Spuffy #6 - General Discussion

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

zobothehobo agrees: Spike's the one I want to be happy too. Because he wants it is why I started shipping Spuffy.

I also want to mention that I wholeheartedly believe that Spike is the right guy for Buffy, who I also love dearly and desperately want to be happy.

Spike is Buffy's other half, her Shadow Self - he challenges her, he's her right-hand man, her ally, and best friend. She can trust him. Together, they've seen the best and the worst of each other, and they've emerged full-circle. They balance each other out, and compliment each other. They are each other's soul-mates.

That said, it's highly plausible that despite the obvious, and due to her habit of making misguided choices, Buffy might not choose Spike.

Then, of course, he should be with Faith. 😉

Now most of you know I love both our soulful vamps; both are interesting characters and I share different parts of my history/personality with them. Angelus was a better monster than Spike; but Spike's a better man than Angel. "If You Can Reach Me" by Spuffy Pr0duction's is my favorite Buffy vid because it demonstrates perfectly the difference in how Spike and Angel handle their love for Buffy.

I know, right? That video is truly something. I have it saved on my harddrive, and occasionally watch it over breakfast. It's just...so...good.

When ever I go back and do a re-watch (every three months or so) of both series I always get tingles leading up to season five; knowing Spike is going to realize what I suspected since School Hard, and knew for certain since Becoming Part II.

I'm doing a re-watch now, and chronicling it on my blog. I'm currently at "School Hard". What I was delighted to notice this time around was how dead-on the song playing is the first time Spike see's Buffy in the Bronze. The lyrics basically map the trajectory of Spike and Buffys relationship thoughout the seasons. Seriously. It's eerie. Next time you watch that ep, listen to the lyrics;

I did a stupid thing last night,
I called you.
A moment of weakness.
No, not a moment,
More like three months of weakness.

I'm one step away from crashing to my knees.
One step away from spilling my guts to you.

I did a stupid thing last night,
I called you.
I'm doing all right.
No, don't feel sorry for me,
Really, I'm all right.

Three months in Buffy-verse time was exactly the amount of time that the two were sleeping together, and man, how many times have we seen Spike on his knees for Buffy? Gotta love the forshadowing. I know that Joss planned his seasons in advance, and I'm sure he planned to bring Spike and Buffy together from the beginning.

I don't think of him deserving it when trying to explain why Spike is Buffy's rightful guy. The thing that comes to my mind is simply him being hers. Whether Buffy ever fully accepts that or makes the same commitment is unknown; but whether the comics tinker with it or the story never gets a proper sendoff doesn't matter. I know from now until Spike turns to dust that there will never be a woman for him besides Buffy.

This is how I see it , too. Not so much as he deserving her, but rather I meant that he deserves to be with someone who loves him as much as he loves her.

And I certainly agree that there will never be another girl that Spike loves more than Buffy. She is his everything, his "hero. Together, they define grace.

P.S. I'm just a few days away from porting my stories from fanfiction.net to my livejournal so expect a report soon. 😉

I'm excited to read them!

As I have missed my fellow Spuffies; just needed a little space since there seemed to be a mini shipper war going on; and I'm tired of trying to make people understand that sometimes, just sometimes; 1 + 1 = 1.

Ha, yes!

I'm also really trying to get a bunch of stuff in order that I've let lapse. The more in shape I get the closer I get to going away for basic training and once I get back from that I'll have to make preparations for moving to whichever base I get stationed at. I've been trying to maintain a safe distance from message boards cause I could talk about geek stuff all day long. Luckily a new company is managing my hotel so I have internet back at work. Meaning I'm getting paid to post.

😀

I feel it. Life has been busy for me, too. I just recently moved, and I'm trying to get promoted so I've been working extra-hard at work.

I'm glad you got into the military like you wanted. I know last time I talked to you you said you were not sure if you were going to be able to do it, if I'm correct.

 

[Litheran]

Yeah, once I lose the extra weight I'm pretty much good to go; although I don't think they needed to laugh so hard when I asked about the secret demon hunting platoon.

😀

I haven't looked; but does anyone know offhand how long until season nine starts up? I'm guessing a bit yet since Avengers is still in full swing.

I wish you all were in my neck of the woods; it sucks doing re-watches without being able to discuss the show and revel in the Spuffy with people who "get it".

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

We have to wait until September? *cries*

It's pure torture.

 

[prophecygrrl]

We have to wait until September? *cries*

It's pure torture.

I think they're releasing a Spike mini-series (written by Jane Espenson) sometime in the summer though. I'm so excited. 😀 😀

Even if I doubt Joss is going to put Buffy and Spike together romantically (not that I don't still hold that sliver of hope), I am glad we'll at least get to see them in a friend-capacity in Season 9. Buffy needs a friend right now. The fact that it's Spike is just a plus. 😀

 

[nmcil12]

not sure this will come out on the right place but I just wanted to add my "great manip" on the Buffy-Spike and Bike image. Obviously I have a lot to learn about how to post here - the image I meant to comment on is on page 8 -

---------- Post added at 03:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 AM ----------

What's your policy on late homework? 😱

Hee. I've got fic recs and something cool to 'show'!

I'm a relatively new fan of BtVS and Spuffy compared to a lot of you, so I'm still working my way through the fandom, particularly through 'classic' fics at the moment. Someone recommended the writer Ariane to me a while ago, but unfortunately a lot of the links on her website are not working anymore. (I think the site was hosted on geocities or something way back when...) I was really bummed at first, but in the last couple weeks or so I've realized that you can use The Way Back Machine to access most of them!

Just head to the Way Back Machine, type in http://www.arianewrites.com/DarkDreamsFIC.html in the box, and the links work again!

The Destinations of the Heart series is really amazing. I highly recommend it. I haven't read all of her fics, but Ariane is wonderful so far and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend just about everything. 😀

You can use The Way Back Machine for a lot of other old, inactive Spuffy sites too. You won't be able to access everything for some sites, (I tried to go on the Buffy & Spike Diaries fanfic archive, but the fics won't show up!) but it's great fun to browse anyway.

These sites seem to work really well:

• http://www.geocities.com/inamorati_sb
• http://www.arianewrites.com/DarkDreamsFIC.html
• http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/dbtd/archive.htm
• http://nothinglikethesun.com

There's a lot of fics that can't be found elsewhere hosted on these sites. If you're a fic-lover like me and you're always looking for great fics to read, you can use the Way Back Machine to play around and find them. Happy reading. 🙂

Thanks for all the links I love this outstanding early Buffyverse writer -
On the great news is that Ariane has started doing her site again - both good news and bad news however. Please check out the link: http://www.arianewrites.com/ddNew.html

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

While watching School Hard on my recent re-watch, something accured to me.

Anyone ever pay attention to the song that's playing in the Bronze the first time Spike sees Buffy?

It's "Stupid Thing" by a band called Nickel, and the lyrics scarily describe the dynamic of Spike and Buffy's relationship.

Here's what I posted on my re-watch LJ about it; http://i-rewatch-buffy.livejournal.com/tag/school hard

 

[zobothehobo]

This part of it made me go "holy crap."

You see, there's this huge chunk of me missing.
It's gone.
And I can' feel it, I can't feel it,
I can't feel.

Like... wow. That so perfectly describes both of them at various points in their relationship.

 

[Litheran]

So, apparently Brian Lynch throws out some crumbs in the Spike series about Buffy finding out he was alive? Did anyone else know this; why wasn't this in the newsletter people?

 

[zobothehobo]

What? No, I didn't know that. What happened those who have read it? What happened?

 

[prophecygrrl]

So, apparently Brian Lynch throws out some crumbs in the Spike series about Buffy finding out he was alive? Did anyone else know this; why wasn't this in the newsletter people?

lol! Yeah, it was in the issue that just came out I think. Hold on a sec and I can give you a link to the page. I think it was in the free preview of the issue.

eta: ack no, I was wrong. it's not in the free preview of the issue and I don't think I'm allowed to link any scans. Someone did post the text version of that scene though here: http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?p=234080#234080

8)We learn about when Buffy learned Spike was back.

Willow: You don't need me to?

Spike: Go home/Check in with Sergeant Summers.

Willow: Speaking of,Spike...She know you're alive. She asked around, a lot. Kicked in many doors. Said she had to make sure. (Spike smiles). So don't worry, I'll tell her you were a great leader. A true champion. I'll paint quite the picture.

Spike: Will...Let's keep this between us. This was OUR thing.

They hug

I like it! It explains a bit on why their reunion was so frosty. Buffy still cares, she was just hurt. I love that she made sure.

 

[zobothehobo]

AWWWWWWW!!!! God I love Spike! I wanna give him a hug!!!! Now I'm so glad I decided to watch FFL tonight to get a Spike fix, 'cause I really need one. I'm bursting in happiness and and and and and... just... oh god. I love Spikey. That is all. I love my Spikey.

 

[PrettyLilGirl]

is the Spike series out? how can i find it online? 🙂

 

[Tranquillity]

No, not until August.

Buffy digital comic to be part of Dark Horse retailer exclusive. It will be 8 pages long and out in August, so I am assuming some tie-in with Season 9.

From July through September, Dark Horse will be running a digital promotion, where they will give retailers codes to pass onto customers who can use it to unlock free 8 page digital comics. This is to encourage people to keep visiting their comic book stores even if they make the complete switch to digital.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/26595

 

[Litheran]

So I realized something today; and I can't believe it's managed to elude me this long.

Buffy didn't love Spike.

😱

I just so happened to read a post where a Bangel insisted that Buffy didn't love Spike in the romantic sense; she only had lusty thoughts for him. And that whole gut wrenching hand burning love declaration was her pitying him.

Angel is her truesies best luv 4ever and Spike is lame and leather coats are for losers.

And it just hit me; their right...the first couple of thousand times they flung this from their face holes it didn't quite click in my head. Now I see the light; I'm officially a Bangel and I will no longer be seeing you anymore my former comrades. I'm off to the store to buy lifts and some of that nancy-boy hair gel.

To the Bangel-mobile; AWAY!








😀

This post was brought to you by the "We get it Bangel beast; you can stick your head back in the sand and pretend Twilight didn't happen now." faction of the Spuffy fan base...so all of us.

 

[zobothehobo]

Oh dear lord. I thought you were serious and I legit started to cry for a sec. This goes out to every single Back Stepper... PLEASE DON'T LEAVE US, EVER!

 

[Litheran]

Never fear; the Spuffy foundation in my heart is built from stronger stuff than those Bangels have ever seen. You see when a love grows it finds it's way to into every part of you; and that's what Spuffy is. Those nutters on the other side read so many bad stories growing up they think love should just happen.

But I say to you that a love not earned, not seized, not clawed for nor yearned for; that is the lesser love.

So no worries about me ever going over to the other side. Spuffy is built out of the strongest things imaginable; trust, passion, and time.

And it's all covered in a fine sheen of Angel's hair gel to give it that apocalypse strong hold.

😎

 

[nmcil12]

Interestingly, Spike's smile is mentioned in the script - he "smiles kindly":

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/52.jpg

But onscreen there is more than kindness in his smile - there is challenge, irony, detachment. Spike's smile is as mysterious as Buffy's final smile when she says his name in the end.

His expression, which is to me one of the most emotionally powerful images of the entire series. Everyone will have their own response and interpretation but for me it is an expression of great sorrow and resignation - a moment of truth for Spike as he saw his last moments with this woman whom he gave his his heart and soul and mind to.

I never would think of this as a scene where the actors or the writer would think of in anyway as a joke in as humor. To me its every bit as emotionally significant to the character as the parting scene in IWRY - the same tragic and extremely painful sense of loss for Spike as it was for Buffy. Where Buffy rails against the injustice of her life and love, Spike accepts life as he sees it.

Plus as a metaphor of the spiritual transcendence, it is Spike reaching a level of understanding and acceptance as in the state of Nirvana and the spiritual ecstasy which ends his life in Sunnydale.

To me the kissing scene, while played as both light comedy and drama, when he sees Buffy go on automatic mode kissing Angel is very much connected to his response. When you love someone and you have lived through the last days that he lived with Buffy - that would have been the time that for her to say those words.

So - this scene never suggested any sense other than Spike in great sorrow.

This was, IMO, foreshadow long before by Cassie/Cassandra when she speaks to Spike:
CASSIE: She'll tell you. Someday she'll tell you.

We know that Joss Whedon's intent was that these two people do love each other - but the seer Cassandra tells truths which are never believed.

 

[Litheran]

So over in the Jumping Ship thread it looks like there's a few people who have lost the love for Spuffy.

Please let us bow our heads and remember our former back-steppers with fondness and reverence.

Great goddess in all your wisdom; you have decided to turn some of our brothers and sisters away from the light. We know not why you do this; perhaps because Spuffy is at it's best when it's the underdog; when it is shared in private; lest the world infringe upon it's glory. Perhaps the Spuffy was not in their heart; only in their mind. For whatever reason we send out a hopeful prayer that they will find their way through the storm; and that if they switch to Bangel; that they'll know better than to poke fun at "how silly they were for ever being a Spuffy"

For I would hate to go nuclear on their ass.

 

[nmcil12]

I can see jumping off the ship entirely - making the choice to not be devoted to the Spuffy Ship - but changing your ship to go on board the Bangel. This is something that is very difficult for me to even begin to understand. It is exactly the opposite for me - the more I connect with the series and the comic books, the more that my respect and admiration I have for the Buffy-Spike transformation journey.

 

[Litheran]

Yeah, I don't like to be a judgmental pr*ck; but just knowing what I feel for the characters of Spike and Buffy. If you can be swayed to the other side or simply off the ship altogether; you were never really a Spuffy in my mind. I say in my mind obviously because I don't have the right to define someone else or their choices. But I simply cannot believe that anyone in the entire Slayer-verse would ever love Buffy better or would make her happier than Spike. That's what being a Spuffy is to me.