I wasn't necessarily saying Whedon's way is completely driven by emotions or that it lacks logic and that Fury's explanation about the soul residue fixed the soul canon. That theory still makes no sense to me. I'm just saying that Fury himself needed to make sense of it and that those things were obviously bothering him. I consider it an headcanon and nothing more.I'm not sure logic/emotions come into it. The politico-aesthetic of the time was postmodernism. Whedon knows the ground rules and from the beginning, BtVS is a typically postmodern text. I don't think it's any coincidence the season starts with Dracula. Dracula blurs the boundaries between fictional and real worlds and marks a shift from a playful postmodernism to a more critically aware postmodernism. Postmodernism can be apolitical - the shift politicizes the series. You see a direct reference to one of the battlegrounds of the theoretical divide in Life Serial - the discussion of social constructionism. You don't need Fury's "soul residue theory" to make sense of the soul - the introduction of back stories gives enough grounds to understand the different responses of Angel/Spike. "Listen to Fear" introduces ideas about history and time that seem heavily reliant on Walter Benjamin and are, I think, fundamental to the Giles mini. "Real Me" asks questions not just of Dawn but about all the characters.
Espenson worked with George Lakoff at Berkley. Lakoff's a cognitive psychologist and the author of "Metaphors we live by". This particular text gives a scientific basis to the ideas of continental philosophy - metaphor is not just a trope but central to the contemporary understanding of how we think and how we express our thoughts in language. This idea is central to 6/7. Lakoff credits Espenson in his book on the embodied mind - an idea central to S7 (there's a reason Touched is called Touched). S6 is also drawing on Kristeva's theories of abjection (if it isn't, it can be framed by it). S7 draws on Irigaray, or the existentialism associated with Merleau-Ponty (his ideas feed into Lakoff's work).
There's nothing "emotional" about the Noxon years in the sense they're driven by emotions - they investigate "emotion" as an alternative way of viewing and understanding the world. And why not - since emotion is one of the female "characteristics" used to debase the female experience. . There's an argument that's been made by better people that me, that "reason" is fundamental to the worst atrocities of the 20th century. Okay - the Verse has a mythology but I'd want the reframe "myth" with reference to both Barthes and Adorno because the text implicitly does so.
Did I use the term "lighthearted"?Grrr Argh! Is someone trying to sell me on Buffy as a postmodern story or that there is such a thing as "lighthearted postmodernism"?
I think this quote goes to the heart of all that 'subtle' Spuffy writing, right?they beat it out of me. - David Fury
lol JM understands Spike's character better than half the writers.I was like, "Buffy, definitely. Buffy's mother, yes. But the rest of them, no, not at all"
Yes. I feel like he has a very good grasp on the character. It feels like with all the changes his character went through, he needed to make sense of it all for the character to be able to play any of it. You can tell he spent a lot of time thinking about who Spike is.lol JM understands Spike's character better than half the writers.
The depression was realistic and even the bad sex it's a lot of people's favourite season because it speaks to their depression.Neat. Thank you for that. I should just whip this quote out anytime S6 defenders insist on the 'realism' of it as their reason of why it's their fave one. But it's always nice to hear from the horse's mouth when lack of talent is admitted. 'We can't write realism so lets just go to sex.'. Thanks for that Marti, and for confirming my believe that you sucked as a showrunner.
Thump that tub. Spuffy writing is subtle it about someone realising that the will hurt the person they care about if they don't share their values they will destroy them and ultimately themselves.It's interesting that the writers seemed to have changed their minds between Season 6 and 7 (which many fans claim are almost like two halves of one big season) because here they say 'yeah, we wanted to show that Spike is basically evil' and yet in S7 they're on the record as trying to show that Spike was 'unique' among vampires because of some intrinsic humanity.
They don't seem to realize that you can't actually have BOTH those things. He's either like a vampire or somehow not.
It's why he's such a bad grey area character; Angel, Faith, Willow, Wesley- theses grey area characters work because the writers always seemed to know what they were trying to say, where they were going.
Anyways, fascinating stuff.
I think this quote goes to the heart of all that 'subtle' Spuffy writing, right?
lol JM understands Spike's character better than half the writers.
Real nice tone, typical Spikette.Thump that tub.
No it ain't; its actually just kinda contrived storytelling imo. Confused shouldn't be mistaken for subtle.Spuffy writing is subtle
Either vampires are irredeemable or their not; Buffy should kill them because of this or not. Watchers didn't make up the fact that vampires kill and slaughter and spread like a plague. We are shown time and again that vampires are soulless, evil things that are- like many monsters on the show- a metaphor for something.I think mythology done well is like science - you're told it's one way and then you find out that the original model was oversimplified. Also soul theory was taught by watchers who are outside of vamp systems and need to tell their slayers and watchers to kill someone they know who's been turned.
But he does good things for Joyce and Dawn as well. And helps the gang out when there isn't much in it for him. The writers had said that they wanted to illustrate that 'Spike was different'- that was their intent in S7. See how he's portrayed in flashback in 'LMPTM' and how tender he is with him Mum compared with his attitude in S5 'FFL' (parts of which are set right after) and we see that Spike killing his Mummy really messed him up because he was, y'know, so special.He does? I didn't know that. I thought his 'good' actions were just because he was in love with Buffy.