Ok so I have kind of a strange idea and it is a lot of changes to the story that have to be made but it is purely hypothetical. The situation is Spike has a soul from the beginning and It is both Spike and Angel without a curse but with a soul that come to warn Buffy and help her fight evil. With those changes in mind who do you think Buffy would have fell for initially? I'm going to ask that we try to go into this with an open mind which is tough for me as well but I think it will be fun. The Spuffy fan in me wants to say of course she would fall for Spike but if I'm honest I really don't know it is a tough question because they both have qualities that Buffy finds attractive. At the beginning I think Buffy would like Spike because of the whole bad boy image he has going but at the same time Angel had the dark, mysterious brooding thing going for him. It really is a tough call and I can't decide who I think she would have initially went for so I think maybe she would have gone back and forth and wound up with neither of them.
Spike from the Beginning
- Thread starter slayer6
- Start date
To me, if Buffy can see Spike in s7 as the changed man that he is and forgive him for everything he did prior to the soul (which I think is very fair of her), I do believe this means that she has strong emotions for the guy. She obviously likes the man he became, and without a doupt he he showed up in s1 with a soul, Spike would have probably became a big part of the Scoobies, especially that he seem to get along with them better than Angel ever could. That being said, I don't think a s1 Buffy would have been ready for Spike, even soulled Spiked and their relationship worked better as adults.
So,, I think she still would have chosen Angel. Bangel has a very "highschool love" feel to them. I'm not saying it's not real love, I think it is, but Angel was the guy Buffy needed to feel safe, to help her become who she became. Angel was the guy a highschool teenager needed as a first love (before he became Angelus that is). To me, Spike just doesn't work very well as a first love.
So,, I think she still would have chosen Angel. Bangel has a very "highschool love" feel to them. I'm not saying it's not real love, I think it is, but Angel was the guy Buffy needed to feel safe, to help her become who she became. Angel was the guy a highschool teenager needed as a first love (before he became Angelus that is). To me, Spike just doesn't work very well as a first love.
That's a good point. I think maybe you are right she probably would have chosen Angel to start but I'm not sure if it would have worked in the long run. I think maybe she would have ended up after a while of being single then moved along to Spike as an adult.
iShower4free
Scooby
I suppose it all depends on whether they have had a soul the entire time they were vampires because if that's the case I think they would be completely different people. Who is to say Spike wouldn't just be plain old William the romantic poet and Angel wouldn't be good for nothing pass out in the mud Liam.
I see your point. Ok well lets say they are exactly the way they were Angel is Angel and Spike is Spike
iShower4free
Scooby
Hmmm, honestly I think Buffy would have been drawn to Angel initially and I believe a love triangle would have ensued but I think she would have stayed with Angel. Perhaps Buffy would have gone the whole bad boy route with Spike but she just doesn't strike me as that type, at least when she is younger. Who knows though, despite what you may think I do like Spike, specially in Angel season 5.
iShower4free
Scooby
Robb Stark
King in the North
Interesting thread. I've never thought of it like this before.
I think Angel, but with a caveat. Buffy was drawn to Angel right from the get-go. They banter all throughout S1, but she's into him hard. It takes Buffy a long time to come around to Spike. The first instance I can think of where they don't hate one another is in "Becoming". From then on they seem to have a grudging respect for one another, generally at least. She obviously cares deeply for Spike in S7, but I think a large part of that stems from Buffy understanding the magnitude of Spike physically going out to get his soul. However, that said, they stick up for one another constantly, they clearly trust each other, so there's an attraction there.
The caveat I have is that if Spike had joined the Scoobies from the early years with a soul, I think that Buffy still would have been drawn to Angel. BUT, I also think that as soon as Faith arrived her and Spike would have been very, very into one another. If Angel hadn't been around in S1 and Spike had, then yeah, I could see Buffy getting involved with him.
I think Angel, but with a caveat. Buffy was drawn to Angel right from the get-go. They banter all throughout S1, but she's into him hard. It takes Buffy a long time to come around to Spike. The first instance I can think of where they don't hate one another is in "Becoming". From then on they seem to have a grudging respect for one another, generally at least. She obviously cares deeply for Spike in S7, but I think a large part of that stems from Buffy understanding the magnitude of Spike physically going out to get his soul. However, that said, they stick up for one another constantly, they clearly trust each other, so there's an attraction there.
The caveat I have is that if Spike had joined the Scoobies from the early years with a soul, I think that Buffy still would have been drawn to Angel. BUT, I also think that as soon as Faith arrived her and Spike would have been very, very into one another. If Angel hadn't been around in S1 and Spike had, then yeah, I could see Buffy getting involved with him.
iShower4free
Scooby
Spike and Faith would definitely have hit it off. The two vamp/slayer couples would be doing damage. I can picture all the competing and stuff that would be going down. I actually think that would have made for good show. Of course to change things up perhaps Buffy and Spike would have an affair which Angel would eventually forgive Buffy for a few weeks after she comes back on hands and knees. Faith never forgive Spike, although they still hook up from time to time 😛
brinkster130
Riley's BFF
Interesting question...I think having both Angel and Spike (souled) around from the beginning would have kept Buffy from getting romantically involved with either of them. Assuming the two of them would be their typical immature competitive selves and both were attracted to Buffy, I can see her growing tired of their competitions and writing them both off romantically speaking.
If we are speaking strictly physical attraction, then I think Buffy would have been drawn to Angel more so than Spike.
If we are speaking strictly physical attraction, then I think Buffy would have been drawn to Angel more so than Spike.
Don't you think that since Spike never would have been her enemy to start then the whole dynamic of it taking her forever to come around to him would be moot since that would have been what was holding her back?
---------- Post added at 01:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 AM ----------
See I think if the scenario you just suggested played out happened then Faith would be more forgiving of Spike than Angel would be of Buffy because Faith views sex as just for fun and would probably be able to dismiss it. I do however agree that maybe Spike and Faith would hit it off if Faith was introduced before Spike and Buffy got together.
---------- Post added at 01:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 AM ----------
The physical attraction is a tough one because Buffy quotes "I'm the one who dates dead guys and no offense to you but they were hotties." My point is she seems to be physically attracted to both of them equally.
GoSpuffy
Vampire Lover, I mean Slayer
I think she would have fallen for Angel first, but ended up with Spike. I don't think it's common for anyone to end up with their teenage crush. You learn about who you are and what you want from first relationships and this knowledge leads you to making more mature decisions on what you are looking for. How can a high school student know what she is going to want as an adult? Buffy's an adventurous girl, remember Satsu? But in my mind what Buffy wants is what most women want, a man who will back her up and support her decisions and never waver in his love......that's Spike.
cryptwarmer
I agree!
bespangeled
Scooby
I'm the opposite. I think she could fall first for Spike because he's funny and warm But look at them -Spike is an extrovert, and so is Buffy. Neither of them like self reflection - both prefer to hit and chop things. Spike demands attention - Buffy can be the queen of self absorption. I can see them as being a great dating couple, but I'm not sure that they could make a marriage. Friend zoned.
Angel balances them both. He is an introvert, self reflective to the point of brooding, prefers to work things out with words. That can be the recipe for a long term relationship. Oh, and he balances Cordelia as well. Angel, much as he hates it, is a rock that others cling to. I think he would be more of a romantic partner - an 'in love' for a young woman.
I also think she should ditch high maintenance vamps now that she is free of Sunnydale.😀
white avenger
white avenger
Buffy would probably still have gone for Angel, simply because he would be what an inexperienced 16 year old girl would be attracted to: tall, dark, mysterious, with the hint of a tortured, dark past. He was a school girl's fantasy come true.
I would say Angel because the circumstances under which she fell for Spike wouldn't exist. Angel challenges her, while Spike just agrees with her and goes along with what she says.
It's a hard question because Angel being Buffy's first love is a given. But i think inserting souled Spike in s-1 could muck up her idealized picture of Angel and the whole scoobie group dynamics.
Here is a few points in favour of Spike:
Angel indeed has that air of mystery teenage girls may like, but he probably couldn't maintain it around Spike who knows him well. With Spike hanging around Angel and the scoobies, trolling and mocking him constantly, as he did in ats-5 could Angel really play the strong and silent type?
And Spike is insightful. Buffy never could lie to him, and even when he was unsouled she talked to him, shared her problems as she couldn't to with friends as they wouldn't understand what it's like, being a slayer or with Angel who wasnt very communicative and was a bit self-centered. What if she trusted Spike, like she trusted Angel?
Also Angel was very passive in s-1. I cannot imagine Spike being stotic like Angel in Prophecy Girl, being cool about Buffy being killed and justify his inertness with going against fate is a futile endeavour. Spike is a fighter and that'd probably impress Buffy.
They also worked extremely well together, even as enemies who forced together by circumstances (becoming 2).
Young Buffy without a baggage and their history sure would like souled Spike as a comadre and perhaps more.
And as Buffyboot said, Angel is dull as a table lamp. Being presented with an alternative who is also her equal physically and intellectually but more fun it'd be a hard choice for a girl. Spike might have brought out Buffy's playful side.
Its hard for me to separate Angel's character in BTVS from the improved version of Angel in ATS whom i like, but i think both vamps were fascinating and stood a chance with Buffy.
Also both vamps are very competitive. It'd be interesting to watch a show like that, that's for sure.
Here is a few points in favour of Spike:
Angel indeed has that air of mystery teenage girls may like, but he probably couldn't maintain it around Spike who knows him well. With Spike hanging around Angel and the scoobies, trolling and mocking him constantly, as he did in ats-5 could Angel really play the strong and silent type?
And Spike is insightful. Buffy never could lie to him, and even when he was unsouled she talked to him, shared her problems as she couldn't to with friends as they wouldn't understand what it's like, being a slayer or with Angel who wasnt very communicative and was a bit self-centered. What if she trusted Spike, like she trusted Angel?
Also Angel was very passive in s-1. I cannot imagine Spike being stotic like Angel in Prophecy Girl, being cool about Buffy being killed and justify his inertness with going against fate is a futile endeavour. Spike is a fighter and that'd probably impress Buffy.
They also worked extremely well together, even as enemies who forced together by circumstances (becoming 2).
Young Buffy without a baggage and their history sure would like souled Spike as a comadre and perhaps more.
And as Buffyboot said, Angel is dull as a table lamp. Being presented with an alternative who is also her equal physically and intellectually but more fun it'd be a hard choice for a girl. Spike might have brought out Buffy's playful side.
Its hard for me to separate Angel's character in BTVS from the improved version of Angel in ATS whom i like, but i think both vamps were fascinating and stood a chance with Buffy.
Also both vamps are very competitive. It'd be interesting to watch a show like that, that's for sure.
gite63
Good points.
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
I always think of Buffy in 'Reptile Boy' with those two frat-boys, the first one is cocky and self-assured and Buffy rolls her eyes and dismisses him. The second is quieter and more sincere and that's what gets Buffy's interest. He's Buffy's type.
Same with Angel and Spiie, depending on what Spike-with-a-soul is like. If he's basically the Spike we all know I don't see Buffy being interested auntil she sees beyond the swagger to something deeper. Then, maybe.
With Angel that happened in their second meeting outside the crypt, Angel's 'cocky' act kinda fell by the wayside when Buffy asked if he had friends- the rest went the way it did because Angel stopped putting on a front.
If Spike with a soul could do that...
I think this is worth reitterating because its so very true. Buffy respects those who challenge her more, her friends, Angel, even Riley a few times, than those who are basically her cheerleaders.
Same with Angel and Spiie, depending on what Spike-with-a-soul is like. If he's basically the Spike we all know I don't see Buffy being interested auntil she sees beyond the swagger to something deeper. Then, maybe.
With Angel that happened in their second meeting outside the crypt, Angel's 'cocky' act kinda fell by the wayside when Buffy asked if he had friends- the rest went the way it did because Angel stopped putting on a front.
If Spike with a soul could do that...
I think this is worth reitterating because its so very true. Buffy respects those who challenge her more, her friends, Angel, even Riley a few times, than those who are basically her cheerleaders.
"Angel challenges her, while Spike just agrees with her and goes along with what she says."
Didn’t see much challenging going on, despite the age difference in s1-3. In the end it was Angel who had changed. Same with Riley.
And from personal experience, girls do notice the decorative tall broody types but if you have a entretaining guy who can TALK, standing near the silent type they may switch their attention. But maybe it's just me. 😛 Also souled Spike can be super sensitive and self-loathing to satisfy all demand for angst. 🙂
Didn’t see much challenging going on, despite the age difference in s1-3. In the end it was Angel who had changed. Same with Riley.
And from personal experience, girls do notice the decorative tall broody types but if you have a entretaining guy who can TALK, standing near the silent type they may switch their attention. But maybe it's just me. 😛 Also souled Spike can be super sensitive and self-loathing to satisfy all demand for angst. 🙂
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Taake
Just you :P
Buffy Summers
Just you :p
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
'When She Was Bad'
'Some Assembly Required'
'Reptile Boy'
'Lie To Me'
'What's My Line'
'Ted'
I can point to bits in those episodes where Angel and Buffy argue or disagree (i.e challenge) and then Buffy at least gets to see his pov.
Less so in S3 but Angel was always moving on to other sthings by that time anyway.
Again, it depends on what version we're talking about since Spike was more comfortable showing his macho tough side to strangers than anything else (see Angel s5) . We just don't know how souled Spike would mainfest 'in-show' without the journeyt that took him there- all that affected his character greatly.
'Some Assembly Required'
'Reptile Boy'
'Lie To Me'
'What's My Line'
'Ted'
I can point to bits in those episodes where Angel and Buffy argue or disagree (i.e challenge) and then Buffy at least gets to see his pov.
Less so in S3 but Angel was always moving on to other sthings by that time anyway.
Again, it depends on what version we're talking about since Spike was more comfortable showing his macho tough side to strangers than anything else (see Angel s5) . We just don't know how souled Spike would mainfest 'in-show' without the journeyt that took him there- all that affected his character greatly.