Spuffy #2 - General Discussion

[Tranquillity]

I have another idea for this thread...

Okay, so I think I’m pretty safe in saying that Spike and Buffy is one of the (if not THE) most polarizing ships in the 'verse – people seem to either love it or hate it. Obviously, because we’re all members of The Back Steps, we tend to fall into the ‘love’ category…but what is interesting, I think, that even within the Spuffy community there is many different interpretations of Spuffy…So that’s what I want to hear – your personal interpretation of Spuffy.

Some things you might like to discuss include:
When did Spike fall in love with Buffy? Can he love her without a soul? When did Buffy fall in love with Spike? Season six relationship? The AR? Season seven relationship? Did she love him in the end? What about Spuffy post BtVS and into Season eight? What kind of Spike and Buffy do you like in your fanfic reading? Is happy ever after even a remote possibility? etc... etc... Remember this is YOUR Interprestation; YOUR manifesto. Just write it the way you see it.

**Don't forget to keep the general Discussion and Season four comments coming too 🙂

 

[dan k]

I'd have to say Spike started to feel something for Buffy during "Fool for love". He is intent on killing her but then he sees her pain and he can't bring himself to do it. He finds himself wanting to comfort her and doesn't like seeing her in pain.

I'am a firm believer in Spike loving Buffy before he got his soul. He was obsessed about her and couldn't get her out of his mind. He wanted her and showed acts of compassion which meant he wasn't operating just out of lust. He cared about her.

Picking out a certain moment when Buffy fell in love with Spike is hard but i think i'd look at the scene in "Potential" where she shows real concern for him after she knocks him to the floor. It showed that Buffy now cared about Spike's wellbeing and that there relationship was very strong. That moment only lasts a few seconds but its great to see as a fan of Spuffy because you realize that Buffy now cares about him too. Spike's vulerability combined with Buffy's power just makes it a lovely scene to watch.

I liked the season 6 relationship. It had some very hot scenes and i loved the dynamic between the characters. Sarah and James work well with each other.

Season Seven was when the relationship evolved into being two sided. So many great scenes where they just talked and were there for one another, one of the best things about season 7 was seeing how their relationship grew.

I change my mind on a regular basis about whether she loved him in the end. What i will say is that the majority of her behaviour in season 7 pointed to the fact that she did love him. However when he said "no you don't but thanks for saying it" it seemed as if she just accepted that. I think she probably did love him.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

When did Spike fall in love with Buffy?

I don't believe in love at first sight, so I'm not going to say School Hard. Actually... Scratch that. 😛 I will. Btvs is fantasy, so the rules of reality don't apply. 😀 He first fell in love with her in School Hard but didn't realize it until Out of my Mind. In my opinion. :biggrin3:

Can he love her without a soul?

Yes, I believe that he can. As shown by The Judge, Spike retained enough of his humanity to be able to experience human emotions, even though he doesn't act on them appropriately.

When did Buffy fall in love with Spike?

I'm thinking S5, although she didn't realize it 'til Showtime. But it's a difficult question, Buffy's feelings for Spike are quite contradictory lol.

Season six relationship?

I think that you guys will agree that I've discussed and dissected S6 Spuffy enough for this lifetime...

The AR?

Same thing with the AR. And honestly, I'm too lazy to get into it here, again. (sw) We have other places to discuss that.

Season seven relationship?

Friendship, indefinitely. Love, indefinitely. Trust, indefinitely. Romance? Hm. Not really. But I'm happy about that. S7 Spuffy was Simply Beautiful, not sappy and soggy like wet bread. (sw)

Did she love him in the end?

Yes, yes, YES. 😀 Of course. As a friend, a confidante, an equal, and a lover. But as a friend most of all. 🙂 Spuffy friendship=Win. 😀

What about Spuffy post BtVS and into Season eight?

Honestly, I want a couple of things. I would either like Spike and Angel (and Illyria) to ride off into the sunset together and leave Buffy and the SG together (sw), or have Spike and Buffy become friends again. They've both changed a LOT, but they could probably make it work. 😀

What kind of Spike and Buffy do you like in your fanfic reading?

Uh... I'm kinda into PWP. 😛 Hah. Just kidding... Erm, moving on. I don't really like most Spuffy fics, but I suppose that I enjoy the lighter ones that are similar to the show.

Is happy ever after even a remote possibility?

Nope. This isn't a fairy tale; It's Buffy. I predict some vagueness in the ending. 😀

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

When did Spike fall in love with Buffy?

In my opinion, from the second he saw her in the Bronze in 'School Hard.' Yet, I don't believe he realized he was in love with her until Season 5, in "Out Of My Mind."

Can he love her without a soul?

This is something I go back and forth with. Sometimes I think he could and he did. I want to believe he could, because then he could be different, an anomoly. Special.
Other times, it's hard to see it as "love", and not just obsession and lust.
He believed he loved her, I don't doubt that. I only question if in this universe, a vampire without a soul even has the capacity to love. Spike made some very selfless decisions that strongly make me want to believe he did love her, like protecting Dawn and helping out the Scoobies after her death. But, other times...anyway, basically, I think each opinion is valid. Someday I'll make up my mind.

When did Buffy fall in love with Spike?

This is a tough one, but I wager it was sometime during Season 6, but she like him, was in denial. Despite her strong affection for him, I don't think she realized she really loved him until she was faced with the possibility of losing him - in "Chosen."

Season six relationship?

Destructive, damaging, manipulative, unhealthy and endlessly fascinating.

The AR?

A mistake on Spike's part. Yet, incredibly important because it propelled Spike to go on his quest for a soul.

Season seven relationship?

Beautiful, trans formative, true and perfect love characterized by mutual trust, admiration, and real, honest friendship. Two people that connect on such a deep level no words need to be spoken.

Did she love him in the end?

Of course she did.

What about Spuffy post BtVS and into Season eight?

I was upset if took her so long to find out Spike was alive. It looks like Bangel is going to take the crown, but despite this, I'm looking forward to a conversation between Spike and Buffy, and how Spike's role plays out in these last issues.

What kind of Spike and Buffy do you like in your fanfic reading? Is happy ever after even a remote possibility? etc... etc... Remember this is YOUR Interprestation; YOUR manifesto. Just write it the way you see it.

I like to read fic set in canon. I don't like AU, or fluffy stuff.

No, there is no 'happy ever after' for a love story like this. Often, great love is temporary. It burns and consumes, remember? Until there's nothing left. Love like that doesn't last. And I don't want it too. Spuffy, for me, was never about who ended up with who in the end. I 'ship Spuffy as it was in it's perfect unblemished beauty. I couldn't care less if they end up together, really. Spike became a man because of her. Buffy learned to love again. Even if they're not together, the impact they made on each others lives will always remain. This is what true love is to me; to people making each other better.

That's all I need.

not sappy and soggy like wet bread.

Well, if I were to use the bread analogy for Spuffy, I'd say they're hot bread right out of the oven smothered in butter. 😉

 

[thevikingsgirl]

When did Spike fall in love with Buffy?
Sometime before Intervention. I'm not sure exactly when, but that was when *I* realized he definitely loved her. Before that it could have been infatuation/obsession. And the Buffy Bot was pretty creepy.

Can he love her without a soul?
Yes he can, and Joss's inconsistency on the soul issue is kind of annoying at times. But clearly he can.

When did Buffy fall in love with Spike?
I think a part of her loved him in season 6, but it became real love in season 7. I think it was the moment in the church.

Season six relationship?
Unhealthy but fun.

The AR?
AR? What AR? That never happened. (holds ears) la la la la la la

Season seven relationship?
Love it! She finally loves him for who he is and he finally sees himself as worthy of her. He becomes the person she is most dependent upon.

Did she love him in the end?
Absolutely.

What about Spuffy post BtVS and into Season eight? What kind of Spike and Buffy do you like in your fanfic reading? Is happy ever after even a remote possibility?

The Buffyverse ended at Angel season 5 for me. I don't read fan fic.

 

[xaphania]

When did Spike fall in love with Buffy? Can he love her without a soul? When did Buffy fall in love with Spike? Season six relationship? The AR? Season seven relationship? Did she love him in the end? What about Spuffy post BtVS and into Season eight? What kind of Spike and Buffy do you like in your fanfic reading? Is happy ever after even a remote possibility?

I think Spike had feelings for Buffy from his Out of my Mind dream onwards - before that, he was probably attracted to her, there was some lust, but no real feelings. And I think that he fully realised the extent of his feelings at the end of Fool for Love, when he comes across her sitting on the back steps, crying. He goes from angry and wanting to kill her to comforting her in a matter of moments.

I'd guess that he spent a lot of season five warring with himself over whether he really did want to kiss her or kill her but as the season went on, his feelings developed and got deeper and deeper until he withstands Glory's torture in Intervention. I don't think there can be any doubt after that that he's deeply, truly in love with her.

Yes, I think he can love her without a soul. I hate that we're never really given a definitive answer as to what the soul actually *is*. I tend to see it as kind of a moral compass... lack of a soul doesn't mean lack of feeling, it just means lack of morality and lack of guilt over the evil side of a vampire's nature.

However, I think Buffy needed Spike to have a soul before she could fully let herself love him.

Buffy had feelings for Spike throughout season six, but they were so mixed up with her depression and all the badness of everything there that I don't think it could be called love. Their season six relationship was harmful and destructive for both of them and whilst I hate the AR, something like that had been building for a long time - though I wish the writers hadn't decided to go with that as the impetus for Spike getting his soul.

I think Buffy was in love with him for a long while before she realised it herself. And I think that she realised it when the Bringers took Spike. I don't see how you can watch the scene at the end of Showtime and not see how she feels for Spike.

Their season seven relationship is just beautiful. Friendship, love, understanding and an amazing connection that nothing else in the Buffyverse comes close to.

I don't count the comics as canon, so anything that happens in them doesn't really bother me. My canon ended at AtS S5 and after Spike survived the L.A. battle, of course he went and found Buffy - that's just how it goes in my Buffyverse. 🙂

I love all kinds of fanfic. I'll generally read anything as long as it's well-written. I like fics set during canon, missing moments, fill-in-the-blanks, post-Chosen and NFA, wildly AU fics that branch off from a moment in canon, fics that use the premise vampire and slayer but nothing much from the show. I love all-human fics and though I've tried in the past to articulate just why I love them, I can't. The only thing I don't really like is extreme torture fics, though some hurt-comfort is fine. I just love fanfic. 😀

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Yes, I think he can love her without a soul. I hate that we're never really given a definitive answer as to what the soul actually *is*. I tend to see it as kind of a moral compass... lack of a soul doesn't mean lack of feeling, it just means lack of morality and lack of guilt over the evil side of a vampire's nature.

That is how I see the soul in the Buffyverse, too. Like a conscience. Not having a soul simply means you don't know the difference between right and wrong. Spike's small spark of humanity that still remained, what made him special, was nurtured and developed by Buffy and her strong moral compass, therefore the more he hung out with her the more "human" he became.

For me, a "soul" in this context is way of telling right from wrong. Like you said, a moral compass. It could be argued that a vampire without a soul in this 'verse can feel love and affection, hate and anger, etc but he has no humanity, and therefore no way of making choices based on moral "rules." Drusilla says that vampires can love and I believe her.

While thinking about this, I've come to realize something. Some fans argue that Spike couldn't have loved Buffy pre-soul because vampires without a soul can't love. Others argue that Spike was the only vampire without a soul who could love. What I hear a lot from people is that Spike's actions in Season 5-6 were selfish, manipulative, creepy, and motivated by lust. Yet, none of these traits proves he didn't love her. Perhaps the fans are projecting their ideal of love on Spike. Love isn't necessarily moral and selfless. Love is not always supportive. Many think that Spike couldn't love Buffy pre-soul because it was a selfish love. I think I disagree. Love can be selfish and co-dependent. Spike tried to drag her into the darkness with him, Spike tried to rape her... So what? He still could have loved her. It's hard for some people to accept that violence can exist between two people in love. Spike has always been astute and self-reflective. He's the Truth-Sayer of the group. He said on numerous occasions that he loved Buffy. Who are we to say he didn't? He believes he did. That's his truth, so its my truth.

I hope this rant made sense, lol.

However, I think Buffy needed Spike to have a soul before she could fully let herself love him.

I agree. For Buffy, it was impossible to love a "monster."

Buffy had feelings for Spike throughout season six, but they were so mixed up with her depression and all the badness of everything there that I don't think it could be called love. Their season six relationship was harmful and destructive for both of them and whilst I hate the AR, something like that had been building for a long time - though I wish the writers hadn't decided to go with that as the impetus for Spike getting his soul.

Agreed. Even if she didn't love him at this point, she was surely dependent on him to "feel."

I think Buffy was in love with him for a long while before she realised it herself. And I think that she realised it when the Bringers took Spike. I don't see how you can watch the scene at the end of Showtime and not see how she feels for Spike.

Nice. I think she knew it before that, though.

Their season seven relationship is just beautiful. Friendship, love, understanding and an amazing connection that nothing else in the Buffyverse comes close to.

Well said.

 

[dan k]

Watched "As you were" today and the poignant moment that is "goodbye William". In relation to the point Joan made well after Buffy tells him its over you can see in his facial expression just how cut up he is. At this point he knows he is powerless and a real sense of loss is reflected in the way he doesn't even try and convince Buffy to stay. There's no doubt in my mind he loved Buffy before he got his soul back.

 

[xaphania]

Nice. I think she knew it before that, though.

What I mean is... I think she knew, but she didn't know she knew, if that makes sense? Sort of - you don't know what you've got till it's gone.

I don't think I'm explaining very well, lol.

Actually, that's one of the things I like to read about in fics - that Spike either gets fed up of the way things are going between them and leaves, or he starts a relationship with someone else, things along those lines - and Buffy doesn't realise what she had until it's too late. Read some good fic with that premise.

Watched "As you were" today and the poignant moment that is "goodbye William". In relation to the point Joan made well after Buffy tells him its over you can see in his facial expression just how cut up he is. At this point he knows he is powerless and a real sense of loss is reflected in the way he doesn't even try and convince Buffy to stay. There's no doubt in my mind he loved Buffy before he got his soul back.

JM's acting in this scene is superb. And if you can, find the As You Were dailies to watch... there's a set where you see the entire scene from Spike's perspective and he's just amazing in it... if the focus had been on Spike throughout that scene in the show, I don't think anyone would not have felt sympathy for him.

 

[dan k]

I agree about what you say in regard to JM's acting. He doesn't say a word but what he does with his face just makes the scene so powerful. It tells the audience what they need to know without any words being spoken, it tells the audience just how Spike is feeling. That's a testimant of how talented James Marsters is.

 

[dan k]

I watched "Hell's Bells" today and loved seeing the moment where Buffy and Spike talk at the wedding. Suddenly it is as if Spike has a soul and it reminds me so much of the scenes they have in season 7. Its a really kind, sweet conversation where both take each other's feelings into account.

Spike apologizing to Buffy, Buffy admitting that she's jealous, Spike offering to leave. The selfish behaviour that both exhibit in previous episodes seems to evaporate and i think its a really nice moment and an indication that Spuffy could work without all of the physical stuff.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I kinda wanna make a song about Spuffy, lol. Hm. Is anybody good at song writing? (sw)

 

[Tranquillity]

Spike and Buffy
Buffy and Spike

The reason that I love them as a couple is their complexity; their contradictions; the fact that a relationship between a fictional vampire and a fictional slayer can seem so real"¦

And I like that it's not stereotypically romantic! It's messy and confused and yet still beautiful and emotional and . . . real.

I believe that there was attraction, right from the start. The kind of attraction we all experience every day; where you think to yourself "Oh, he/she is hot" when you see someone on the street and then go on with your daily business. He sees her in the Bronze, she meets him in the alley , thoughts cross their minds yada yada yada. Except they don't just get on with their lives"¦he wants to kill her (and tells her so to her face) and she wants to kill him (it's her job). But there is physical awareness there all the same...

And throughout season two Spike develops a reluctant respect for this slayer "“ she's not as easy to kill as the others he's met, and that's why he goes to her for help with his Angelus problem; she's the only one capable of helping him.

But that alliance with Buffy "˜taints' him, at least in Drusilla's eyes. He's covered in the slayer and he tastes like ashes because it's all still there, that admiration, that attraction, all percolating away, albeit unacknowledged.

And Buffy? Well she can't stand him at this stage. No question.

Things change fractionally when Spike moves back to Sunnydale. He gets chipped. He can't be the same vampire he's always been. He has to adapt. He begins his association with Buffy and her crew "“ information in exchange for sanctuary. And while we get the fun of Something Bluethings don't actually change much at all, relationship wise "“ loathing becomes indifference, particularly on Buffy's part.

But still, we get hints "“ we get Spike's aroused interest when Faith teases him while wearing Buffy's Body; we get the graveside flirtation in Superstar; we get her teasing him with her long, exposed, biteable neck; oh yeah, we get hints.

And then comes the day that Spike has a dream. He's just spent the day unsuccessfully conniving to get his chip out of his head and fantasising about killing Buffy and bathing in her blood. At the end of this busy day he has a dream in which he tells Buffy that he loves her. His subconcious feelings become concious. Notice that he doesn't dream her saying that she loves him too "“ even in his dreams he doesn't make that presumption (yet). But he loves her and it's not a happy realisation - he knows what he's like when he's in love. He is a slave to it. He's under its thrall. He is love's bitch and he's compelled to act even against his better judgement. (and that is the reason I can't stand Spike's characterisation in the IDW comics at the moment - He's love bitch, not a man-slut! He is actually shown to be an incredibly constant character throughout the show!!)

And yes, I believe that Spike is capable of loving even without a soul. Of course he is! I don't really understand the argument that you can't.

The soul is an abstract concept of course, but in BtVS it is a divide between good and evil but not the only one. We are shown plenty of evil beings (both souled and unsouled) who love - the Mayor, James, Elizabeth, Dru, Warren, Dark Willow, Dracula. The one shining example of an evil creature who can't love is Angelus"¦maybe he's the odd one out after all? So why should Spike be any different? Of course he can love! I always like Drusilla's quote in instances such as these:

BUFFY: . . . And whatever you think you're feeling; it's not love. You can't love without a soul.
DRUSILLA: Oh, we can, you know. We can love quite well, If not wisely.

So then Riley leaves town and Buffy has a God-problem and she co-opts Spike into her team, for real this time. She needs his strength. She needs him to protect her sister. And he accepts the job "“ that is the amazing part! And the relationship shifts "“ she excuses him for being in love with her, she forgets about the robot-incident, she's grateful for his silence, she appreciates his assistance. They move to something a little bit like allies. And I have to point out that there is an element of trust that is implicit in the relationship. Buffy trusts Spike and that trust gives Spike other options, other ideas about how to be a vampire.

And then Buffy dies and is ressurected and this is where things get confusing for Buffy. After she comes back she feels a connection to Spike, spend time with him, seeks out his company and enjoys it. He is the only one she can stand to be around - and that dormant attraction that has always been there gets acknowledged. And it's confusing - she is attracted, but he's a vampire, he makes her feel, but he is a vampire without a soul, he loves her, and she has feelings for him...but...but he is a vampire without a soul and that is an insummountable obstical for them.

See, I don't believe that Buffy can't love Spike because he is a unsouled vampire. I believe that she can't love Spike, an unsouled vampire becuase she is the vampire slayer. It is not that she doesn't love Spike - it's that admitting such feelings is contradictory to her calling. And while I'm at it, I must confess that I'm not a big fan of the 'Buffy was depressed" explanation for the Spike and Buffy affaire in season six. If Buffy was having sex out of sheer depression wouldn't it be easier to go out and shag an anonymous stranger in the pub? Why the hell would she pick Spike? He's not conveinient. He's not a simple choice. He is, in face, exponentionally more complicated that having a one-night stand with a stranger! That is why I believe that there is waaay more to it than meets the eye.

So I suppose I would argue that Buffy did love Spike in season six but that to acknowledge that would be too dangerous and put her mission in jepoardy and that when she realises and accepts this she breaks up with him (in As You Were.)

Which of course brings up the AR. I'm always one who says embrace the AR - It happened in the context of the story, it led to better things and it is truely reflective of the mess that Buffy and Spike created with their fling. It was dangerous, it was destructive, it was desperate, it was a mess (but a genuinely intriguing mess!). The AR simply bought that all to a head.

Spuffy in season seven is of course the absolute antithesis to season six - it embodies everything that the season six relationship lacked - care, empathy, support, faith, forgiveness and pure love. It is simply beautiful! And of course she loved him in the end. The long-running side-story concerning Buffy's ability to love makes absolutely no sense if she doesn't love him in the end! plus, who can argue with firey hands!!

Post-season 7 I'm in the camp who doesn't think that Buffy knows that Spike is alive. But I am preparing to be wrong about that becuase who knows what is about to happen in the comics... But I'm happy that Joss is the one writing the final arc of the season and I think *crosses fingers* that we can trust him to treat Spike, and Spike and Buffy's relationship with respect.

I'm not one who believes that Spike and Buffy will have some big romantic reunion or even need a happy ever after - Because i think they have kind of moved on - This is hard to explain... ...What i think is that Spike and Buffy's love is bigger than mere romantic love - It's huge... they have a connection beyond love or friendship - he's died for the world and for her and come back again and she knows what that's like - that forges a connection, it must.

I'm not, I repeat NOT, saying that Buffy owes Spike her love because he died for her and got a soul for her and looked after Dawn for her and built up a tally of points that make him be worthy of love. I HATE that whole idea! But I do believe that Buffy and Spike have shared experiences that bond them, they love and respect each other and that Buffy will forgive him just about anything (including not telling her that he is alive) and visa versa. Whether they ever get "romantic" with one another ever again I would highly doubt, but if they don't show the depth and power of their attachment, of there connection then I will be sorely disppointed.

To finish off this ridiculously long rant I will share something I wrote ages ago in response to the ficlett prompt "MIDDLE":


Middles

Angel's old Honey rocks into town,
Snyder's on my case. Again.
Halloween and things get wacky.
Right in the middle of it all? Spike.

My Honey's gone bad,
Angelus is on an apocalyptic rampage,
They've got my watcher.
Smack, bang in the middle
And he's all I've got; Spike.

Will and Xand are missing,
Giles is at some Watcher's retreat!
You guessed it "“ Spike,
Right in the middle, root cause of it all.
And damn, if he doesn't talk the truth and isn't fooled by my shit,
And he gets on with my mother!
Little baby marshmallows indeed.

A new life; a new love (well, sort of)
Friends drifting apart
And yup "“ he's back in town
Chipped and impotent but strangely useful (well, sort of)
But with that new love I hardly notice Spike exists.
But he's right there, in the middle, causing trouble, flip-flopping like a dying fish.

The new love fades.
A hell-god is after my sister who appeared out of nowhere.
But I kinda love her with ferocity and I'll protect her till the day I die.
I need help with that. Surprise, surprise who's right in the middle?
Ya huh, Spike.
Oh, he's fallen in love with me, or so he says.
I don't put much stock in that.
Useful as he is; he's still a vampire "“ without a soul.

I died. He kept count of the days.
I came back
And then Spike's not so much in the middle as he is everywhere,
He's the only one I can stand to be around
He loves me, and god, does he make me feel.
He loves me but we hurt each other.
I feel. I have feelings. For him.
But it's just not right and things go to hell and I think that I can't stand him;
He's still in the middle.

And then I find him crazy in the school basement.
His problems become mine and it's not coddling!
Oh yeah, still firmly in the middle
Crazy vampire went and got himself a soul!
I'm pretty proud of that soul. Of him.
I believe in him.
He's in front of me, at my side. He's got my back, he's my right hand,
My champion. I rely on him.
He's my centre. My middle.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I watched "Hell's Bells" today and loved seeing the moment where Buffy and Spike talk at the wedding. Suddenly it is as if Spike has a soul and it reminds me so much of the scenes they have in season 7. Its a really kind, sweet conversation where both take each other's feelings into account.

Spike apologizing to Buffy, Buffy admitting that she's jealous, Spike offering to leave. The selfish behaviour that both exhibit in previous episodes seems to evaporate and i think its a really nice moment and an indication that Spuffy could work without all of the physical stuff.

Dan, this is one of my very favorite scenes in the entire Spuffy relationship, and it's so often overlooked. Beautiful scene.

 

[Tranquillity]

Okay... back to our seasonal Spuffy discussion prompt.

We are now up to Season Five...

What are your favourite spuffy:
Episodes (and why):
Scenes (and why):
Moments (and why):

What do you like about season five Spuffy developments?
Any signs of where it was heading?

thoughts/feelings about season Five Spuffy?

 

[xaphania]

Season five is my very favourite Spuffy.

Favourite episodes - Fool for Love, Crush, Intervention and The Gift.

Scenes - Out For a Walk. Bitch., Spike's monologue at the end of FFL, anything with the Buffybot, "Right person. Person I loved. I'd do it." in Tough Love, the look on his face at the end of Crush when she closes the door on him, "I know I'm a monster, but you treat me like a man," in The Gift and when Spike breaks down at the end of that episode. 🙁

What do you like about season five Spuffy developments?
Any signs of where it was heading?

I love the snarkiness. I love that Spike doesn't seem to know whether he wants to kiss her or kill her. I love the potential the relationship had at this point, before all the badness. First time watching, I hoped that they would get together at some point but I never guessed it'd happen as it did in s6 and s7.

 

[dan k]

Crush is a great episode. Buffy learning about Spike's feelings, her reaction, all in all its great entertainment. Two awesome characters, two awesome actors who play out each scene so well.

The bit at the end of "Intervention" is touching. Buffy finally realises the true depths of Spike's feelings, forces her to start seeing him in a new light.

Spike breaking down at the end of "The Gift" illustrates just how much he loved her. It seemed so real, fantastic from James.#

Season Five developments were interesting. It was unexpected but i thought it played out really well. Some people say Spike came across as pathetic but i'd disagree. Spike was in love with a woman who he simply couldn't get out of his head. He was still however the Spike we loved deep down. The humour was still there and so was the obsession with a woman yet this time it was Buffy not Dru.

I liked how he became devoted to her and how he fought by her side. The emotion he felt at losing her showed how diverse Spike was as a character. Season five showed us that Spike could feel and that he wasn't just a Vampire with a chip in head. It also brought James and Sarah closer together in scenes which was brillant viewing.

In terms of signs of where they were heading i don't think season five provided any concrete signs. What it did was tell the fans that a relationship in the future might be possible. Buffy had a new found respect for Spike but i don't think it was love at this point.

 

[Kelsey]

S5 was my favorite for a lot of reasons. I'll be a little selfish and say I'd rather S6 hadn't happened--or parts of it--simply because I didn't WANT to see my favorite characters acting that way. I also didn't want to be given a relationship that at first seemed incredible and amazing, and then turned into something so dark and twisted. Yes, I understand character development and moving the plot forward and Spike didn't have a soul and blah-blah-blah--I'll still wish certain aspects of S6 hadn't gone down the way they did. I would have preferred another direction entirely for the Spuffy relationship.

Ahem, anyway, S5. Like Xaphania said, excellent potential for a relationship. I loved the "courtly love" format their relationship had taken, with Buffy above Spike and Spike struggling to make himself worthy of her. He does that later, but he takes a definite detour once sex becomes involved. Also, S5 has some of Spike's BEST moments--those moments where I shouted, "I KNEW IT! I KNEW he could be good!" My faith was not wasted in S5. One of the smallest scenes that I might love the most is right before the "I'd do it... right person" speech, where Spike reaches out to Dawn to comfort her when she's crying. He pulls his hand away like he's embarrassed, and there's no ulterior motive in the gesture. It's just an honest desire to comfort someone. Same with leaving cardless flowers for Joyce. Moments like that make me glad I'm a Spike fan, if only to wait around for the next one to come along.

Yep, S5 was a good one!

 

[thevikingsgirl]

Okay... back to our seasonal Spuffy discussion prompt.

We are now up to Season Five...

What are your favourite spuffy:
Episodes (and why):
Scenes (and why):
Moments (and why):

What do you like about season five Spuffy developments?
Any signs of where it was heading?

thoughts/feelings about season Five Spuffy?

Season 5 is my favorite Buffy season overall. Fool for Love is my favorite Buffy episode (though there are many that come close). The first time I watched it I watched the final scene when he goes to shoot her and ends up comforting her 3 times in a row. I loved the moment in Intervention when she pretends to be the Buffybot. When he realizes it's really Buffy. Love that. Huge turning point for them. I thought season 5 was funny, and touching, and building up to something great (no, not season 6 really...just...the way things went overall). I loved it.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

New week, so... I guess it's time for S6 Spuffy! Which, coincidentally, is my favoritee! 😀

What are your favourite s6 spuffy:
Episodes (and why):
Scenes (and why):
Moments (and why):

What do you like about season six Spuffy developments?

What don't you like about S6 spuffy?

Any signs of where it was heading?

thoughts/feelings about season six Spuffy?



I don't really have a favorite Spuffy S6 episode, but I suppose I'll go with Tabula Rasa, Older and Faraway, and Smashed. Granted, Smashed is a pretty lame episode, but the ending is epic. Epic! (sw)

My favorite scene would be all of the Spuffy scenes in Older and Faraway. They were so cute, with their bantering and flirting. 🙂 I also really like their scenes in All the Way, the work together so well.

My favorite moment would be the Tabula Rasa kiss. Why? Because it's my favorite t.v. kiss ever. And I'm not even really sure why. 😀

I felt that S6 Spuffy was the most monumental. Also, the most fascinating. And humorous. Simply because you look at where they were in S2... Sworn enemies. And then you look at them in S6. Makes me laugh. 😉 And really, you can ponder S6 Spuffy for ages and not have it completely figured out. It's very ambiguous, and makes you wonder. Especially since half the time they were beating each other up as foreplay and the other half they were actually being cute and sweet, like in the beginning of Dead Things. It's confusing lol.

I don't like the more painful sides of it... Spike hurting Buffy, trying to rape her. Buffy beating the fudge out of Spike in Dead Things. Stuff like that.

I don't think that there were any huge signs... Although Spike getting his soul was certainly a hint that something important would happen. Luckily, it didn't turn Bangely. 😉

I just love S6... But, then again, you guys know that. :wink2: But I suppose I like S6 the most because it was the most hardcore season, besides S2, of course. I don't really like the sappy Spuffy scenes.