Spuffy #7 - General Discussion

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I want to talk about S9.

Based on what we've seen so far from the panels, and what Allie and other writers have said; do you believe that Joss is just "teasing" us, or ship-baiting us, or do you think he's actually legitimitly planning to bring Spike and Buffy back together? Or at least acknowedge that they still have feelings for one and other? Do you think in the end he'll have Buffy "choose"? Allie said what happens between Buffy and Spike is "worth waiting for." What do you think he meant by this?

I can't help but think that Joss knows what he's been doing all along. I think we're in for a big, big surprise. He knows the fanbase hasn't forgotten about Spike/Buffy. He's used Angel/Buffy as a means to an end - I think it'll be up to Spike/Buffy to pick up the pieces.

Thoughts?
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
I want to talk about S9.

Based on what we've seen so far from the panels, and what Allie and other writers have said; do you believe that Joss is just "teasing" us, or ship-baiting us, or do you think he's actually legitimitly planning to bring Spike and Buffy back together? Or at least acknowedge that they still have feelings for one and other? Do you think in the end he'll have Buffy "choose"? Allie said what happens between Buffy and Spike is "worth waiting for." What do you think he meant by this?

I can't help but think that Joss knows what he's been doing all along. I think we're in for a big, big surprise. He knows the fanbase hasn't forgotten about Spike/Buffy. He's used Angel/Buffy as a means to an end - I think it'll be up to Spike/Buffy to pick up the pieces.

Thoughts?
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Oh lord, I hope he's not teasing us. That would hurt me too much. 🙁

I do think that the issue of the feelings that they still have for each other will have to come up one way or another. It's not really like either of the characters to not let SOMETHING slip at SOME point.

I'm not sure whether I want Joss to have Buffy choose. Because if she chose Angel I would feel ridiculously bad for Spike. Losing his woman to Angel . . . again.

All I know for sure is that every single time I read that Allie said that what happens is "worth waiting for" I get all giddy and a big dumb grin is plastered on my face for like five minutes. Then I get worried that I will be let down. But then I'm happy again.

I'm sort of like Spike I guess. I'll take ANY CRUMB that Spuffy will work out. And I'll be happy.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
I want to talk about S9.

Based on what we've seen so far from the panels, and what Allie and other writers have said; do you believe that Joss is just "teasing" us, or ship-baiting us, or do you think he's actually legitimitly planning to bring Spike and Buffy back together? Or at least acknowedge that they still have feelings for one and other? Do you think in the end he'll have Buffy "choose"? Allie said what happens between Buffy and Spike is "worth waiting for." What do you think he meant by this?

I can't help but think that Joss knows what he's been doing all along. I think we're in for a big, big surprise. He knows the fanbase hasn't forgotten about Spike/Buffy. He's used Angel/Buffy as a means to an end - I think it'll be up to Spike/Buffy to pick up the pieces.

Thoughts?
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I don't know. I hope so, but...??? I know that on the commentary for Chosen, he said that Angel had to be in the last episode because, something like: most people want them to be together. I don't know if he's shown that he knows that that is not actually the case, or, since he said it sarcastically a bit, was actually joking.
After how they have written Spike, I don't see how they can be true to Buffy (as a person) and have her end up with Angel, though, she could end up with someone else. There should be some resolution given to Spuffy. What he did for her was unprecidented and shows that he is definitely worthy of her, but I don't know that Joss or anyone else is wanting to have any type of happy relationships for too long. I'm still surprised at the end of S8 and the Spuffy interactions (or, rather, lack of dialogue).

I really, really want something substantial- some real talk between the two of them about everything - picking up from "let's go be heroes."
 
This doesn't really relate to what we've been talking about, sorry...but I have a theory (it must be bunnies) about the whole soul thing...

It's puzzled me with spike...he's obviously able to think o others, to show kindness, compassion, love, patience, remorse, etc... Before he gets his soul....so what is the soul really and why does it make such a big difference to Buffy if he does or doesn't have it...

So here's what I think...ultimately it's about motivation. Yes he's capable of all these things without a soul (he catches the blade of the sword when those knights attack the van when they're running from glory, he risks his life to help dawn get those demon eggs so she can do the bringing her mom back to life spell, he encourages Tara to play peekaboo with the sun....he takes care of dawn etc...

He does all these good things...but the bottom line is, he does them for buffy...

I think having a soul let's him see beyond that and his motivation changes to wanting to do right for it's own sake or for the betterment of mankind in general.

I hope this makes some sense...I'm writing it from my phone in between clients so it may be a little disjointed...

It's just that I'd been wrestling with the question of what is the soul, according to joss,

When someone like Warren can be souled and act as he does and spike can be without and act as he does...

And I think for spike the difference isn't in what he'll do, its why...

And I think that makes all the difference to Buffy.

Hope this made sense.
 
[MENTION=11292]kittenpoker[/MENTION]

I think you are right about how his reasons for doing good change, and that is the main difference between having a soul and not having one. For him at least.

He also recognizes that what he did in the past was bad and feels remorse over it. Which he didn't before the soul.

I think Buffy's issue is that she didn't want to be responsible for being Spike's moral compass. She wanted him to be able to do that on his own.

But also, Spike has always been different. Too much of William stayed inside of him for some reason. He's always been completely motivated by emotion. Which is one of the main reasons that I heart him! 🙂
 
wickedtiger86 said:
But also, Spike has always been different. Too much of William stayed inside of him for some reason. He's always been completely motivated by emotion. Which is one of the main reasons that I heart him! 🙂
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I have a theory about that. it occured to me that that "for some reason" is simply who William was. He felt SO much. He was so in love with Cecily that he died when she rejected him. Because of that... how much he felt, how hard he loved, Spike felt too, Spike loved too. William felt harder and more than Spike (if that's possible). So Spike kept proportionatly the same ammount of affection and emotion as everyone else, it was just all greater.

I don't know if that makes sense, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
zobothehobo said:
I have a theory about that. it occured to me that that "for some reason" is simply who William was. He felt SO much. He was so in love with Cecily that he died when she rejected him. Because of that... how much he felt, how hard he loved, Spike felt too, Spike loved too. William felt harder and more than Spike (if that's possible). So Spike kept proportionatly the same ammount of affection and emotion as everyone else, it was just all greater.

I don't know if that makes sense, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Ooh! It makes perfect sense! It also explains all the other vamps that had a lot of humanity.

Kinda makes me wonder what I'd be like if I got vamped. . . I'd probably be like that first vamp that the Judge burned up. Have books all over the place . . .
 
zobothehobo said:
I have a theory about that. it occured to me that that "for some reason" is simply who William was. He felt SO much. He was so in love with Cecily that he died when she rejected him. Because of that... how much he felt, how hard he loved, Spike felt too, Spike loved too. William felt harder and more than Spike (if that's possible). So Spike kept proportionatly the same ammount of affection and emotion as everyone else, it was just all greater.

I don't know if that makes sense, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Oh, I love this!! It makes complete sense!

Off topic, but now I'm wondering if willow was the way she was as a vamp because she had a lot of pent up anger at being pushed around or not really appreciated...

Maybe if she were to have been turned after she started to really find and use her voice, her vampire self would have been different.

Ok, sorry for that detour.

Back in track now.
 
Z
zobothehobo
I think she was
I was at the Joss Whedon panel at SDCC today and someone asked about Spike's role in Season 9. Joss said that he'll be a big part of Buffy's life and then said that putting those two (Buffy and Spike) in a room together is always awesome, and joked that he wouldn't say which kind of room...😀

I'm kicking myself for missing the opportunity to take a video of that answer! But that answer made me giddy all the way throughout the panel! Soooo excited for Season 9. I love the prospects for Spuffy. Even just a friendship would make me REALLY happy!!
 
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Z
zobothehobo
KLJKLSDJFKL:DSJFKLJ YAY~!
Miss Kitty
Miss Kitty
Awww ! ♥
S
StarSlayer
GAH!!!! :D
I think that one of the real problems with the soul theme is that it was a very good and effective plot device for the Angel/Angelus arc but that it totally falls apart when it begins to be applied as the definitive separation of Good vs Evil when applied to vampires, demons and humans. Even aside from the obvious truth that a soul does not in any way contribute to a human being automatically Good, when you start bringing in some of the elements of Spike and Clem, it breaks down even more. The logic of Angel and this soul as the separation of Angel vs Angelus is on extremely shakey ground and by the time that we get to Spike taking on the torture of Glory for Buffy and Dawn, the logical formula, IMO, is completely put in jeopardy. Spike should not, by the formula that Buffy, Giles and the Scoobs insists is applied to Angel, ever have been capable of that kind of action and choice.

But, I don't want to derail the topic - I do believe that the Spuffy relationship needs to have attention paid to it in BS9 - for good or for bad for the Spuffy fans. I would love to see a very significant development for Spike; a definitive statement about where Spike is now in his moral, intellectual and emotional status. I would love to have him become accepted as a full equal by Buffy and for her to acknowledge that he is no longer in anyway someone who cannot measure to the same high degree of respect that she once had for Angel.

I know one thing for sure, that if there is any story that even hints of a return to Buffy loving Angel and needing him post the events of BS8 - I will no longer be a Buffyverse fan. It's Joss Whedon's story to tell, and he can tell it anyway he wants, but I will never accept that this relationship is to be seen as a good one or a great statement of love. There would have to be such a huge refit of BS8 and all the crap that the Twilight arc presented in its treatment of Buffy and women and innocent people that it would be very hard for me to accept. The events of BS8, IMVHO, demand that there be some harsh consequences for the character. Of course, not all fans see it this way, but I most certainly do.
 
nmcil12 said:
I know one thing for sure, that if there is any story that even hints of a return to Buffy loving Angel and needing him post the events of BS8 - I will no longer be a Buffyverse fan. It's Joss Whedon's story to tell, and he can tell it anyway he wants, but I will never accept that this relationship is to be seen as a good one or a great statement of love. There would have to be such a huge refit of BS8 and all the crap that the Twilight arc presented in its treatment of Buffy and women and innocent people that it would be very hard for me to accept. The events of BS8, IMVHO, demand that there be some harsh consequences for the character. Of course, not all fans see it this way, but I most certainly do.
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There was a Scott Allie interview linked on Whedonesque the other day that had this quote:

In terms of the cross-overs, possibly reuniting Angel and Buffy, Allie was pretty clear:

"No we're going to keep them apart; after everything that went down between them, they're going to stay apart from each other. There is going to be a sense of cross-over between the two books, and there will be other books that will bridge that gap. With the destruction of the Seed, and other destruction that happened at the end of season 8, there's a lot of repercussions that are going to affect everybody in the world, particularly characters involved in magic and supernatural things."
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http://www.whedonverse.net/events/c...llie-talks-new-projects-buffyverse-in-comics/

---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 PM ----------

Oh, and I forgot to add that at the panel Scott Allie started it off and had some info on the upcoming eight page Spike online comic written by Jane Espenson. It'll be available starting August (I'm assuming August 1) as a free digital download if you go into your local comic book store and ask for a special code to get it from the Dark Horse digital store. Hopefully it'll be awesome, what with the Jane Espenson-ness and all. 😀
 
nmcil12 said:
I think that one of the real problems with the soul theme is that it was a very good and effective plot device for the Angel/Angelus arc but that it totally falls apart when it begins to be applied as the definitive separation of Good vs Evil when applied to vampires, demons and humans. Even aside from the obvious truth that a soul does not in any way contribute to a human being automatically Good, when you start bringing in some of the elements of Spike and Clem, it breaks down even more. The logic of Angel and this soul as the separation of Angel vs Angelus is on extremely shakey ground and by the time that we get to Spike taking on the torture of Glory for Buffy and Dawn, the logical formula, IMO, is completely put in jeopardy. Spike should not, by the formula that Buffy, Giles and the Scoobs insists is applied to Angel, ever have been capable of that kind of action and choice.
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I'm sorry to keep on about this! really if anyone is annoyed...sorry...

and I wanted to respond to this, but I didn't read the rest (I'm trying to be careful here) cause I haven't read season 8 or 9 (just read the first 2 comics of 8 so far) and I don't want to know what's going to happen...

tricky navigating...

But, I did want to say, on the soul thing...

I think, that's the thing, these things are totally selfless right, and one would think would not be possible without a soul...

But spike, because of his unique ability to love so passionately, managed to be selfless without a soul... everything he did, prior to falling in love with buffy, he did for dru... his whole mission in life was about getting her strong again...

so, he could withstand torture, sacrifice of himself, even his life, for the person he loved...

but with a soul, I think he could do it for different reasons...

(I'm thinking)
 
P
prophecygrrl
I approve of the "playing" :D :D
Miss Kitty
Miss Kitty
♥ ♥ ♥
Moscow Watcher
Moscow Watcher
Yay! ♥
Great news!

I just want to add that Joss' panel can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSZaMg9tksk&feature=youtu.be
and the Spike part starts at 15.10

while Andrew Chambliss interview is here

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2HvlQinbWw&feature=player_embedded"]‪Buffyfest Interviews Andrew Chambliss & Georges Jeanty - SDCC 2011‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]
Chambliss speaks about Spike starting from 13.35
 
Ooh... and then "he is love's bitch afterall..."

They better not tease us & then let us down!
 
wickedtiger86
wickedtiger86
Right? The unhappiness might kill me! P.S. I am severly overdramatic.
When Spike/Buffy and "play" are used in conjunction with each other, I pretty much die of happy.
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🙂 And then, over the weekend Joss did say he loved putting Buffy and Spike in a room together, though he wouldn't specify which room...

(**I know I read that somewhere yesterday but can't seem to find it... perhaps it was somewhere in here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSZaMg9tksk&feature=youtu.be)
 
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
Thanks for that info :)
zobothehobo said:
I have a theory about that. it occured to me that that "for some reason" is simply who William was. He felt SO much. He was so in love with Cecily that he died when she rejected him. Because of that... how much he felt, how hard he loved, Spike felt too, Spike loved too. William felt harder and more than Spike (if that's possible). So Spike kept proportionatly the same ammount of affection and emotion as everyone else, it was just all greater.

I don't know if that makes sense, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Click to expand...

I like that theory! It makes perfectly sense.
 
Hello Spuffies!

I'm been a Spuffy since Buffy V. Dracula in season 5 but had loved the interaction between them ever since 2. So, I'm very excited by what Joss said at SDCC.
 
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
Welcome to the back steps!
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