Spike, Buffy and "Seeing Red"

Since when did this become a Spuffy vs Bangel topic anyway? Just wondering, cause if I had known I would've posted my feelings on both relationships as well. 😉
Angel's leaving her was a big and important step for Angel to make. I stand by him on that decision, and always will. I dislike Spuffy for that same reason, because to me it doesn't resemble a real-life relationship at all. My boyfriend and I just sit there and laugh while "attempting" to watch Spuffy and give it a chance. Neither of us think it is a real-life relationship... maybe thats partly because our views on how a real love is portrayed are differently.

ANyway...most important thing to remember: Not ALL Bangel fans point the finger at Spike for his soulless actions in Seeing Red. I merely point the finger at soulless Spike, just like I do with Angelus. They've BOTH done horrible things in the past... and in my opinion (because people tend to credit Spike only for his good deeds when he was soulless), you can't credit Spike for his good deeds (i.e: helping the scoobies and such when he was soulless) when he was soulless because then you'd be ignoring the bad deeds (trying to destroy humanity, trying to kill Buffy, killing Ford, AR, etc) and just taking in the good deeds to fit your liking. You gotta then take the bad along with the good when he was soulless unless you're on with the 'I think soulless Spike/Angel are the same people' bandwagon, personally I am not. You can however, credit him for his good deeds when he was soulful.

See, I can't say (well, just pretend Angelus helped out the scoobies and such) I can't give him credit for that because he also tried to kill them and Buffy. I can give soulful Angel credit for all the times (WAY before Spike) that he helped out.

Neither vamp is better then the other. I just prefer Angel over Spike because I don't like Spike. I use to, awhole lot in fact he was one of my favorite characters but I don't like him as the Slayer's lapdog.

Angelus and Angel are totally different in every aspect. And they hate each other. Spike and Souled Spike are different too.
 
Ok, I realize that the line of discussion is kinda blurred with this topic so I don't mind letting certain things slide. Try not to just go Spuffy VS Bangel though. And again, no character bashing! If there is any more I will have to close the thread. 🙁
 
ANyway...most important thing to remember: Not ALL Bangel fans point the finger at Spike for his soulless actions in Seeing Red.

But A LOT of them do. And they have a talent of ignoring Angel's actions, when in a souless state. Or use the argument that Angel and Angelus are two different people. They will blame souled Spike for souless Spike's actions, but they will not do the same for Angel.

I have no problem for holding souled Spike responsible for souless Spike's actions. But I find it annoying that many fans refuse to do the same for Angel. And there are a lot of them that do this.
 
Originally posted by LadyLavinia
ANyway...most important thing to remember: Not ALL Bangel fans point the finger at Spike for his soulless actions in Seeing Red.

But A LOT of them do. And they have a talent of ignoring Angel's actions, when in a souless state. Or use the argument that Angel and Angelus are two different people. They will blame souled Spike for souless Spike's actions, but they will not do the same for Angel.

I have no problem for holding souled Spike responsible for souless Spike's actions. But I find it annoying that many fans refuse to do the same for Angel. And there are a lot of them that do this.
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EXCELLENT POINT!

(sorry guys for making my argument sorta bangel vs. spuffy. I just couldn't help it, because mostly in the end that's what it boils down to. And I did not mean to bash Angel... but I am personally sick and tired of Spike being constantly beaten to a bloody pulp in most conversations)
 
well thats just something that you cant help, people are going to do that regardless, its just what they think and its just like when alot of people want to bash Buffy about how she treated Spike during S6, most think that he didnt deserve to be treated that way and that Buffy was just being a bitch for useing him while I think differently.
 
Originally posted by LadyLavinia
But A LOT of them do. And they have a talent of ignoring Angel's actions, when in a souless state. Or use the argument that Angel and Angelus are two different people. They will blame souled Spike for souless Spike's actions, but they will not do the same for Angel.
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That's their problem then. I just don't like when ALL of us Bangel's are blamed.

Yes, Primal Slayer does have a very good point. Also, alot (notice how I don't say all? 🙂 ) Spuffies call Buffy a bitch when Spike was just as much to blame as she was for the abuse that went on in Season 6.
 
Very touchy subject, but a very good question. I can understand why bangel's bring up the spuffy rape. It was very hard to watch as a spuffy fan, and it was terrifying that Spike would do that to Buffy. But we have to consider that was when he was souless and he would NEVER do that now that he has a soul. I think that Bangel's forget about what happened in season 2 sometimes b/c it was a while ago and the whole "Angelus" thing which was is kinda an excuse for Angel's actions towards Buffy and her friends. But I can also see us Spuffies using the Souless thing as an excuse too. I think that both Angel and Spike were at fault. I hope this thread will resolve some of the Spuffy/Bangel wars. Very good idea to start this ladylavinia!
 
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