Spuffy #4 - General Discussion

[prophecygrrl]

Thanks for the welcome! 😀 😀

The "dark place" thing originally irked me partly because I knew how Jeanty and Scott Allie felt about Spuffy (and that perhaps Joss really couldn't care less about Spuffy vs. Bangel), so I wasn't sure if it was meant as a positive thing. But then the BB Spuffies and some meta writers turned me around and I'm all for the "dark place" now. The dark place, classic Spuffy back porch- I love it all. 😀

Ooh, and thanks for the link to that article. I haven't finished reading it yet, but it's really fascinating! 🙂

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

You don't want to use it up by having Spike standing around in the background of every frame. He means so much to Buffy, so did Angel, that you want to save them for the big hits. -- Joss Whedon on the the comics.

 

[xaphania]

Sound reasoning on Buffy choosing between Angel and Spike from gabrielleabelle.

There's a common resigned sentiment among Spuffy fans that Buffy, if given the choice between Angel and Spike, would end up choosing Angel.

People, friends of mine, this is silly. In canon, we've had one clear instance where Buffy was given a choice between Angel and Spike. She chose Spike.

Full post - Buffy's Choice

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Litheran agrees: haha, your welcome for that.

I'll admit, I did steal my above quote from you, yes, but in all fairness I had heard it before.

😉

Sound reasoning on Buffy choosing between Angel and Spike from gabrielleabelle.

Full post - Buffy's Choice

True. Maybe she'll choose him again. This time for good.

(A girl can dream, right?)

 

[Tranquillity]

New Questions!

1. What's your least favourite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?

3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement?

Answer any or all - add questions if you want to too 🙂

 

[Litheran]

I'll admit, I did steal my above quote from you, yes, but in all fairness I had heard it before.

No worries luv; I'm just tickled someone liked it as much as me.

😀

1. What's your least favourite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?

Only scene I don't love watching with them is from Seeing Red. Even the sad ones are captivating.

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?

For my fic(s); I always picture him as he looked in the bronze scene from Crush; the part where he sits down to talk to Buffy. Wardrobe wise is more along the lines of the stuff from season seven pre-duster..

For Buffy I always visualize her as looking like she did at the beginning of Wrecked; after waking up next to Spike.

3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?

Absotively; I thrive on input and feedback though, which I don't get at the site I post now. Which is why I'm going to port everything over to LJ.

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?

I believe she knows his human name was William; nothing more. Spike wouldn't have divulged anything like that to Buffy pre-soul. And if it gets stated that she does know; well that would be a horrible waste of an interesting story, Buffy discovering the man he was and is trying to be.

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement?

Bit of both.

*orders another round of perpetual torment and rereads season 8 comics.*

Setting up shop at Dark Horse was a horrible decision; moving Angel and Co. there was a moronic bordering on clinically stupid one. At this point I'd rather they just get it over with and finish the story so I can get on with my life. If it had all been through IDW I'd say keep doing comics until Buffy's retirement age.

 

[xaphania]

1. What's your least favourite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?

The AR in Seeing Red. As Litheran said, everything else is captivating. I love everything about Spuffy, except the bathroom scene. 🙁

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?

It depends on which season the fic is set in. My imagination will pretty much put that season's Spike and Buffy into play. If it's post-NFA then it's usually Season Seven Spike. If it's all-human, he tends to look like Season Five Spike.

3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?

I've written more than I ever thought I would when I joined the fandom! I love writing fic and I seem to have readers who love the fics, so that makes me happy. I post at The Spuffy Realm, Elysian Fields, Bloodshedverse, Sweet Temptation, fanfiction.net and my livejournal. 😀 I feel a bit vain posting at like, every site possible, but if it gets your stuff out there... Anyway, all of my fic (Spuffy and non-Spuffy) can be found at my masterlist here.

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?

By the end of Season Seven, probably as much as he told her in Fool for Love - the "I've always been bad" scenario, at least. I think that if they were to meet up and be together into the future, it might be something he would confide in her. But in canon as far as the show stands - not much.

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement?

Seeing as I don't think there's a coherent plot in season 8, I'm unfortunately going to have to say the former.

 

[StarSlayer]

1. What's your least favourite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?

I don't think I can pick one from every season because it's really just the bathroom scene that's my least favorite. It's the one scene I'll fast forward after Buffy and Spike talk.

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?

If the fanfiction takes place post-Chosen, then I picture Spike as he was in s7, or even sometimes as he was in AtS s5.

3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?

Nope, and I'm not really planning to. I don't think I'm that creative when it comes to writing fanfiction. But hey, I said the same thing about making banners (and I love making them now), so maybe that'll change someday. 🙂 In the meantime, I'm happy with just reading them 🙂

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?

I don't think Buffy knows too much about William except from what Spike said in FFL. Yet, even then, Buffy didn't realize that Halfrek was Cecily, and Spike didn't bother to mention it. So, even with the little Buffy knew about William, I don't think she really understood it. Like, I don't think Buffy really understood just how insecure William was until Spike got his soul back.

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement?

I think both. Yet, I'm not too invested in the comics. I'm just curious to see how Spuffy develops 🙂

 

[xaphania]

Reading the responses to the fourth question made me wonder... does everyone else think that Spike told Buffy the truth regarding William's bad-poet past, and Cecily's rejection of him?

Cos... I've always thought that he didn't tell her the truth. That in the scene, when he starts with "I've always been bad..." he then goes on to lie to her about his William days, despite the viewers seeing the truth.

I don't think at that point he would have admitted any of it to her. It was hugely humiliating for William, why would he have told Buffy - who at that point is still pretty much his enemy - about his greatest embarassment? Why would he tell her that he used to write bad poetry... surely he'd see that as providing her with ammunition.

Perhaps I'm in the minority opinion here, but that's how I've always read the scene.

 

[Litheran]

Yeah; him saying I've always been bad makes us think were about to see William the Bloody; some awful hooligan or brawler. And then were confronted with sweet adorable William; and from that point on Spike is never the same.

Buffy might have learned a little bit of this in season seven; though I doubt it.

 

[StarSlayer]

Reading the responses to the fourth question made me wonder... does everyone else think that Spike told Buffy the truth regarding William's bad-poet past, and Cecily's rejection of him?

Cos... I've always thought that he didn't tell her the truth. That in the scene, when he starts with "I've always been bad..." he then goes on to lie to her about his William days, despite the viewers seeing the truth.

I don't think at that point he would have admitted any of it to her. It was hugely humiliating for William, why would he have told Buffy - who at that point is still pretty much his enemy - about his greatest embarassment? Why would he tell her that he used to write bad poetry... surely he'd see that as providing her with ammunition.

Perhaps I'm in the minority opinion here, but that's how I've always read the scene.

I've always felt Spike didn't tell the whole truth. Like you said, the complete contrast after Spike says, "I've always been bad" leads me to believe that too. Buffy also just says in response, "So you traded up on the food chain," when it clearly was just more than that. Maybe he didn't tell her about his poetry, but he does mention how he was "fed up with society's rules."

I always wondered though...when Buffy said Spike was beneath her, I go back and forth whether Buffy said it because Spike told her Cecily said it, or she said it not knowing Cecily said it. What do you guys think?

 

[The Unspoken]

I've always felt Spike didn't tell the whole truth. Like you said, the complete contrast after Spike says, "I've always been bad" leads me to believe that too. Buffy also just says in response, "So you traded up on the food chain," when it clearly was just more than that. Maybe he didn't tell her about his poetry, but he does mention how he was "fed up with society's rules."

I always wondered though...when Buffy said Spike was beneath her, I go back and forth whether Buffy said it because Spike told her Cecily said it, or she said it not knowing Cecily said it. What do you guys think?

He was playing with her feelings, so he only told her what he wanted her to know, which doesn't include anything that would make him come across as vulnerable. And I don't think Spike would be as devastated if Buffy's insult was (partially) 'inspired' by Cecily's.

In 'Touched' and 'End of Days', Spike makes quite an effort to let Buffy know the extent of his feelings for her, so I think she knows very little of his past.

 

[Tranquillity]

I think that Spike is a very unreliable narrator in Fool for Love - what we saw is not what he told Buffy, so I would think that Buffy knows very little about William at all. I always put the 'You're beneth me' in the same category as "Close your eyes" and "The mission is what matters" - they are words that mean a lot to the person who Buffy is saying them to but that Buffy herself isn't really aware of the impact/significance of those words.

 

[BananaBuffy]

1. What's your least favourite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?

There's actually not one Buffy/Spike scene that I dislike to be completely honest. I couldn't choose one fro each season and, obviously the answer should be 'the bathroom scene' but I actually never fast foreward it. I don't like it but I'm not as opposed to it as most people are. I can understand the feelings towards it but I find I have to watch it as it adds plot development and I don't think it was as bad as people made out.

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?

That's actually a really good question. I'm not sure. I think it's either, James in season six or James in season four. I can't exactly explain why, that's just how it comes.

3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?

I haven't written one, I want to but I have no faith in my writing ability. I have loads of ideas but I don't think any of them are good enough for fanfiction, mostly becasue they're strange and some of them don't make any sense. I don't feel comfortable enough portraying the characters. It's sad.

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?

I don't think she knows much at all, who would have told her? I wish she did, it would be interesting to have her find out more about him. Maybe that's a fanfic I'd do, time travel one. That sounds so totally corny though. Sigh.

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement?

Well, the only thing that is drawing me to the comics is seeing how Spuffy develops in the future and seeing Spike but I haven't read them yet. I'll judge later.

 

[xaphania]

Maybe that's a fanfic I'd do, time travel one. That sounds so totally corny though. Sigh.

Definitely not corny! Time travel is one of the most popular Spuffy fic-genres out there and there's not enough fic to satisfy everyone's needs, LOL. Constantly seeing requests at Spuffy Realm's find-a-fic forum for time-travel recs.

I know I love a good time-travel fic. UB's Forward to Time Past is in my top 5 favourite fics ever list, lol.

Write it! You never know until you have a go whether you can or not!

 

[ElmoHasAGun]

1. What's your least favorite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?
Each season? The only two Spuffy scenes I can't watch are the bathroom scene in SR and when she beats him up in the alley in Dead Things. Both horrible. Other than them I love watching Spike and Buffy.

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?
Nothing specific but for some reason his hair is almost always kinda messy/curly.

3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?
I've written a few bits of fanfiction here and there, most of it Spuffy but I've never posted any of it online. Might one day. I suppose I'm nervous.

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?
Nothing at all. Other than what he told her in Fool for Love I think that would be a subject Spike would want to keep her in the dark about. It would've been cool for Buffy to find out about real William though.

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement?
The world is ending. Spike has to be there.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I always wondered though...when Buffy said Spike was beneath her, I go back and forth whether Buffy said it because Spike told her Cecily said it, or she said it not knowing Cecily said it. What do you guys think?

I believe Spike told her what Cecily said. She repeated those words in an attempt to hurt Spike. Coming up with them herself would have been too much of a coincidence.

1. What's your least favourite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?

I'm in agreement with everyone else that there are no Spuffy scenes I dislike. They're all important to the journey of these two characters, and the story couldn't be told without everything included. I've made peace with the AR. I understand why it was written, and good came out of it.

Yet, I always have a hard time watching the alley scene in "Dead Things." The way Spike just lays there and lets her beat on him....it makes me cry.

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?

Interesting question. Probably somewhere in the middle. Like, Season 5 maybe.

3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?

I have written a few short stories, that's it. I'm not much of a fiction writer, but I do have some ideas for some one-shots I'd like to develop.

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?

As much as he told her in "Fool For Love" - which is not much.

I don't know, though. I could see Spike telling her more in Season 7, during one of their nightly talks. In fact, that woulld be a great idea for a fic...

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement.

Hmm. I like to think the later.

 

[Litheran]

I believe Spike told her what Cecily said. She repeated those words in an attempt to hurt Spike. Coming up with them herself would have been too much of a coincidence.

Just from other instances where it's happened in the show; I think it was.. I don't wanna say coincidence, but I don't think Buffy knew what those words meant to him.

Like Tranquility said certain phrases have a way of coming back to haunt characters. That's why I don't think Spike's rage in the episode was at Buffy using something she heard. I think it was at himself that after living as a bad-ass vampire for 120 odd years; a woman could still come to the conclusion that he was "beneath her".

It speaks more to me that way than for Spike to freely admit his shameful past. And I can't believe Buffy would be THAT cruel pre-season six.

I suddenly feel like doing a Spuffy vid set to the song "Bad Company".

 

[Tranquillity]

1. What's your least favourite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?

Season 2 - don't have one - though how Spike shrugs and leaves Buffy to die at the end of Becoming is a little cold 😉
Season 4 - In Something Blue when Spike starts talking about not being able to protect Buffy, I always enjoy it when Buffy puts him in his place. luckily he never seems to worry about the need to 'protect' Buffy ever again.
Season 5 - Not strictly Spuffy, but I really find the scene where Spike goes to the Magic Shop after he held Buffy captive in Crush and Giles and the scoobies go really mad at him very uncomfortable to watch. I usually look away. I'm not saying the scoobies should be nice to him or anything, I just hate his lame excuses and the fact that he even went to the shop in the first place.
Seson 6 - The Bathroom scene, enough said.
Season 7 - I don't have one in this season - I love them all (but sometimes I do wish he hadn't have said "no you don't but thanks for saying it")

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?

Season four or five 🙂

3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?

Yeah, I used to dabble in fanfic, before the comics I was forever imagining/writing reunion scenes between Buffy and Spike or little drabbles about their thoughts/feelings after certain events in the series. . . but since the comics have been in publication I haven't really felt the urge to write any Spuffy fanfic. maybe in the gap between season 8 and 9 i will look at some of my old stuff and see if its worth publishing on my LJ...

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?

Not much. Although we got to see Spike's story, i don't think he told Buffy anything like what we saw.

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement?

I want to say important contributor to plot advancement but I'm beguinning to suspect that he's window dressing. Guess we'll know for sure by the end of the week. I really hope that Spike was bought in mainly because he will be important to season nine.

 

[SailorSarah]

Because this is a general Spuffy thread, I just wanted to bring up something I was thinking about. I haven't read many Buffy forums, so I'm sure someone has mentioned this before, but anyway. So, I was rewatching the awesome ending scene in Smashed, and I was thinking what I always think when I watch it. It's just incredibly intimate that they are looking into each other's eyes when they first start to have sex. That does not suggest a shameful, 'just for sex' relationship to me. I have always thought that it's very difficult to do that because it makes you feel so vulnerable. I'm sure the people who made the episode could say that it was symbolic for her looking into the dark side of what she was doing or something, but on a basic level, I think that scene suggests that there is already quite a lot of emotional depth to their relationship already. I almost feel like they're in love in that moment, even though I guess the rest of the show would suggest that that hasn't happened yet. Has anyone else ever had this thought at this scene?