffins, props that provide a deus ex machina happy ending with no effort or intelligence on the part of the user. In fact, the scythe was a Guardian product and it was not really respected as a proper plot device as a result of this. The amulet was even more of a deus ex machina that that - Spike didn't even have to wield it, it just sat there until it activated spontaneously. If you could put a story together where the Guardians were part of an entertainingly complex plot where the outcome was in doubt and there were no easy answers and the plot was full of misdirection to the enemy and other things that would make it all complicated then you could put together a major story but it would have to be as complicated and dangerous as the Normandy landings in WWII.
 

gite63

Gone
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
1,888
Location
Brazil
Sineya
If you could put a story together where the Guardians were part of an entertainingly complex plot
The Guardians could be explained and explored more, but as they are attached to the Slayers' powers, I still don't think Will would have a particular interest on them... unless for the magic side of things; they did create the Scythe, after all - using powerful magic, one could think. However, after that, they stayed put for centuries waiting for Buffy, apparently doing nothing...
 

white avenger

white avenger
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
16,036
Age
73
Location
rome, georgia
Actually Illyria is a God-King...
But is the term used to signify gender, or as a sign of supremacy, in the same way that Christians and Jews refer to Jehovah as "he," simply because their cultures are traditionally male dominant? More likely, in its true form, Illyria would actually be an "it," neither male nor female.

In fact, the scythe was a Guardian product and it was not really respected as a proper plot device as a result of this.
The Guardians could be explained and explored more, but as they are attached to the Slayers' powers, I still don't think Will would have a particular interest on them... unless for the magic side of things; they did create the Scythe, after all - using powerful magic, one could think. However, after that, they stayed put for centuries waiting for Buffy, apparently doing nothing...
We actually know nothing about the Guardians beyond the few lines spoken in "End Of Days," and that Guardian could have been lying in order to protect the others of her order, just in case some agent of the First Evil should overhear her or she might fall into their hands. If they thought that she were actually the last of her kind, there wouldn't be any reason to search for the others.

Were they actually doing nothing for all of those centuries, or just working behind the scenes, doing what they could to help the various Slayers without being seen?

What if Willow is actually the Guardian's equivalent of the Watchers' Slayers? Amy once made a comment about Willow being able to accomplish twice as much, with only half the effort, of the other members of their coven. Maybe Willow is the "one girl in all the world" born to be the next Guardian. Guardians are apparently immortal, so that would even explain why she is still alive in Fray's time.
 
thetopher
thetopher
Good points.

Scooby Corps

Fly! Be free, little bird, you defy category!
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
595
Location
Germany
I have read S10 up to issue #26 yesterday and today in one go. I can't say if she fits better into A&F since I'm due to read them yet, but if there's a continuation she definitively needs to be apart from BtVS and gain her own Spin-Off. I almost don't care where she ends up but her reduction to a merely minor support character in S10 is unacceptable.

What was her story so far? A little bit best friend talk with Buffy, a break-up with Snake-Lady, another I-miss-Tara arc (which is basically an Andrew arc) but mostly she just fought in the shadow of Buffy and Spike and got injured a lot.

Willow: "Gah!"
Buffy: "Wil! - I don't know how often this dialog line had occurred already. A lot!

It got interesting as she started to work with the military and her new love interest seems so far decent to me (besides that Lake reminds me a bit of a younger Professor Walsh, Gnah). I liked that Willow tried to make her own way and that she stood to her opinion. There is nothing selfish about it and we're talking about just ONE week of secretiveness after which Willow told Buffy on her own accord. I was glad for Willow.
When she saved this town from these flying brain things and afterwards got praised by the G.I.s for saving lives, I got the impression that this ongoing government and military bashing finally comes to an end as well.

However, the summary of Issue #27 implies that won't be the case and the writers have probably twisted it again that Willow was wrong in the first place followed by a humble return to Buffy, since she's the main character and can't be wrong, right? On top, it turns out that Lake used her for her sinister government goals leading to Buffy comforting poor heartbroken Willow. :rolleyes:*Yawn*

I have the impression the writers either don't know what to do with her or simply don't like her. I mean the summary from Issue #22 speaks for itself. Oh, you mean traitorous Willow. Lol.

So yes, Willow should at least switch to A&F, but best would be her own Spin-Off. Willow outgrew Buffy.

Rant over.
 
Last edited:

vellavu

Scooby
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
3,114
Black Thorn
I can't say if she fits better into A&F since I'm due to read them yet, but if there's a continuation she definitively needs to be apart from BtVS and gain her own Spin-Off.
A&F S9 (not S10) was written by the same author as Buffy S10's. Willow's crossover in that season was great. So I guess Gage doesn't hate Willow. He just couldn't find any Willow stories to write.
 

Scooby Corps

Fly! Be free, little bird, you defy category!
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
595
Location
Germany
He just couldn't find any Willow stories to write.
Which is hard to grasp after this whole mother of magic thing in S09. :D

Less Spuffy and no Andrew at all in favor of more Willow would have been appropriate. S10 isn't bad altogether. I really enjoyed Xander, Dracula, Giles and Spike (without Buffy) so far. They could have scratched Harmony, and Buffy is strangely the weakest character despite the amount of "screen-time" she has (regarding characterization and development).

A Willow fan must be disappointed.

I'll start reading A&F immediately after I've checked my budget. :D
 

vellavu

Scooby
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
3,114
Black Thorn
Which is hard to grasp after this whole mother of magic thing in S09. :D

Less Spuffy and no Andrew at all in favor of more Willow would have been appropriate. S10 isn't bad altogether. I really enjoyed Xander, Dracula, Giles and Spike (without Buffy) so far. They could have scratched Harmony, and Buffy is strangely the weakest character despite the amount of "screen-time" she has (regarding characterization and development).

A Willow fan must be disappointed.

I'll start reading A&F immediately after I've checked my budget. :D
I agree that Xander and Dracula are great and Buffy herself generally sucks. But Giles... not so good. Spike's fine I guess.

A&F S9 is great. The Willow-involved arc is actually the lamest in that season, but it's still great. However I can't say the same to S10. It has too many plot bunnies (in a bad way), non-resolutions, non-developments, as well as non-foreshadowings. Plus, it doesn't even have a proper ending. Maybe S11 can fix part of S10's problems but I'm not so optimistic.

I think Andrew is needed in S10. Otherwise there won't be the butt of jokes (Xander's already grown up), and souled Spike couldn't find anyone to bully. Such things are an essential part of BtVS I think.
 

Scooby Corps

Fly! Be free, little bird, you defy category!
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
595
Location
Germany
Plus, it doesn't even have a proper ending.
Is A&F S10 already finished?

But Giles... not so good.
I liked the puns regarding his condition but you're right; his totally misplaced and inappropriate "midlife crisis" thing he has going annoys me back to S04.

Spike's fine I guess.
Especially the Xander & Spike bonding with the pillow fight was hilarious. :D Spander fans surely got their kick out of it.
 
Last edited:

GoSpuffy

Vampire Lover, I mean Slayer
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
2,490
Location
Vancouver, BC
Black Thorn
I like Willow with Buffy but I would like to see an expanded role. I agree she can teleport and visit Angel to give her more interesting stories.
 

Scooby Corps

Fly! Be free, little bird, you defy category!
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
595
Location
Germany
I'm almost at the point that I wish for a Willow & Spike spin-off (similar to Angel & Faith with 20+ issues) so both can evolve apart from Buffy which, in return, could be good for her own development as well.

Both, a Willow and a Spike spin-off were discussed here in the forum. Why not merge them to one since they'll probably won't do both?

Pro:

- They won't screw it up with a Spillow romance.
- Spike can stop being henpecked. And Buffy can be Buffy again. IMO, is the focus on the Spuffy romance damaging to both characters and the fandom.
- Enough page-space to highlight both characters.
- Willow and Spike have at least common ground, as in they get along fairly well and there chemistry can be entertaining.
- IMO, the Buffy/Willow friendship isn't crucial to their definition anymore. That had stopped after "The Gift" anyway. They can do their hugs&cuddles, chit-chats and friendship dramas when they crossover.
- Buffy has still enough people around her. I like her chemistry with Xander. Giles is around for the magic and they can keep Andrew for all I care. Dawn fell a bit short too so far.
- @Buffy Summers can relish BtVS without Willow. :p
- Who knows? Maybe I'd like Buffy again?
- More opportunities for new characters without overwhelming the readers.

Con:

- I can't really think about anything why Spike and Willow would join forces and do their own thing. That's because I said "almost". I'm not desperate enough, yet. :D
 
Top Bottom