Supernatural too?

[Relic]

The coroner i worked for for a time suggestedthis lesson to me.

Energy can not be created or destroyed, justchange forms. Mass can not change metabolically without energy playing a part. The measue of mass post mortum is less than the measure while living. Someone actually tried to measure the weight of the soul....

Here is the thing,scientifically speaking (according to him) as far as bio chemestry is concerned with gasses formed by 'decomposition' (admittedlily pre muscle mass and soft tissue necrosis) the body should actually weigh more by bacteria influx and and cell waste retention. before a death rattle or a clean set of clothes (considering excriment and pre and post void variable)

It does not. In fact, it weights catagoriacally less.

Where did the loss in mass go? i believe it goes to the soul wich leaves, maybe you do also? that is a question for science.

Why are there EVP's on digital recordings?

The world of spooks are not foreign to science, just unexplainded....as are UFO's and their suposeded properties viwed by the world of physics.

Anything unexplained or not disproved by science is fair game. An inability to test this by way of faith or mystery is supernatural. look the word up and apply ithe definition to all of our questions. perhpas you'll change camp to scobro's or maybe you'll give me a reason to believe they actually are different.

thus far, i don't see it.

I have actually heard one fellow blather that UFO's are fallen angels. maybe he smoked alot of dope; and maybe he's stil right?

All I'm saying is your a fool if you think you can prove the dwraves can beat the elves. It's all lunatic babble.

babble i happen to believe in, but i've locked horn with enough professors and looked stupid enough for everyone else to prove ultimately, to those that write the definitions it is all the same.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Yes, the 'soul' weighs 21 grams.

I'm not arguing that Aliens definitely exist, I am saying IF they do we could explain them with modern science because Evolution explains how they are and technology explains how they travel.

Ghosts on the other hand, I just don't see how we could define what they are and measure them.

Both I believe do exist by the way.

Supernatural;
1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe ; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2 a: departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b: attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)



For me, that description doesn't say Aliens are supernatural.

 

[Relic]

What if they breathe methaine and travel in a way physics can not understand(as they seem to.)

What then?

or what if theyare not inter stellar beings but intra dimensional. What if they are looking for ghosts and not us? what if they have more in common with them then us? what if we are getting glimpses of a ghost magic bus?

Too many unknowns to pin down for my liking when trying to quantify what ET actually are.

Your assuming they have mass, etc. etc.


Who's to say that is the case? who is to say evolution is even relative to the discussion other than you? Your not looking at this like the unknown which it is. that sets you up for preconcieved bias.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

What if the breathe methaine and travel in a way physics can not understand (as they seem to.)

What then?

Evolution explains that

We already have scientific explanations of travel through ways our current level of physics couldn't truly explain how to do - if we could, we'd be travelling like that.

 

[Relic]

Evolution explains that

We already have scientific explanations of travel through ways our current level of physics couldn't truly explain how to do - if we could, we'd be travelling like that.

please address the rest of my post if your trying to make a point, and for God's sake keep it relivant. Maybe we can exist after death as ghost too, we just can't measure it yet.

saying we don't understand it yet but might, then we will make adjustments is really no watershed moment. Same dif.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

What if the breathe methaine and

or what if theyare not inter stellar beings but intra dimensional. What if they are looking for ghosts and not us?

Too many unknowns to pin down for my liking when trying to quantify what ET actually are.

Your assuming they have mass, etc. etc.


Who's to say that is the case?

Now you're jabbering like a looney.


These things don't make them supernatural.

Again, they can be explained IF we prove they exist even at our current level of understanding however Ghost they are different beings and we don't have the technical ability to measure them. We also don't have a current scientific theory on what they are, not really.
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please address the rest of my post if your trying to make a point.

Well if you're going to post a comment then get snippy that I don't address it all, post it ALL at the same time, don't go back and edit it afterwards, makes you look foolish.

 

[Relic]

Actually it makes you look foolish. there are many at theory of what ghost are, just because you chose to ignore them does not mean the theroies and studies do not exist. there has been experiments and testing...from evp's to thermos.

same thing with UFO's we have footage and measurements. the end result is it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE NOW.

There is no difference except what you chose to assign to one as a known or percievable ( whichseems to be UFO, perhaps from too much sci fi watching...I can almost relate!)...which is funny as it is can not be proven. I hope no one sells opinion for fact here 🙂

your the one looking silly, mate. not me.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

How does you making a comment, me responding and you editing in that time THEN getting snippy because I didn't comment on your editted comment, even though I couldn't possibly see it while you are writing it, make me look foolish as that is what my foolish comment was about.

Actually it makes you look foolish. there are many atheory of what ghost are, just because you chose to ignore them does not mean they don't exist. ther ehave been experiments testing them...from evp's to thermos.

same thing with UFO's we have footage and measurements.

There is no difference except what you chose toassign to one as a known...which funny as it is can not be proven.

your looking silly, mate.

Now onto your comment (unless you add something else while I am away).

Yes, and with our current level of technology, show me what Ghosts are.
Go on, I have seen a Ghost I truly believe without a doubt they exist, as many people have and do. 'Science' has got pictures and voices on tape and set up the best testing in te most haunted of places and have we got proof of any of this?

No, so our current level of technology couldn't even prove they exist let alone measure what they are and put them in that box.

I have NOT once said that we have conclusive proof that aliens exist, maybe you just can't understand the discussion HOWEVER IF an Alien landed on our doorstep tomorrow we could at our current level explain how he came about (evolution) how he travelled(technology) and why he thinks you're a [insert your own word here](he can read).

Ghost on the other hand, we have wild speculation but nothing more than that and no scientific means to truly understand what they are - if we did we'd have it pegged by now because as I say I have seen one, so I know they exist, I just don't have a clue what it is.

 

[Relic]

OMG ADDER Really?
Are you God?

Do you intend this ship to have form and mass as well as the alien? Could it not be energy as well, same as ghosts that move furniture and show up on therm scans or make noise? You know all that shit you say is 'supernatural?'

what exactly is natural about an Alien/ you ever see a ghost/orb float/ how about an alien ship? Still to hard for you to see a possible conect the dots?

Truth is it is beyond any of us to answer. Your looking like a dork saying aliens must be this while we have no idea what ghosts are. Got an alien in your basement do you?

Ever occur to you we might be the variable and the UFO's arent after us/ maybe they can see ghosts too? maybe as explorers they are searching for truth and have more intrest in the dead that communicating/ remain active then us living nematoads. you know where we are going is more important than where we are at?

maybe?

seriously man, read what you wrote. i'd swear to god you are an alien ambassedor if i did not know better. yet every one else is wrong and possibility is non aplicable to any but our alien overlord, which must be you if i am to believe youare any more correct than scobro or I.

Whatever.

For one we are talking about ET's like they all are a collective, have mass etc. etc.. thats a huge freaking flaw in the experiment right there.

This converstaion will go nowhere untill you can admitt you don't know what aliens might be, or how we could even prioritze/catagorize them...assuming we could whichis 50/50 at best.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

OMG ADDER Really?
Are you God?

Compared to some - yes

Do you intend this ship to have form and mass as well as the alien? Could it not be energy as well, same as ghosts that move furniture and show up on therm scans or make noise? You know all that shit you say is 'supernatural?'

You seem to need a lesson in Evolution. It doesn't matter what form these aliens take, they take, evolution can explain them, it must do OR our entire science is wrong - show me scientist that has even a mildly strong case for why evolution is wrong other than 'God did it'. It is your ignorance of this that is amazing.

I have not once claimed that an alien is this what I have done is use our current understanding of the universe to say this is how they came to be. Evolution is a theory BUT not in the sense that it is wrong or even possibl wrong, we have bona fide proof it exists.

WHAT you seem to be trying to do is put my reasoning into a box that you don't understand.

what exactly is natural about an Alien/ you ever see a ghost/orb float/ how about an alien ship? Still to hard for you to see a possible conect the dots?

Again, you're showing your limited understanding.
What is natural about an Alien? Same thing that is natural about us. With current science IF we had an Alien in front of us we could show why they are who they are, thank you evolution.

I have seen a ghost and some of the greatest scientific minds have tried to find a theory and prove it as to what ghosts are - they have nothing tangible.

Truth is it is beyond any of us to answer. Your looking like a dork saying aliens must be this while we have no idea what ghosts are. Got an alien in your basement do you?

No truth is, science COULD answer, we just don't have one. I am not saying ALiens MUST be anything.
I am saying Evolution will explain what they are. You really need to work on that ignorance and also that reading.

Ever occur to you we might be the variable and the UFO's arent after us/ maybe they can see ghosts too? maybe as explorers they are searching for truth and have more intrest in the dead that communicating/ remain active then us living nematoads. you know where we are going is more important than where we are at?

This is a totally irrelevent point and further shows your utter ignorance of what I have said.

Doesn't matter if they come to search for a flying hippogryff, they would still be explainable through evolution.

seriously man, read what you wrote. i'd swear to god you are an alien ambassedor if i did not know better. yet every one else is wrong and possibility is non aplicable to any but our alien overlord, which must be you if i am to believe youare any more correct than scobro or I.

Whatever.

For one we are talking about ET's like they all are a collective, have mass etc. etc.. thats a huge freaking flaw in the experiment right there.

I have read it - maybe you should read what I wrote.
You're comedic ignorance not with standing you have no point.

No, there is no experiment, whatever form these aliens take can be explained by evolution.
Just because we don't have the product in front of us doesn't mean we can't use one of our greatest scientific truths to explain it.

You seem to be attacking my belief that Evolution will be able to explain this but if you attack it you must be attacking the theory of Evolution itself because that is what I am arguing.

Fair enough - prove to me that Evolution is wrong.
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This converstaion will go nowhere untill you can admitt you don't know what aliens might be, or how we could even prioritze/catagorize them...assuming we could whichis 50/50 at best.

There you go, adding more in an edit after I have started so I will do the same.

I don't need to admit anything, I know I am correct because Evolution is correct. You have to give me some proof that evolution is incorrect for this.

No matter what form an alien takes there will be evolutionary proof on why it is in that form.

However it is interesting that you are the one trying to beat out what form it will take.

Maybe this conversation is a bit above you, I don't know, but you should read what I have said again.

 

[Relic]

Oh I've read it and your pride is astounding!

You seem to need a lesson in science. You can not attach false observations and known nonapplicable properties to unknowns, thats prejudice and will ruin your experiment and argument!

Science is not wrong if it is simply unknown...aliens and ghost could be kindred, thats a possibility you turn a blind eye to. they both are supernatural...phone your buddy mulder he'll set you straight. Evolution may well not explain what they are. IS THAT GETTING THROUGH TO YOU YET?

Also how in the 9 hells can you claim to know what 'natural' for an alien is.... lol! look up alien will you! Why must our science apply to them. And you did suggest that...for that matter said it. they might not be phsical beings at all.

Ohh, and fair enough my arse... you prove that aliens must be products of evolution. you believe in a sould don't you/ does that not provide at least equal playing ground?

ET are blinding light and that sorta thing. Think outside the confines of the box, will you? We are talking outside the box butt gnomes anyway.

really your talking about this like it can be put in a lab. Truth is it can not, not to mention both may contain spiritual elements in part or in full. You just cant argue that you know when you don't. it is that simple. do you understand now?

Why you can't grasp that when your as bright as you are, i don't know.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Science is not wrong if it is simply unknown...aliens and ghost could be kindred, thats a possibility you turn a blind eye to. they both are supernatural...phone your buddy mulder he'll set you straight.

That comment there shows your utter utter stupidity to be fair.

It doesn't matter about the relationship between Aliens and Ghosts, your fixation between them has blinded you to common sense.

Also how in the 9 hells can you claim to know what 'natural' for an alien is.... lol! look up alien will you! Why must our science apply to them. And you did suggest that...for that matter said it.

Ignorance of this level must mean you live in a constant state of supreme bliss if the old saying is correct.

IF our science, particularly the stuff like Evolution, Time, Gravity stuff, you know the BIG hitters is incorrect for Alien life then it is incorrect for us.

There is no way we are correct if it doesn't work for another species.

That is why our science must apply to them.
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Ohh, and fair enough...prove that aliens must be products of evolution. you believein a sould don't you/ does that not provide atleast equal playing ground?

ET are blinding light and that sorta thing.

really your talking about this like it can be put in a lab. Truth is it can not and both may contain spiritual elements in partor in full. You just cant argue that you know when you don't. it is that simple.

Why you can't grasp that when your as bright as you are, i don't know.

You did it again.

The theory of Evolution IS the proof. If it doesn't work for Alien species then it doesn't work for us. It can't.
You should do some actual research, maybe talk to some scientists about this.

IF there is a spiritual element to Alien life there must be to this, we cannot be exempt from one theory. Life follows a pattern, that pattern is Evolution. That is as close to fact as you need.
IF Alien life does not fall into that then our entire scientific structure surrounding Evolution is wrong.

You need to contact someone and get a clue mate.

 

[Relic]

Enlighten me then, what is the difference between aliens and ghosts...please show your work and provide proof. Whats that, you can't. oh, i'm suprised!

You have no idea what forms aliens might be in. Do you thinK God evolved?How about angels? What does that imply about his creations, we did they did not? Did we evolve or devolve with sin? Does an alien need to eat? What about Greedo?

If ignorance is bliss and your a Christian (like me) talking about evolution, etc. etc. Well.... pot meet kettle.

God made us this way. Why could he not make them another way? thats the way the argument works no?

If God made physics and souls maybe he decided to not color with yellow on the day he made aliens....lets skip right to the orange and make floating souls instead. In science it is not my role to prove it, but yours to disprove it. And if your still calling yourself God i'm still ROFLMAO

Your really going to preach science when it does not even recognoze the afterlife among the global community?

Your the goof here, not me.

i think thats more than evident.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Enlighten me then, what is the difference? Whats that, you can't. oh, i'm suprised!

What?

Enlighten you on what part?
Just randomly stringing words together and making the sentence make sense are key to conversation. You have the first part but not the second.

If ignorance is bliss and your a Christian (like me) talking about evolution, etc. etc. Well.... pot meet kettle.

God made us this way. Why could he not make them another way? thats the way the argument works no?

If God made physics and souls maybe he decided to not color with yellow on the day he made aliens....lets skip right to the orange and make floating souls instead. In science it is not my role to prove it, but yours to disprove it. And if your still calling yourself God i'm still ROFLMAO

Your really going to preach science when it does not even recognoze the afterlife among the global community?

Your the goof here, not me.

i think thats more than evident.

There ladies and gentlemen we have a winner.
I get you now. You're a God botherer, a bible basher.

God made us 5 thousand years ago and shoved us on this planet.

You just put the final nail in your argument mate.

Ohh and the I am God comment - that was sarcasm, so glad you took it literally.

No fear Buffy-Boards. God did it.:lmao:

 

[Relic]

You don't have a clue about who i am so stop pretending to know, ninny

Insult my beliefs, or my reading ability, or whatever all you want, but don't insult my faith.

I am far from a bible basher. fact is God said we were rare as his creations...perhaps just in this form that you say requires evolution. Might that mean aliens are more soul that flesh? HMMM?

i don't feel happy thoughts for you anymore adder, I won't loathe you. such actions are not worth my time.

As of now i'm out of this discussion with you. you aren't worth the lack of sleep.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

You're the one who has just shown why your entire argument is flawed.

So you have been arguing that Evolution is wrong, not that my application of it is.

Thats just groovy.

I've never actually met anyone that believed that before. This isn't a dig. Had you been clearer that this was your stance, this whole conversation would have been completely different.
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I am far from a bible basher. fact is God said we were rare as his creations...perhaps just in this form that you say requires evolution. Might that mean aliens are more soul that flesh? HMMM?

i don't feel happy thoughts for you anymore adder, I won't loathe you. such actions are not worth my time.

As of now i'm out of this discussion with you. you aren't worth the lack of sleep.

That is a completely different discussion based entirely on faith and not science. Like I said this would have been a completely different conversation had you made it clear where you were coming from.

I was coming from the accepted belief in Evolution, which I honestly thought you were.

If you don't feel 'happy thoughts' I am sorry. You should have been clearer. I actually do like our sparring but now I know a different side to it.

Enjoy bed🙂

 

[Relic]

For your sake i will explain this once and once only. I am not talking about star trek or star wars, I'm talking possibility.

Also, I don't believe evolution to be without heavy consideration. What i don't believe is that God must use it on the universal scale. God can do as God pleases.

Concerning my argument I have not proven my argument to be flawed. i havenot attempted to prove jack squat other than the possibilty exists.

I have just said from the begining God need not use evolution or our human condition on all his creations. that Aliens could be angels or souls or energy...whatever God made them.

So stop your back peddeling and putting words in my mouth.

Now, unless you want to shove your hand up my arse further and try to make me say things i did not, we are done here.

My point has been made again and again and again.

And now I'm tired of making it.

And yes you have seen a different side to our discussion. I can not only be hard to understand by you, but i can be pissed as well. Espescially when someone calls me a bible basher when everthing i hold dear in life and everything worth having to me....every reason i have purpose and am happy about I owe to GOD.

You can make mistakes in judgment Edmund, everyone can and does. This is a prime example.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

For your sake i will explain this once and once only. This is not star trek or star wars. i don't believe evolution to be without heavy consideration. What i don't believe is that God must use it on the universal scale.

I have not disproved jack squat. I have just said from the begining God need not use evolution or or human condition on all his creations.

Stop your back peddeling and putting words in my mouth.

Now, unless you want to shove your hand up my arse further and try to make me say things i did not, we are done here.

My point has been made again and again and again.

And now I'm tired of making it.

No, you're bringing in faith to science.

While the two aren't mutually exclusive, we don't have scientific proof of one but we do of the other.

I have not put any words in anyones mouth, everything I have said is based on comments you made I have even quoted most - so people can see the truth.

And trust me, my hand won't be going anywhere near there😛
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And yes you have ssen a different side to it. i can not only be hard to understand by you, but i can be pissed as well. espescially when someone calls me a bibl basher when everthing i hold dear in life and everything worth having to me....every reason i have purpose and am happy I owe to GOD.

You can make mistakes in judgment Edmund. this is a prime example.

In the 21st Century in the first world, I don't think it can be held against me for assuming one would believe a scientifically provable thing over something based entirely on faith.

I have a belief in God myself, but that is a different discussion for a different thread.

I am sorry for the Bible Basher comment, that was wrong BUT that doesn't negate anything I have said.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

I did ghost hunting for a few years, I got scared by what I would describe as evil. Not evil as done by those who practised the dark arts but by the dead. I've seen items float in a room, I've heard, seen and touched ghosts. I've read about things that ( I hope ) are not of this world.
If some folk want to believe that beings from other planets are supernatural that is up to them. But I don't. I wonder if they think we are supernatural, as we are of a different world than them.

 

[Blondie Bear]

Okay, children. Do you want to be separated? Is that what you want?

There's really no sense arguing over any of this as it can't be explained through any science we have. Even physicists are discovering that the physics that works on Earth doesn't necessarily work out in the middle of space (or in a black hole, which is a REAL physics mess).

I suggest we all take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard.