Subject of the Shanshu Prophecy

thevikingsgirl said:
You know what would be funny? If, at the last minute, they introduce some random, 3rd souled vamp and he gets Shanshu'd. I would totally crack up over that (granted, I haven't read the comics, but still. That would be pretty damn funny).
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You may be closer to the truth than you know. We know that the prophecy doesn't name Angel specifically as the winner of the Shanshu, any more than it names Spike. I'm beginning to think that IF the time comes that the award is given, it'll simply be the last vampire left standing after the final battle, whether it be Angel, Spike, or Romulus Rufus, the vampire who is the victim of one of Willow's efforts to stabilize Angel's soul that somehow went wrong and shoved a soul up ol' Rufus'...well, you get the idea. Who gets the prize isn't predetermined. Whether by skill, determination, or just plain dumb luck, just like with the Highlander, "in the end, there can be only one," and the combined facts that it IS the end and that whichever one IS the last one standing are what will ultimately determine who receives the Prize.

Or maybe Joss will just flip a coin.
 
I think it was meant for Angel and it's a crime if someone other then Angel gets it. I love Spike, I do. But it was for Angel. Stupid retcon. If Spike had never gotten his soul or went to Ats, this discussion wouldn't even be going on. It was created for Angel on Ats, why in the last season should Spike swoop in and steal it from him.

The Shanshu gave Angel a reason to keep fighting. It gave him hope. It was his light at the end of the tunnel. He goes through so much throughout the series and to have it yanked out from under him at the end is like a slap in the face. To throw spike into the mix after five years of building that up is just ridiculous. It was just a lame way to create more tension between Spike and Angel.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
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I think it was meant for Angel. The fact that he signed it away to keep fighting for the helpless shows just how deserving he is.

Although the possibility of it being for another vampire is interesting. I like what some others have pointed out, maybe its for a third vampire....we do know its possible for a vamp to get a soul if he wants it enough.
 
Ok, so I just realized something. Why would whoever prophesied the Shanshu purposely keep it vague? The obvious answer would be because they didn't count on there being more than one souled vampire. More specifically, they didn't count on Spike choosing to get his soul back, meaning Spike thwarted prophecy and fate itself. I think that warrants a 'neeto!' at the very least.
We know prophecies are 'tricky creatures'. Similarly to how Buffy was manipulated into freeing the Master, the Shanshu prophecy and the discord it creates between Angel and Spike could also be used to manipulate their actions.
 
F
FetalPig
Neeto! (just in case)
The Shanshu prophesy was ambiguous, but I do feel was intended to be meant for Angel.

That said - I think the most interesting way to end it could be to have both Spike and Angel be "Shanshu'd" and receive new, mortal life following their final battle. Spike's mere existence as another vampire with a soul screws up the prophesy. Perhaps that could lead to a double "Shanshu-ing"

(I love using the word "Shanshu" as a verb)
 
Ann said:
I think having to spend 100 years in a hell dimension after being sent there by the love of your life, giving up your humanity for the same love, and all the good Angel has done qualifies him for the Shanshu.
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Me too! In fact I think that Angel returning from the Hell Dimension was the fulfilment of the Shanshu, and all that fuss on Ats was down to the prophecies having been messed about with by Sahjan which was then compounded by Wesley's dodgy translation skills.
 
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Well considering there's the line in there that Wesley interpreted as "The Father Will Kill The Son", I always assumed it was meant for Angel.
 
Why can't it be both of them? Maybe they're meant to join together in unison and save the world together, and then both get the reward.

I think Spike is just as deserving as Angel, if not, a little moreso because Spike was a better person and sought out a soul by going through those trials of torture, when he could've sought a means to get rid of his chip.

They're on equal ground here. Spike may not have done as much good as Angel, but he chose a soul, and I believe would choose it again if he lost it.

---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 PM ----------

HisMrs said:
Well considering there's the line in there that Wesley interpreted as "The Father Will Kill The Son", I always assumed it was meant for Angel.
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Yes, but that sha' shong guy screwed with the prophecy, changing some of the words.

---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 PM ----------

FetalPig said:
this is from the perspective of Buffy 1-7 and Angel 1-5

Does the prophecy say anything bout the way the Champion lives their life?

The way i remember it ( I haven't checked) is that at a certain point in time a Vampire with a soul plays a pivotal role in an (the?) Apocalypse. It's not even clear whether it's for good or bad. So i don't see how it can belong to anyone.
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Is it possible that maybe Angel's meant to go bad and start up the Apocalypse and Spike is supposed to stop him?
 
Angel. I don't think Spike would even want to be human. (Well, unless it's just to spite Angel.)
 
There's no doubt it was Angel, and there's no doubt he signed his life away. It'd have irrevocably cheapened the struggle, so I'm glad the writers took that route.
 
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