Hey, if you dress like a tramp, I reserve the right to think you dress like a tramp. Doesn't mean you are one.
Bluebird
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BuffyElevated
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Yeah but it stems from our patriarchal society. Of course women buy into it. That's what makes it all the worse. It's so embedded in our society.
I think she made some interesting points, but I also understand the assertions of those who say she was slut-shaming. I just read this interesting article: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/philfo...with-sinead-oconners-comments-on-miley-cyrus/Completely agree, most of the shaming I've seen comes from women. Buzzfeed had an interesting article the last couple of days about the letters Sinéad O'Connor was sending to Miley Cyrus, and how they were basically slut-shaming - would you guys agree with that?
And that's the thing: feminism is not about man-hating. Sure there are some man-hating feminists out there. But most feminists I know actually feel that misogyny/patriarchy does a grave disservice to men as well. It's demeaning to perpetuate this myth that men can't control themselves simply because of a woman's clothing!And thats another thing, the quote is as offensive to guys, it says that if you like looking at a girl dressed like that, your not a real man. If your a young guy you are going to find scantly clad women nice to look at on impulse, the quote shames boys too (though it is aimed at girls, I'm not denying that).
It's hard for me to wrap my head around why it's bothering me so much lately. It's always made me upset, but my feelings have intensified. If my neighbor had posted that image a few months ago, I would have not gotten this angry about it.
I guess there isn't much you can do in a situation like that, but it is definitely alright to get pissed by the fact that you wearing something would make a guy think you want his attention. Like you said: men tend to think that women/girls/whatever are there for them, and pretty for them and sexy for them.some guy in a truck pulled up next to me and rolled down his window and said "hey baby.". And I laughed. I mean, what am I gonna do? Get pissed? I was, after all, wearing a 'hey baby' outfit. But I think the subtext of this thread runs deeper than that...
I guess there isn't much you can do in a situation like that, but it is definitely alright to get pissed by the fact that you wearing something would make a guy think you want his attention. Like you said: men tend to think that women/girls/whatever are there for them, and pretty for them and sexy for them.
You can get angry or offended by that scenario if you want, but that's choosing to do so. I'm not making an excuse or anything for men that act like pigs, there are plenty of them out there and it is a problem, but if you (the proverbial you) wear an outfit designed to attract sexual attention then it is a bit rich to be offended when you in turn...you know...attract sexual attention. There's no reason for a guy to be crude or insulting like the person described, that's clearly out of line, but dressing up in a party outfit and going to a party with strangers is going to get the attention of strangers. That's not sexism, it's reality. If I walk to the downtown eastside of my hometown, the city's drug area, and get offered to by heroin, I'm going to expect that possibility far more than if I went somewhere else.
And your last sentence there is incredibly sexist. You just innately contradict your previous point. You don't want guys to generalize women's motivations for going out and yet in doing so make an offensive generalization of your own. You don't see the hypocrisy there? I mean, by your own definition of when it is and isn't appropriate for a guy to tell a girl she's being sensitive, who then are you to tell me what "most" of my gender does or does not think about women? It's okay for you make sweeping indictments of men? Why is that? What makes you different than what you're rallying against?
Hey, if you dress like a tramp, I reserve the right to think you dress like a tramp. Doesn't mean you are one.
Are you referring to this sentence? "men tend to think that women/girls/whatever are there for them, and pretty for them and sexy for them." ...I mean, are you really denying that there is some truth to that? She said "men tend to think" not "all men think". I'm not trying to be rude, but from my own personal experience most of the guys that *I* have encountered, tend to think it's fine when a girl is dressed like a "slut" (I hate that word and I truly don't know what it means anymore) it's ok if she's flirty and accepts his advances, but when a girl dresses that way and isn't interested, suddenly she's a "whore" and a "slut" or whatever. It's like people think that ALL women dress that way because they want male attention when A) not all women are attracted to men and B) sometimes you just want to look/feel sexy without being groped by a creep or catcalled at.
If I wear something sexy, am I shocked when some guy yells at me on the street? No. Am I annoyed? Yes. It's rude and sometimes embarrassing and it's like, yeah I'm totally thinking "hey you yelled at me and told me that my ass looks hot, lets have sex right now on this street corner!!!" like what does he even hope to gain? I remember reading some article about someone who interviewed guys and asked them why they catcalled at women and a lot of them said they did it *solely* to embarrass the woman or that it was like a male bonding activity. They were like "oh we get bored and it's just fun to see the look on her face" and I don't know about you but I find that to be pretty...sick. Sorry I am going on a tangent, did I say that already? I get so worked up about this stuff.
And look, I get that it sucks and maybe hurts your feeling when a woman (or a man) says "men do *blank*" but they do NOT mean all men, and you shouldn't focus on the semantics and say "hey don't you mean *some* men!!!" because that's not really addressing the issue at hand...but again, the way [MENTION=5362]eponinethen[/MENTION] phrased it didn't sound like that anyway.
tl;dr I hate people who slut shame and it drives me nuts.
edit: I found the article I referenced above
And your last sentence there is incredibly sexist. You just innately contradict your previous point. You don't want guys to generalize women's motivations for going out and yet in doing so make an offensive generalization of your own. You don't see the hypocrisy there? I mean, by your own definition of when it is and isn't appropriate for a guy to tell a girl she's being sensitive, who then are you to tell me what "most" of my gender does or does not think about women? It's okay for you make sweeping indictments of men? Why is that? What makes you different than what you're rallying against?
There are women who dress very provocatively with the sole purpose of attracting attention from men. There's not a thing in the world wrong with that, I don't give a damn how people spend their time, but it would be very unfair of me to label all women that way. There's no getting around it. If you something like "most men objectify women", that IS sexist.