Nah, I'm a Spuffy, and even I can admit that was a damn good scene. It was beautifully filmed and very subtly erotic. Spuffy's scenes are always very blatant. Bangel's sex scenes were always about being "classy" - the scene in 'Innocence', 'I Will Remember You' , and the one in 'Graduation Day.'
I've always heard about how sensual and erotic the scene was in "Graduation Day Pt 2" where Angel feeds on Buffy, and I've never seen anything but a frightened teenager suddenly realizing that what she had originally thought of as a noble gesture was, in effect, quite possibly a suicidal act. I saw pain, and fear, and possibly the beginnings of that death wish that Spike later said that all Slayers have.
The other two times that Buffy was bitten, "Prophecy Girl" in Season 1 and "Buffy Vs Dracula in Season 5, her expression when bitten was exactly the same as when Angel bit her. Are we supposed to see those as sensual, erotic experiences as well? I guess I'm just blind, because all that I see when Angel feeds on Buffy is a Slayer having a near death experience.
I believe completely that Buffy loved Angel, and I've never said otherwise, but being darn near killed is neither sensual nor erotic, whether a bat faced vampire, the Prince of Darkness, or her first lover performs the act.
I'm probably biased from having read the southern vampire books before I ever watched buffy. I probably superimposed my impressions from those onto buffy during the bite scenes.
Joan the Vampire SlayerWell, we're all affected by what we've read and seen before, it's perfectly natural.
I'm probably biased from having read the southern vampire books before I ever watched buffy. I probably superimposed my impressions from those onto buffy during the bite scenes.
Not necessarily. Lots of people see that scene as just a short step down from sheer toe curling, biting and clawing, bucking like a wild bronco sex. I'm just not one of them. I guess it just gets down to what kind of perspective you view the scene from.
together, but I always just saw Harry as this total loner. Not like when it came to friends and stuff, just with romance. And now that you mentioned it, I'm kind of liking Buffy the loner. It's one way for both ships to calm down a bit. (and yesss, i'm totally a HP geek )
is definitely an EXTREMELY tough girl (in fact, a lot of us think she's kinda a mary sue) and a good match for Harry. I never really viewed Harry as a loner though. The relationships he had always seemed to more or less work out, and he barely ever went on "solo missions". He and his friends ALWAYS had a close bond (well... except for those couple of times when they didn't 😀 ) and he seemed to only ever have strong feelings for one girl. Like, if the battle had continued and he was still fightin' the good fight then I definitely would have agreed with you, but as it is it seems like the battle is done and it's time for him to relax with his friends and love. 😀
You know what's sad? I totally just forgot that libraries still exist. D: WOW. I buy all of my books so I guess thats why it didn't occur to me, but still...pretty sad. xD But yeahh, thats a good idea. Thank goodness for those library card keychains or else I'd never find that card. I'll stop Tuesday (since they're closed tomorrow) before class and keep you updated on my thoughts. Who knows? Maybe I'll even learn to appreciate, and perhaps even grow to like, Cangel.
Haha yeah, I generally hate libraries. But I LOVE book stores. Probably because book stores have a larger and more refined collection that's easier to find. I always get lost in libraries. 😉 And although you may not like Cordy and Angel together, Cangel is one of those ships that's impossible not to fall in love with. 🙂
Yeahh, my friend told me those seasons were pretty rough. She actually said she didn't even hold her interest for the rest of season 4. But I'll be positive. Maybe it won't be too terrible. xD
Yep, that's true. Although there are some EXTREMELY interesting and integral plot twists that you definitely need to see, so those will be fun. 🙂 But generally, both seasons are just all over the place. They're like poison dart frogs. xD
I know, right?? I had that favorited on youtube and one day it was gone. My heart sank. Stupid youtube and their copyrights. >.< That was the reason my Bangel video was deleted. >.<
Gah, yes! Youtube is so annoying. There are some songs that you literally can't find there because of the copyright. If they keep it up, nobody's going to be browsing THERE.
Wow, Joss said that? That actually surprises me. I always got "I don't particularly care for Bangel, I just do it for fan service" kind of vibe from him. Especially when he said Parker was the most important relationship of her life. As hard as I try, I can't understand why. But there is this new rumor, especially regarding the new major plot twist in the comic series that
Bangel are finally getting their happy ending, as vauge as that sounds.
I just blocked that off in case it's true, as far as I know it's just a rumor.
He did. But it may have been something he said earlier in the Series, like S2 or S3, before Briley or Spuffy were ever thought up. As for the comics, I agree with Becky. Although I am SO hoping Buffy will go out alone. xD
Interesting! I did always like his speech, too, although I wasn't a fan of Riley at all. I can relate to it as I'm sure everyone can in some way. I, too, wouldn't leave a current boyfriend/husband for an ex. And I don't see either of those characters doing the same. I can accept that Buffy and Angel will always love one another. If they never actually get together in the end, I can deal. As long as the love is there, I'm good.
Yeah, I never really liked Riley either. But he was kinda funny sometimes. Like, in S5 when he's like "yeah, a lot of kids nowadays are experimenting with shortness. Gotta nip that in the bud." In S4 I just find him to be plain annoying. But in S5 it's kinda like he's family. Although it never seemed like he was dating Buffy. Rebound was more like it. xD
As for the speech... Probably the best part of the whole episode. That episode just really sucked. The Mary- Sue wife, Spike being the Doctor, Buffy callin Spike "William". Grr. Douglas Petrie REALLY doesn't understand Spuffy (Doug was the writer and director).
Oh goodness, me too! Buffy &
Xander
have such this great friendship. I always love how they kept it from going any farther than that. They just don't suit each other in that way.
Exactly. 🙂 Like, it reminds me of all those times Anya is like
"but you can't have Xander!"
And then Buffy says, "I'll try to keep that in mind." Apparentally once Anya died she didn't keep it in mind enough. x)
Haha, I'm going to take that as a compliment. xD Different is good. I like to think I'm not as aggressive as some that I, myself, have come in contact with. I'm open to all interpretations and perceptions. Oh yeah, I've met Becky! She was the first to greet me on the boards. I'll take the fact that I sound like her as a compliment, too.
Lol yeah, that was a compliment. 😀 If you continue that quote it would be like "you're... different from them. They didn't seem to know-" "What they were talking about." "I think if they saw a real (Bangeler) they'd run the other way!" "How long have you been (shipping)?" "Always, I mean, since I um, was little... my, my mom used to, She um, she had a lot of (arguments), like you." "Oh I'm not.. I don't have much in the way of (arguments)." "Really, I mean most of my (support statements) come out (blah, blah, blah 😀 ).
Besides... (quotes) going awry, friends in (uncertainty)...
I'm definitely nothing special." "No, you are."
Well that was fun. xD Hush was such an amazing episode, especially with that beautiful Tillow conversation I just quoted above.
You were a super young Buffy fan, too? I started watching the show when I was 7, a few months after it started airing. I came in on season 2. Other kids our age had Nickelodeon, we had Buffy. I'd say we win. xD
Yep. 😀 I didn't really like it until a few months later though. When I first saw it, it scared me half to death. Mostly because the episode was Ted, and they were right at the point when the scoobies were discovering the dead wives in the closet. I led a sheltered life. xD
It's always nice to see old characters from the beginning that have since left, come back. I mean, Angel was the only one in the series finale but I LOVED that scene in "Lessons" where all of the big bads from every season came back for 10 seconds of screen time. So. Excellent. And I don't know about you, but I was uber impressed that Mark Metcalf (The Master) and George Hertzberg (Adam) came back, got put under possibly 5+ hours of make-up for 10 seconds of screen time. If that's not dedication, I don't know what is. xD
Yeah, that was fantastic. 😀 Also, I loved what the dialogue was. The "you still don't get do you? It's not about right. It's not about wrong. It's about power." That's like my all time favorite quote. Because that's what Buffy and Angel really were about. Who has the power, and how you get the power. And it's so true. "Right" and "wrong" are pretty meaningless words. Nothing is black and white, ever. One person could say a slayer is good. I could say she's evil for protecting mankind, the most evil species to ever live. Another person could say mankind is good. There is no way to define anything as anything, because all is from perspective. I personally think that killing ants and other insects for fun, or simply nonchalantly, is incredibly wrong. The same for murdering other species and EATING THEM. I find it cruel and rather disgusting. But I'm sure many others could care less. But if it was my opinion, then the slayer would be evil for saving mankind, which will probably eventually wipe out every other living species. I might say the demons are good for keeping populations down. But it doesn't matter. Like with the Angel S5
circle of the blackthorn
. It didn't matter what the result would be. All that matters is control. Like, with Willow in S6. It wasn't a magic addiction she had; It was a power addiction. The magic gave her power. It wasn't about what occured with that power, but rather that she could use it to beneficial outcomes. Beneficial to who's favor is the question.
ANYWAY, that's enough, seeing as I had no actual point. xD Sorry, I get into rants of absolutely nothing occasionally.
Very true. No ship is perfect. I like what you said about part of loving a ship is accepting it's faults. I'm 100% with you on that.
Haha I wish I knew some never-been-used Bangel arguments, but I can pretty much guarantee that every single one of them has been used at some point.
Haha yeah. 😀 There's only so much material out there.
That scene in GD pt. 2 was pretty dark yes, but...I liked it. Like not in a creepy "Oh! Biting!" way, but in a "Buffy is willing to potentially give her life for the man she loves" kind of way. But you're not crazy, you're not the only one with issues with that scene. Sometimes it's even hard for me to watch even though I know she lives through it, I still always have that thought like he's actually going to kill her this time watching it. xD
Yeah I'm not really sure why it disturbs me so much... It just seemed so odd, to see this little girl being bitten by a starving, crazed vampire, in slow motion, and actually enjoying it. xD
Oh, and I checked out your thread ("The Age Difference"). I know it's going to sound strange, but the age difference between Bangel has never bothered me. Angel was turned at the age of 26, so I've always really thought of it that way even though he's technically over 200 years old. Not saying 15 and 26 is such a great thing either. After thinking about it, it really should've bothered me. xD So I suppose he would be breaking the law anyway, like you mentioned in your thread. So Bangel was at one time legally unacceptable even if you took away the vampire years? Of course it was. xD
Yeah, I didn't really notice it until a few years later either. 🙂 And it wasn't even the age difference as much as Buffy was barely older than 14, barely a non- adolescent, when Angel "fell in love with her". I find 14/ 15 year old girls with 26 year old guys quite not good. xD Like, I've read many books on relationships, and they all say dating an older guy is something that absolutely should NOT be done, because they're on different levels of life then you, and you WILL end up hurt. And, technically, Buffy was hurt. Many many times. Plus, you know, statutory rape... xD
hahaha, I dont' really think we're debating about anything anymore. I think we've changed into a POV discussion on things. Because you're right, it's obvious that both respective couples loved each other and that both, at least we've come to agree upon, are equal. I can deal with that. xD
Yeah, I'd say you're correct. I've completely abandoned my "debate voice", and it seems now I'm just chatting you guys up about random topics. 😀 But anyway. I'm sure that Becky's quotes have proved our point about whether or not S7 Spuffy is a friendship or an (almost) relationship... so yeah.
I've always heard about how sensual and erotic the scene was in "Graduation Day Pt 2" where Angel feeds on Buffy, and I've never seen anything but a frightened teenager suddenly realizing that what she had originally thought of as a noble gesture was, in effect, quite possibly a suicidal act. I saw pain, and fear, and possibly the beginnings of that death wish that Spike later said that all Slayers have.
The other two times that Buffy was bitten, "Prophecy Girl" in Season 1 and "Buffy Vs Dracula in Season 5, her expression when bitten was exactly the same as when Angel bit her. Are we supposed to see those as sensual, erotic experiences as well? I guess I'm just blind, because all that I see when Angel feeds on Buffy is a Slayer having a near death experience.
I believe completely that Buffy loved Angel, and I've never said otherwise, but being darn near killed is neither sensual nor erotic, whether a bat faced vampire, the Prince of Darkness, or her first lover performs the act.
I say the Spuffy of Season 7 is both. They are friends, but there's also love there. As she tells Angel, he's in her heart and not just in a friend way. The looks they share, the loyalty they have... it's certainly friendship and almost just as certainly love.
You know, maybe I need to rewatch because I can't remember. I honestly don't think it happened. I'm pretty sure I once came up with a thread about the fact that Angel is supposed to be Buffy's romantic past and yet he gets more than Spike in Season 7. Because we see a lack of romantic intimacy between the two there is a lot of ambiguity as to whether they were anything other than friends. Personally I think the hints are deafening but that's just me.
Well, it showed Buffy coming down the stairs and getting closer and closer to Spike, then Spike seemingly ready to embrace her, then later you find them sleeping in bed together. What else would they do to pass the time? 🙂
In the voiceover of the "Chosen" fade to black scene, Joss said that he intentionally left it ambivalent so that, basically, the fans could fill in the blanks however they wanted to. Did they make love? Did they just spend the knight holding each other? Talking about their mothers? Planning strategy? Watching some of Andrew's old "Star Trek" tapes? Decide for yourself.
As for me, I think that they spent quite a bit of their time making plans for a future together. By that time, Buffy pretty well knew what the consequences of Willow's spell would be. There would be an army of very powerful, very confused, and most likely very frightened girls who would have to be located, organized, trained, and forged into an army such as the world had never seen. The task would be, to say the very least, monumental. Buffy would need all of the help that she could get, and most of all, she would need someone whose loyalty was unquestionable, and whose trust knew no bounds. Someone who would always have her back, no matter what the odds, no matter what the danger. Spike was the only one who completely fit that description. The idea that he would not always be there was beyond consideration.
And then they spent the rest of the night going at it like rabbits, making so much racket that they kept everybody else in the house awake all night.
I totally agree, Oriana. The man just didn't 'get' Spuffy at all. Petrie also wrote 'Fool for Love', though, which was just a brilliant episode.
Steven DeKnight and David Fury, though, write Spike even worse. Steven wrote 'Seeing Red' and David wrote 'Gone', both of which contained Spike doing grotesquely out-of-character things; the attempted rape and of course, the whole Doctor Thing.
DeKnight also wrote 'Dead Things.' No explanation needed, there.
See white avenger's answer. He explains it quite well:
In the voiceover of the "Chosen" fade to black scene, Joss said that he intentionally left it ambivalent so that, basically, the fans could fill in the blanks however they wanted to. Did they make love? Did they just spend the knight holding each other? Talking about their mothers? Planning strategy? Watching some of Andrew's old "Star Trek" tapes? Decide for yourself.
As for me, I think that they spent quite a bit of their time making plans for a future together. By that time, Buffy pretty well knew what the consequences of Willow's spell would be. There would be an army of very powerful, very confused, and most likely very frightened girls who would have to be located, organized, trained, and forged into an army such as the world had never seen. The task would be, to say the very least, monumental. Buffy would need all of the help that she could get, and most of all, she would need someone whose loyalty was unquestionable, and whose trust knew no bounds. Someone who would always have her back, no matter what the odds, no matter what the danger. Spike was the only one who completely fit that description. The idea that he would not always be there was beyond consideration.
And then they spent the rest of the night going at it like rabbits, making so much racket that they kept everybody else in the house awake all night.
I wouldn't say B/A are getting their happy ending. I think a lot will be revealed in the next couple issues, and I don't necessarily think the covers that were leaked are what they seem. I believe they're parodies. Many Bangels aren't happy about what's going down, actually. I'm not sure if you have been spoiled to who Twilight is. If you have, check out the threads devoted to this topic in the Season 8 forums. If you don't want to be spoiled, DON'T LOOK AT THEM!
Haha yesss, I know who Twilight is. I'm just waiting to hear how it's going to make sense. And I really don't see how people are saying Bangel are getting their happy ending with this new piece of information. If anything, it seems like the opposite will happen. 🙁
Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
lol, you think I'm aggressive? I'll try to settle down. 😉
Hell yes I was the first to greet you! I love new people joining this board. And I'm so glad you're here! You have interesting opinions.
Oh no, I wasn't saying you were! I was talking about some Bangel's I've met being too aggressive towards Spuffies. But thank youu! I really like being here. I'm sad that college has cut down my time here since it started back up again. But I'm trying! xD
ps: thank you for the Joss quotes! They were very interesting.
Wishing Oceans said:
Haha yeah, I generally hate libraries. But I LOVE book stores. Probably because book stores have a larger and more refined collection that's easier to find. I always get lost in libraries. And although you may not like Cordy and Angel together, Cangel is one of those ships that's impossible not to fall in love with.
First off, sorry this took so long to reply to. My winter break ended and school has already started to eat away my time. D: But I did find the time to pick up seasons 3-4 from the library and plan on watching them after classes today. I will definitely keep you updated on opinions and if I'm warming up to Cangel. 😀
Wishing Oceans said:
Yep, that's true. Although there are some EXTREMELY interesting and integral plot twists that you definitely need to see, so those will be fun. But generally, both seasons are just all over the place. They're like poison dart frogs. xD
Haha well I do like plot twists. 😀 The main issue I had was with one of the "Big Bad's", Jasmine. Like...wtf? I saw some episodes with her and wasn't really diggin' it. xD But maybe watching her appearance all the way through will change my mind. xD
Wishing Oceans said:
He did. But it may have been something he said earlier in the Series, like S2 or S3, before Briley or Spuffy were ever thought up. As for the comics, I agree with Becky. Although I am SO hoping Buffy will go out alone. xD
Yeahh, that definitely sounds like something he said during the Bangel years. Because obviously nowadays he's out to turn them totally against each other.
Wishing Oceans said:
Yeah, I never really liked Riley either. But he was kinda funny sometimes. Like, in S5 when he's like "yeah, a lot of kids nowadays are experimenting with shortness. Gotta nip that in the bud." In S4 I just find him to be plain annoying. But in S5 it's kinda like he's family. Although it never seemed like he was dating Buffy. Rebound was more like it. xD
As for the speech... Probably the best part of the whole episode. That episode just really sucked. The Mary- Sue wife, Spike being the Doctor, Buffy callin Spike "William". Grr. Douglas Petrie REALLY doesn't understand Spuffy (Doug was the writer and director).
I liked Riley really early in S4, like from Buffy nearly killing him with the psych book until he started realizing he liked her. I did like when he punched Parker in the face, too. Awesomeeee. But he got on my last nerve when he started trying to date her. Maybe my love of Bangel was the reason for that. 😀
I didn't like "As You Were" either. The speech really was the only good part about it. His wife annoyed me, and Spike being the "Doctor" was the most random plot line I've ever heard. Like what was the point of that besides having a reason for Riley to come back?
Lol yeah, that was a compliment. If you continue that quote it would be like "you're... different from them. They didn't seem to know-" "What they were talking about." "I think if they saw a real (Bangeler) they'd run the other way!" "How long have you been (shipping)?" "Always, I mean, since I um, was little... my, my mom used to, She um, she had a lot of (arguments), like you." "Oh I'm not.. I don't have much in the way of (arguments)." "Really, I mean most of my (support statements) come out (blah, blah, blah ).
Besides... (quotes) going awry, friends in (uncertainty)...
I'm definitely nothing special." "No, you are."
Well that was fun. xD Hush was such an amazing episode, especially with that beautiful Tillow conversation I just quoted above.[/QUOTE]
Awh I love that moment between them, too. 🙂 I never understood all the hate for Tillow. They were cute.
Wishing Oceans said:
Yep. I didn't really like it until a few months later though. When I first saw it, it scared me half to death. Mostly because the episode was Ted, and they were right at the point when the scoobies were discovering the dead wives in the closet. I led a sheltered life. xD
Haha don't feel bad. Angelus terrified me when I was a kid. He was just a bit more vicious than the other vampires. 😀
Wishing Oceans said:
Yeah, that was fantastic. Also, I loved what the dialogue was. The "you still don't get do you? It's not about right. It's not about wrong. It's about power." That's like my all time favorite quote. Because that's what Buffy and Angel really were about. Who has the power, and how you get the power. And it's so true. "Right" and "wrong" are pretty meaningless words. Nothing is black and white, ever. One person could say a slayer is good. I could say she's evil for protecting mankind, the most evil species to ever live. Another person could say mankind is good. There is no way to define anything as anything, because all is from perspective. I personally think that killing ants and other insects for fun, or simply nonchalantly, is incredibly wrong. The same for murdering other species and EATING THEM. I find it cruel and rather disgusting. But I'm sure many others could care less. But if it was my opinion, then the slayer would be evil for saving mankind, which will probably eventually wipe out every other living species. I might say the demons are good for keeping populations down. But it doesn't matter. Like with the Angel S5 Spoiler - Highlight to view: circle of the blackthorn . It didn't matter what the result would be. All that matters is control. Like, with Willow in S6. It wasn't a magic addiction she had; It was a power addiction. The magic gave her power. It wasn't about what occured with that power, but rather that she could use it to beneficial outcomes. Beneficial to who's favor is the question.
ANYWAY, that's enough, seeing as I had no actual point. xD Sorry, I get into rants of absolutely nothing occasionally.
Wow, I really like how you explained all of that. I never even thought of it that way. Power was definitely a recurring theme in BtVS and who has the most of it. I did always like that quote from "Lessons", but never thought so deeply into it. So thank you for putting it into an entire different perspective for me.
Wishing Oceans said:
Yeah I'm not really sure why it disturbs me so much... It just seemed so odd, to see this little girl being bitten by a starving, crazed vampire, in slow motion, and actually enjoying it. xD
Well, perhaps at first she was enjoying it. Cause I guess that sort of thing was erotic to her. However, to me, she started to look terrified at the end of it (after she kicks the table) like, "Why isn't he stopping? I'm going to die." I always thought that was why she didn't push him off of her, because he drained too much and it made her weak.
Wishing Oceans said:
Like, I've read many books on relationships, and they all say dating an older guy is something that absolutely should NOT be done, because they're on different levels of life then you, and you WILL end up hurt. And, technically, Buffy was hurt. Many many times. Plus, you know, statutory rape... xD
That's very true which is possibly why Bangel didn't work out. When she started up with Spike, she was older and more mature.
Wishing Oceans said:
Yeah, I'd say you're correct. I've completely abandoned my "debate voice", and it seems now I'm just chatting you guys up about random topics. But anyway. I'm sure that Becky's quotes have proved our point about whether or not S7 Spuffy is a friendship or an (almost) relationship... so yeah.
Haha yesss, I know who Twilight is. I'm just waiting to hear how it's going to make sense. And I really don't see how people are saying Bangel are getting their happy ending with this new piece of information. If anything, it seems like the opposite will happen.
I dunno, now that he's back, the only thing on Buffy's mind is probably "ANGEL ANGEL ANGEL". Hopefully not. But Joss must've chosen Angel for a reason. x)
Oh no, I wasn't saying you were! I was talking about some Bangel's I've met being too aggressive towards Spuffies. But thank youu! I really like being here. I'm sad that college has cut down my time here since it started back up again. But I'm trying! xD
Don't worry, we all understand. 🙂 School can really suck... but we all miss you Megan dear! 😀
First off, sorry this took so long to reply to. My winter break ended and school has already started to eat away my time. D: But I did find the time to pick up seasons 3-4 from the library and plan on watching them after classes today. I will definitely keep you updated on opinions and if I'm warming up to Cangel.
I'm sure you will. 🙂 It's a bit slow at first, but Cangel really is a beautiful relationship.
Haha well I do like plot twists. The main issue I had was with one of the "Big Bad's", Jasmine. Like...wtf? I saw some episodes with her and wasn't really diggin' it. xD But maybe watching her appearance all the way through will change my mind. xD
Oh, my gosh, yes! xD Jasmine is one of those characters that you either love or hate. I happen to hate her. Luckily, she only lasts for like three episodes. 😀
Yeahh, that definitely sounds like something he said during the Bangel years. Because obviously nowadays he's out to turn them totally against each other.
Maybe, or maybe it's one big conspiracy that will end in hugs and kisses. 😀
Which brings me to another point. One of the reasons I don't like Bangel: It's all about the kissing. xD And I probably sound kinda crazyy but it just was too much... Like, all their "intimate" times were spent kissing. It was kiss, kiss, kiss and more k-i-s-s-i-n-g. 😀 They rarely ever hugged, and when they did it wasn't an "aww, I love you" kinda thing, it was more like "oh my god you're alive!" and it always quickly led to kissing. It doesn't feel very intimate at all, physically OR emotionally. It's a lot more like, "oh, you're hot. Let's make out now, shall we?" And we all know that the Bangel relationship was a lot deeper than that. But it never showed. Kissing is OK, like Twillow kisses were always really adorable, but hugging, REALLY hugging like best friends who love and accept each other do, is even better. When it's all about the kissing, it's more about the romance, which can only last you so long. But hugging is deeper, sweeter, more soft loving gesture.
Like, take Bangel and Cangel for example: When Angel first showed Buffy his true face at the ice rink, she kissed him with tears in her eyes. When he first showed Cordy, she gave him a great big hug, sufficiently making him very shocked. I doubt that anyone had ever simply accepted his darker nature like that before. See, what Buffy non-verbally communicated was that she loved him and would try and forget that he was a vampire. What Cordy said was she didn't care that he was a vampire, she loved him just the way he was. 🙂 Hopefully you guys get what I mean. 😀
Awh I love that moment between them, too. I never understood all the hate for Tillow. They were cute.
I know right! That's my favorite Twillow quote ever, because it really shows what love is. Making the other person feel special and loved. 🙂 Twillow was an absolutely beautiful relationship. Yeah, I can't see any reason for hating Twillow, besides being a homophobic. I really don't understand those people. 😉 Love is love, and a lot of homosexual couples are actually healthier in many ways than heterosexual couples. And, I mean really, who hasn't EVER had at least a mildly homosexual thought? Even Harmony: "Boy, boy, girl. Or Charlize Theron." -Crush 😀
Haha don't feel bad. Angelus terrified me when I was a kid. He was just a bit more vicious than the other vampires.
Haha yeah. 😀 Actually, I don't even remember Angelus... After the scare with Ted, I was totally horrified of the show, and I didn't get back to watching it until the 5th season. In fact, I only saw Seasons 2-4 like, a year ago when I bought the Chosen Box Collection. 🙂
Wow, I really like how you explained all of that. I never even thought of it that way. Power was definitely a recurring theme in BtVS and who has the most of it. I did always like that quote from "Lessons", but never thought so deeply into it. So thank you for putting it into an entire different perspective for me.
No problemo. 🙂 That's a rant I commonly have in my head, it was fun to write it down. xD
Well, perhaps at first she was enjoying it. Cause I guess that sort of thing was erotic to her. However, to me, she started to look terrified at the end of it (after she kicks the table) like, "Why isn't he stopping? I'm going to die." I always thought that was why she didn't push him off of her, because he drained too much and it made her weak.
Yes, but I'd say the "er" and "more" are the key segments here. Although she was closer to being "done" then she was with Angel, in her words, she's still "cookie dough". She only 22; Definitely not time to settle down yet. She probably won't really be fully mature until she's 30. 🙂
Agreed. This has just turned into a chat, which is cool. Chatting is fun. 😀 We've already proved our points to one another.
I think it just needs to be said that it was in no way hinted at, as it was said it was left totally up to the viewer to fill in that bit, but it wasn't hinted at.
Buffy and Angel actually kissing, that was a hint.
Steven DeKnight and David Fury, though, write Spike even worse. Steven wrote 'Seeing Red' and David wrote 'Gone', both of which contained Spike doing grotesquely out-of-character things; the attempted rape
I can never let this one go, cuz I don't understand how people just gloss over it becasue they like Spike.
He was a Vampire, he killed and ate people, he killed 2 slayers and tortured people with railroad Spike. He then had a little chip put in his head which was basically a muzzel. Under the muzzel was a snarling monster waiting to bite, and thats what we say in Seeing Red. He had no Soul he didn't understand the difference between sex and love, to quote the episode:
BUFFY: (yelling) No, stop it!
SPIKE: I know you felt it ... when I was inside you...
...
BUFFY: No, ow, ow! (sobbing) Please, please, Spike, please...
SPIKE: You'll feel it again, Buffy...
BUFFY: Please don't do this...
SPIKE: I'm gonna make you feel it.
He was connecting sex with feelings, which Buffy wasn't, and he though if he could force sex on her she would feel it.
On the actual issue of the thread, I think in Season 7 they were friends.
Nothing I saw shows me anything to the contrary, they were good friends, and she drew strength from him, and loved him, but she also loved Xander, Willow and Giles. But she wasn't in Love with him.
She only ever said she felt something for him, but didn't know what. Well if your in love with someone, you know that feeling, it's not something you have to question. What she felt was friend love.
Even at the last minuet when she said I love you to him, he knew is wasn't true, not in the way he wanted it, she was saying it for his benefit, but Spike showed he had actually grown as a person, and he knew she wasn't in love with him - and he was ok with that.
To me, it seemed like earning Buffy's love was Spikes end goal, it would validate him as a good guy and take away the bad, he got the soul for her. And when he got back he kinda started over compensating for it, he would always side with her, even when she was wrong, all to get her approval, all to get her love.
Then in the end, she says it and he says no you don't. Now there is no need to say that unless he really believes it. She said it becasue he had been incredible to her, and had one this battle for her, so she gave him the prize he was looking for. But he know she didn't mean it, and he was ok with that, he was able to say No you don't, because he didn't need her to say it, he had shown he was a good guy and could be good, and it wasn't her love that would validate him, it was all the good he did.
And I thinks it's proven further in Angel that he isn't in love with her either anymore, as he now understands, becasue when he can leave LA, he doesn't he stays with Angel and doesn't want to seek out Buffy.
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