Spike With A Soul In Season 6

white avenger

white avenger
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(This may have been asked before, but if it was, I can't find it)

Let's assume that somehow, without breaking his "promise to (his) lady, that, in the interval between Seasons 5 and 6, Spike managed to regain his soul and was more or less at peace with the initial rush of guilt and despair by the time that Willow and the others managed to resurrect Buffy. How do you think that Season 6 would be different?
 
I think that his relationship with Buffy would have continued in the same vein as in the very beginning of season six - a tentative friendship that would slowly develop into more over time. With a soul, I don't think Buffy would have had as many problems with letting herself be with him. I really liked their early season 6 relationship, it'd have been interesting to see what could have happened had the sexage not got in the way.

He was already on his way to becoming accepted by the Scoobies as part of the team--if only for the muscle he provided--(before Buffy was brought back), so I think if he'd had a soul, they would have continued to accept his help more readily, though I'd imagine Xander would still have reservations.
 
S
StarSlayer
Yeah, I think Xander would have had problems too, since he never accepted Angel even with a soul.
E
eunsoma
Does anyone ever think Xander was pretty hypocritical for not accepting Spike and Angel when Anya prob killed more men than both of them?
I think that Spike and Buffy would have been together regardless but I think it would have formed differently. I think she would have accepted herself sooner. She seemed to always think she was doing something wrong with Spike. So if he had a soul she wouldn't have felt she came back wrong like she said at times.
 
X
xaphania
[No message]
I'd assume that Spike would have more self respect than to be used by Buffy as an emotional crutch but it's possible that if and when Buffy was ready they could have had a more 'holding hands' kind of relationship. If not(i.e. if Buffy didn't end up feeling the same way), I'd assume that Spike would support her in a healthy way (not how things actually transpired in Season 6) and be there for her, using his unrequited love in a positive way and end up being one of Buffy's closest friends.
 
Black Eye Guy said:
Spuffy never would have happened.

Buffy came back dark and needed that dark relationship she had with Spike, he had a soul he wouldn't have been what she needed.

Buffy didn't come back "dark", and she didn't need the type of relationship she had with Spike during season six to surmount whatever she was feeling. Their relationship at that point just fell into place because of the series of events that had unfolded. If Spike had a soul when she came back she wouldn't have had to fight her moral all the time, and clearly would have accepted Spike sooner as her greatest love of all time. 🙂
 
X
xaphania
[No message]
M
Marisa
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S
StarSlayer
Yes!!! Well said :-D
Well the AR in Seeing Red would've never happened. But I don't think Spuffy would've been together, he would've been a champion which is not what Buffy needed at the time. Buffy was going dark, you can't deny that, she didn't need some noble guy telling her right from wrong at that point.
 
Buffy didn't come back "dark", and she didn't need the type of relationship she had with Spike during season six to surmount whatever she was feeling. Their relationship at that point just fell into place because of the series of events that had unfolded. If Spike had a soul when she came back she wouldn't have had to fight her moral all the time, and clearly would have accepted Spike sooner as her greatest love of all time. 🙂

I couldn't disagree more, the only reason Buffy went for Spike was because he was darker, I'm not sure what season you were watching but we definitely had a darker Buffy then we've ever had before.

If Spike had a soul, he would have been in the same boat as Willow, Xander and Giles and Buffy couldn't turn to them because she was 'darker' so she found comfort in Spike
 
Black Eye Guy said:
I couldn't disagree more, the only reason Buffy went for Spike was because he was darker, I'm not sure what season you were watching but we definitely had a darker Buffy then we've ever had before.

If Spike had a soul, he would have been in the same boat as Willow, Xander and Giles and Buffy couldn't turn to them because she was 'darker' so she found comfort in Spike

Soul or no soul Buffy always found more trust and comfort in Spike than she did anyone else, "Touched" and most of season seven anyone?

I don't think Buffy was "dark", saying that just makes the image of DW pop up in my head. It was definitely the more depressing season, but Buffy had just been torn from heaven and was hurting. Spike having a soul doesn't really change my opinion of her seeking him out, regardless he was never a "core" part of the Scoobies and therefore she could still find distance in him. Spike is pretty much Spike, regardless. There isn't really this flip-switch that stands out like we see with Angel.
 
She didn't turn to them because they were the ones who brought her back. Giles wasn't there for her to turn to.

But, I can't see Spuffy happening with an ensouled Spike in S6. Maybe something similar to their S7 friendship, but nothing at all like their S6 sexcapades. I'd like to think he'd try to help her through her depression instead of furthering it like he actually did in S6.
 
I couldn't disagree more, the only reason Buffy went for Spike was because he was darker, I'm not sure what season you were watching but we definitely had a darker Buffy then we've ever had before.

If Spike had a soul, he would have been in the same boat as Willow, Xander and Giles and Buffy couldn't turn to them because she was 'darker' so she found comfort in Spike

First, I agree with Tsquared in that Buffy didn't come back "dark." Yet, her feelings of depression did lead her to believe she belonged in the dark, which is why she retreated and found comfort in Spike. And since Spike was in love with her to begin with, it made the situation that much more complicated.

And, I'm not trying to start a shipping war here, but I don't think the only reason Buffy went for Spike was because he was darker. Before the sex, she did find comfort in him because he did understand what she was going through. Without Spike even pushing her, she opened up to him. She felt comfortable enough to talk to him about being in heaven, for instance.

So, I can totally see Spuffy happening if Spike got his soul from the beginning in s6. The attraction was there, the friendship was there, and, at least for Spike, the love was there. I think Buffy would have not fought her feelings as hard if Spike had a soul in s6, since that was always the main reason she couldn't accept him.
 
T
Tsquared
[No message]
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Black Eye Guy.

I think his use of the word "dark" basically means "depressed, withdrawn, uhappy, self-destructive" etc, etc, etc. I think at first Buffy could talk to Spike because he was separate from the Scoobies, and he wasn't one to ask her to be something she wasn't. Even if she didn't accept his love, or like it much, she could expect it no matter how she acted or what she did, and she may not have felt the same way about the Scoobies. When the sex gets involved, though? That's all Buffy becoming addicted to the pain and twisted-ness of it. He was darker than anybody in the group, he went against every single moral she had, and he caused her a great amount of angst and regret. Beating on him and having sex with him became her outlet.

If Spike had had a soul, maybe the friendship aspect of it would have progressed better. But who knows? Maybe she wouldn't connect to him as much because she was in such a low place, and she may see his soul-having as somehow insanely putting him above her with his newly gained morals. Or maybe his pain and guilt over his soul could have bonded them. It's an interesting idea, and I'd love to see it play out.
 
I think his use of the word "dark" basically means "depressed, withdrawn, uhappy, self-destructive" etc, etc, etc.

Hehe, maybe we just have a different view on "dark" then. When I think of "dark," I think of someone's evil, misbehaving, and even immoral side. The characters, especially Buffy, in s6 definitely explored those sides, but I don't think they are necessary "dark" (with the exception of Spike since he was a vampire with no soul at the time). I can't help but think of Star Wars now, lol! 🙂
 
I agree that Buffy need the soulless Spike at the time cause she was lost...and when someone doesn't feel good about themselves they subconsiouslly try to hurt themselves...she had a lower self esteem about herself cause she didn't feel happy to be back alive so used Spike...If Spike was good and decent it wouldn't have worked..in season 7 yeah cause she was back to normal by then
 
I think in that case, Buffy's re-life was much much better and happier. Spike in season 6, the exist one, draw Buffy into the dark side even more. And that's not totally Spike's fault, because that's, as other before me said, what Buffy needed. But Spike with a soul wouldn't let her lose herself, be more depressed and far from her friends. He would have wanted the best for the, her to be in the light, even if he belonged to the darkness. He would have helped he SO MUCH, because they could actually be real close friends, and it would have worked this way at both sides.
 
W
Willow My Love
That's probably the best response I've read thus far.
I think Spike would have been smarter than to let Buffy use him like that. Yeah, he loved her, and he wanted to be close to her, but he would've seen thats not the way to go. I think he would have tried to set up something more substantial with her, even if that was just a friendship.
 
As has been stated, Spuffy wouldn't have continued the same way as it did. It wouldn't have been all dark with the sex and the constant Buffy re-bounding back to not wanting to speak to him and all of that. It would have started out with the friendship and maybe Buffy would have found herself accepting him more. Because he would be almost...slightly different. She would have been able to feel the change and maybe even open up to him even more than she was in our current season six.

Much of Buffy's new life would have possibly felt safer and happier, like Chosen Enemy said on the first page. She wouldn't have been tempted over to the dark side and sunk deeper into it like she did because of Spike. Maybe she would even find it in herself to actually love him, once she gave him a chance. Hell, maybe the Scooby gang would have even been a bit nicer to him.
 
Buffy was in a state of depression. I suspect that she would have tried to use his vampire state - with a soul or not - as an excuse to use him to deal with her depression. Even if he was a human, she probably would have used his feelings for her to ignore her own depression. As to whether Spike would have allowed her to use him . . . I don't know. Regardless of whether Spike was soulless or not, or whether he was a human or a vampire . . . if he was in love with Buffy and insecure in his own way, chances are he would have allowed her to use him.

Life is not as black and white as many like to believe it is.
 
First post so please excuse me if I'm breaking etiquette.
As has been said before, regardless of his having a soul, I think Buffy and Spike would still have developed a physical relationship, perhaps not one that could demolish buildings so efficiently but still. Buffy sought Spike out, I think, because of her self-hatred, her wanting to self-destruct but also because being with Spike is the only time she felt anything, even if that was the primal urge of sex. Her friends wanted her to be 'Happy to be alive Buffy' and Dawn wanted her to be 'Supportive sister, breadwinner, normal Buffy' while all Spike wanted was her. He wanted her in any form, any shape and any circumstance. Yes as the season progresses he does gripe about the fact that he wants more than angry, sexual intimacy but she knew that his love and obsession would allow her to be whatever she wanted with him. It sounds mean because I think season 6 Buffy was mean, but she knew she could do whatever the heck she wanted to him and he'd still be there wanting more, he was willing to put up with all the abuse and that's what she wanted, someone to tell her that no matter how bad you get, I will still love you, just as Xander did for Willow when she found a very convenient doomsday device in a hill at the end of the season.

So while I've gone off on three different tangents what I meant to say is that Buffy and Spike's bond came from them both being "creatures of the dark" he was obviously non-human and that's how she felt. Whereas if he'd had a soul I think they would both have bonded due to the fact that they've both been expelled from "heaven" - Buffy thinks she was torn out of Heaven while Spike would have had the heavenly bliss of no conscious niggling away at him about all the people he'd killed, suddenly taken from him. Buffy would have to relearn how to live again, how to feel the pains of everyday life and Spike would have had to cope with his new found guilt and felt as is he was in hell too. They would both have leant on each other to cope with all their new guilt - Buffy's guilt of wanting to have remained dead and Spike's of having killed victims he found in coalbins etc.

And I think Spike would still have let Buffy use him to a certain degree because he too would have wanted to be wanted. They would have had sex and instead of him telling her that she was bad to the bone like him as he actually did, he would have said, "Well that was nice, pet. Made nicer by the fact that we are such awfully nice people!" Seeing Red culminated in an attempted assault, had he had a soul I think it would have perhaps ended on them being emotionally where they were in Season 7's Touched, on the cusp of her realising she loved him. Or perhaps that's just where I wanted her to be at the end of season 6! Stupid Buffy.
 
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