Supernatural (TV Show)

Which one? What's it about?

You should read Living as Lenore, which is Tara-centric and has her being reborn as the vampire she played on SPN. They have it at Twisting the Hellmouth.
It's a Dean/Buffy fanfiction. The story is like this: It's around Buffy season 8 (with the Slayer organisation and more stuff from the comics) and SPN season... (I don't remember lol, I haven't watched it yet anyways 😛). Buffy is sucked into a portal and then she is in the SPN universe (a alternate/parallel universe). She meets Sam and Dean and later also Cas. They try to find out who/what put her there and try to find a way to send her back home. And there also seems to be like a big bad... I haven't finished it yet 😛
What I really like about it is that the mythology/laws of the shows are in some ways similar but also so completely different. And it is so funny when Buffy is confused about how things work in the SPN universe. And also when they talk about Angels and God!!! (aka Chuck lol 😛) 😂😂😂

And I'll defenitely check the Tara fanfiction out! I love her so much😍😍😍🥰💕💖 🙂
 
Only a few more days to go! I'm really looking forward to this season, from every thing I've read and seen it's shaping up to be a jam packed season.
 
I have avoided most previews and stuff so far, but might go hard on the day of airing to psych up for it. I hope they remember to throw some humour in there.
 
I'm currently an ep behind, but I can watch that tomorrow.

What was the name of the character that Mercedes played, neither of us could remember, I know it was a vampire though.

Also I might've booked to go to the Cross Roads convention next year.
 
What was the name of the character that Mercedes played,
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Okay, for those who have seen Season 9 what is your opinion on the whole

Dean allowing Gadreel to possess Sam? For me, it was a massive violation of the skeeviest nature, and Dean's constant gaslighting of Sam while Gadreel was still possessing him made it even worse. Yet I can't help feeling like the narrative is condoning Dean's actions, given how he hasn't apologised, constantly justifies his actions by saying he did what was right, and has refused to acknowledge the affects it had on Sam? Not to mention every time Sam gets justifiably angry, Dean snarks at him or throws Sam's words in his face.

So, whose side are you guys on? Frankly, I think Sam (and Cas) need to get as far away from Dean as possible and that Sam has every right to his anger at Dean, but that's just me.
 
NileQT87
NileQT87
Dean got an abuse twofer out of that arc. He violated Sam with trickery and threw Cas out of the bunker without explanation, apology or any help when he was newly human, homeless and penniless because he was a threat to exposing Gadreel as a fraud.
Okay, for those who have seen Season 9 what is your opinion on the whole

Dean allowing Gadreel to possess Sam? For me, it was a massive violation of the skeeviest nature, and Dean's constant gaslighting of Sam while Gadreel was still possessing him made it even worse. Yet I can't help feeling like the narrative is condoning Dean's actions, given how he hasn't apologised, constantly justifies his actions by saying he did what was right, and has refused to acknowledge the affects it had on Sam? Not to mention every time Sam gets justifiably angry, Dean snarks at him or throws Sam's words in his face.

So, whose side are you guys on? Frankly, I think Sam (and Cas) need to get as far away from Dean as possible and that Sam has every right to his anger at Dean, but that's just me.

Yes, that thing with Gadreel was a MASSIVE violation. Poor Sam.
 
Poor Sam.
Poor Sam? Dean saved his life. It wasn't his fault he was misled and trusted the word of an angel - which would come up again in a subsequent season - when he said he'd leave the body after the job was done. Sam should be thankful.
 
Okay, for those who have seen Season 9 what is your opinion on the whole

Dean allowing Gadreel to possess Sam? For me, it was a massive violation of the skeeviest nature, and Dean's constant gaslighting of Sam while Gadreel was still possessing him made it even worse. Yet I can't help feeling like the narrative is condoning Dean's actions, given how he hasn't apologised, constantly justifies his actions by saying he did what was right, and has refused to acknowledge the affects it had on Sam? Not to mention every time Sam gets justifiably angry, Dean snarks at him or throws Sam's words in his face.

So, whose side are you guys on? Frankly, I think Sam (and Cas) need to get as far away from Dean as possible and that Sam has every right to his anger at Dean, but that's just me.
I stand where I often stand when the brothers are divided - between them. Thanks to what I consider great writing, I can always see things from both sides and so I feel like I can't really pick who's 'side' I'm on. Sam absolutely has a right to his anger and definitely deserves an apology, but the show has also gone out of its way in the past to show that Dean will go too far to keep his brother alive, especially - I would assume - after the year he spent with Lisa, grieving Sam before discovering that he was alive (back) all along.

However, I don't think that Dean's choices make him toxic to be around - at least not any more than he's always been.
 
Okay, for those who have seen Season 9 what is your opinion on the whole

Dean allowing Gadreel to possess Sam? For me, it was a massive violation of the skeeviest nature, and Dean's constant gaslighting of Sam while Gadreel was still possessing him made it even worse. Yet I can't help feeling like the narrative is condoning Dean's actions, given how he hasn't apologised, constantly justifies his actions by saying he did what was right, and has refused to acknowledge the affects it had on Sam? Not to mention every time Sam gets justifiably angry, Dean snarks at him or throws Sam's words in his face.

So, whose side are you guys on? Frankly, I think Sam (and Cas) need to get as far away from Dean as possible and that Sam has every right to his anger at Dean, but that's just me.


I think that is BS. Let Sam die or let him be healed... hmmm... Sam might have left Dean to die but Dean has always been ultra protective of Sams life. Dean has always been the one to save Sam at all costs and Sam has usually been the one to bow out at the first chance he gets. It is completely in character and like Dean to make a tough choice for the benefit of his brothers life. Dean is part brother, part father, he is understandably going to do whatever it takes to keep Sam going. The words you've used are really hyperbolic for a fantasy situation, it has caused offence in me, not because of its relation to the show but because in the real world that stuff is done out of hate and contempt. Dean was acting with unwavering love.
 
Spoilers for last several seasons:
I'm incredibly proud of Cas for finally cutting off Dean's abusive, toxic, narcissistic persona out of his life. Suffice to say, I noticed the warning signs long before season 14 (it helps that I watched the entire show in a month) and have never, ever bought the wishful-thinking fanon garbage that is Destiel (it's NOT in the show). It's been a long time coming and Dean's treatment didn't just start being horrific with Jack's birth. Lest we forget Dean was calling Jack a monster since before he was born. Nephilim are half-angel, so we have a situation where Cas has always wanted to be treated as part of the found-family, only to be constantly also othered by how Dean treats Jack as a born-monster that indirectly also calls Cas out for not being human. It was always there, but just got intolerable.

Cas is only useful to Dean as long as he has powers and Dean has rejected him every single time he was either human or hasn't had them to contribute. When he was human or insane (because he saved Sam by taking the hell crazy into himself), he was abandoned (thank goodness for Meg!). While Cas and Sam have made some really huge mistakes, they've always felt deep guilt and gone above and beyond to make up for them; and yet, you never see Dean do this or be particularly thankful when he's benefiting from it. Dean often also makes light of Sam and Cas' feelings when they attempt to express them (even when those feelings go up to being suicidal). Every time Cas has asked for help, even reminding the Winchesters that he's done everything they've ever asked of him at great personal cost (remember he doesn't have a home or species who will take him back), Dean has complained. A good example of that is when Cas asked for help with Claire and Dean gave him grief for it.

While Sam has been nothing but kind to Cas (I adored their team-ups last season), Cas also knows that Sam will always side with his brother regardless of how often he's been similarly treated. Sam should also kick Dean to the curb so that he can finally, for once in his life, have to take responsibility for how he treats others and not expect everyone to apologize and make things up to him only and never the other way around. How many times have Sam and Cas felt they have to make crazy sacrifices or go above-and-beyond to get Dean's approval back? Cas literally has nothing left to give up or live for, other than himself.

"Nobody cares that you're broken, Cas."
"Well, that's great, because without your power, you're just a baby in a trench coat."

Dean has been treating Cas as if his feelings never matter and he's only useful as a tool when he has powers he can contribute (and, as Cas said, those are now failing, likely because Chuck is injured). I can only hope that Sam calls Dean out on what he's done to Cas, Jack and himself over the years, even if he can't make the final break. Though I think Sam will never have a serious relationship away from Dean if he remains with him. And at this point, if they all survive, that has to come up at some point. The Winchesters aren't young boys anymore. As Dean said, "We are not a team. This is a dictatorship." (yes, that's an actual quote) and he's the dictator.

I'm so glad the show has finally stopped taking Dean's side in the narrative (the reason the fandom is totally up Dean's backside and makes excuses for every crap thing he's ever done is because the writers were just as bad) and started to call him out on how he treats numerous characters like Cas, Jack and Sam. It's been such a long time coming.


*Sorry. I didn't know the discussion involved people who weren't up to date.
 
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Puppet
Puppet
Put it in a spoiler, Rach hasn't seen past S9.
nightshade
nightshade
Added a spoiler warning
I think that is BS. Let Sam die or let him be healed... hmmm... Sam might have left Dean to die but Dean has always been ultra protective of Sams life. Dean has always been the one to save Sam at all costs and Sam has usually been the one to bow out at the first chance he gets. It is completely in character and like Dean to make a tough choice for the benefit of his brothers life. Dean is part brother, part father, he is understandably going to do whatever it takes to keep Sam going. The words you've used are really hyperbolic for a fantasy situation, it has caused offence in me, not because of its relation to the show but because in the real world that stuff is done out of hate and contempt. Dean was acting with unwavering love.
Dude, if you're getting offended over someone else's opinion, that's on you. I used the term gaslighting (which I'm assume you're referring to) because that's what Dean does to Sam. He spends weeks convincing Sam that Sam is hearing things, that he's "confused" from being constantly knocked out, that what Sam's feeling isn't real, to the point that Sam starts to genuinely believe that something is actually wrong with him. It doesn't matter whether or not Dean was "acting with unwavering love" (which, IMO, he wasn't, he was just trying to cover his own tracks), regardless of whether Dean loves Sam, he can and does still hurt him.

It's not hyperbolic to use terms such as violation and skeevy, because both of those apply in this situation. Dean essentially allowed another being to body-jack Sam without Sam's consent. That is a violation and, for me at least, it is very, very skeevy. Someone else was inside Sam's body, accessing his mind, using his limbs, locking him away inisde his own mind, all without Sam's consent or knowledge.

Dean may have acted out of some misguided notion of love, but he took away Sam's free will and autonomy. And I'm with Sam, in that I believe that Dean did this just as much (if not more) for his own benefit than for Sam's. Sam was ready to die. He didn't want to be saved in this manner, not if it meant this type of violation. But Dean is completely co-dependent on his brother, to unhealthy degrees and so he refused to let Sam go. Sam being able to let go of Dean is merely him being healthier than Dean, knowing when to put himself first and not giving in to the ridiculous co-dependency that Dean tries to force on him. Also, Sam would understand that bodily violating someone and taking away their free will is too great a price to save their life. And we all know how well Dean would have taken things and the river of crap Sam would have copped were the roles reversed.

Now, I get and agree that this is all perfectly in-character for Dean. My problem isn't so much with what Dean did, but more with the way it's framed within the narrative. Instead of using this as an opportunity for Dean to grow and have him acknowledge how his co-dependency caused him to violate, hurt and abuse Sam and actually have him apologise and admit fault (while allowing Sam his understandable hurt and anger) the show just has Dean maintain his self-righteousness and insistence that he was right and that Sam should be thankful for what he did.

Puppet Put it in a spoiler, Rach hasn't seen past S9.

Thanks Hon, but it's okay, I know most major spoilers thanks to Tumblr 🙂
 
some sort of underlying machismo or misogyny or whatever that made it feel imbalanced to me .
I'm watching season 2 of Supernatural now and I can definitely feel the imbalance of quality between male and female characters. I felt it worse with The Walking Dead though and that was made even more recently (2010) but both shows were made recently so there's no excuse for it really. There's just something that feels really old fashioned to me. I think both shows are made more for men than women.
 
I'm watching season 2 of Supernatural now and I can definitely feel the imbalance of quality between male and female characters. I felt it worse with The Walking Dead though and that was made even more recently (2010) but both shows were made recently so there's no excuse for it really. There's just something that feels really old fashioned to me. I think both shows are made more for men than women.
Pretty sure the fandom majority is women (and not just cause of the hotness of the leads 😛) so I think if they aimed the show at men, they failed.

I personally never noticed any imbalance; we have TV shows full of female casts - L Word, Golden Girls, Sex and the City, Desperate Housewives - and shows where the majority of the leads are female and of course shows where they are equal between male and female. Supernatural being mostly male (for now, no spoilers from me) is, to me, just how it is, just coincidence. But then I've never been one to notice what will offend other people (like how white BtVS is, lol 😀)
 
Pretty sure the fandom majority is women (and not just cause of the hotness of the leads 😛) so I think if they aimed the show at men, they failed.
Yeah I was pretty shocked to hear that! I have a lot to get through so i guess I'll get why more by the end 😄
I think it's the pattern I see in fantasy/drama shows specifically that is kind of bothering because it seems like if that sort of show is orientated towards male characters it's hard to find good female characters but if that sort of show is female orientated you can more easily find good male characters.
E.g. Buffy obviously has great male and female characters, even charmed put effort into both male and female characters. On the side of the two male orientated fantasy shows I'm watching (TWD and Supernatural) the good female characters are lacking. The exception would be Angel which has both.
 
Yeah I was pretty shocked to hear that! I have a lot to get through so i guess I'll get why more by the end 😄
I think it's the pattern I see in fantasy/drama shows specifically that is kind of bothering because it seems like if that sort of show is orientated towards male characters it's hard to find good female characters but if that sort of show is female orientated you can more easily find good male characters.
E.g. Buffy obviously has great male and female characters, even charmed put effort into both male and female characters. On the side of the two male orientated fantasy shows I'm watching (TWD and Supernatural) the good female characters are lacking. The exception would be Angel which has both.
I don't know how far into S2 you are, but the lack of good, strong female characters doesn't last long. Now, granted, they aren't in every episode, because this isn't an ensemble show and the brothers are constantly on the road, but when they show up they are, imo, some of the best female characters I've seen.
 
Bop
Bop
I'm on episode 7 I'll look forward to seeing them :)
RachM
RachM
It's just a pity they don't treat said female characters all that well!
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