The Buffy Rip Off Diaries

[thetopher]

I have to say, and I might be in a minority in this, I like that the Whedon mythology is left kinda vague. It means we get boards like this with fans mulling over all the little bits and pieces that are gathered over the episodes.

I don't want everything explained, I like a little mystery in a show and I'm not anal enough to demand 100% details about vampires or magic or whatever. I just wanna see consistant writing.
And, barring Spike, we get that from Buffy/Angel.
I mean the shows about a vampire slayer, and when the writers try and add too much to the slayer mythology (Gaurdians, The Scythe...) fans tend to complain anyway.

We do find out things like the the first vampire, Old Ones and the Deeper Well, the expanding world that not all demons are nessessarily evil. Does that mean they have souls? I don't know, and that's fine with me. 🙂

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Please keep away from discussing werewolf mythology, it is a really bad joke. Werewolves only come out when the moon is full.
If you took it seriously werewolves could be werewolves 24/7 (like the original werewolf in Underworld). A full moon rotates around the world, it stays about the same size and is mostly round all the time. According to werewolf myth bits of it fall off each and every month and it grows in size just before the full moon.

 

[Marisa]

I think in one of the latest episodes (I don't really keep up with the show), one of the main vampire characters was locked in a crate and then sent to the bottom of the ocean? Anybody recognize that from a certain season of Angel?

That right there was like LOL. I saw the gifs and was like really? My mom keeps up with the show and she said she thought of Angel when she saw this.



I actually used to try and defend the vampire diaries back in the day. It seems better just to ignore the similarities because the vampire diaries is a mess and has been for a while. Buffy on it's worst day will not even compare to the vampire diaries. I mean the acting for one is so much better and the writing and characters in general.

There are similarities. The vampire diaries was a book but the books are completely different from the show from what I have read. The Elena and Stefan thing tries to be Bangel 2.0 but it is not working for me. Damon seems to be the Spike of the show but again he does not even come close. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if Julie tried to copy. Maybe she should do it more? The vampire diaries is like one big spin the bottle room. Random people hooking up and declaring love. So yes I see similarities but the show is so bad that I just don't care lol. It's not like it will ever be on the buffy/angel level to me.

Overall I don't think the vampire diaries fans will care. I mean the younger ones. Maybe Buffy and Angel are to "old" for them now. A lot of the younger fangirls don't really know these shows.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Ok, if you've ever actually watched "The Vampire Diaries", you'd know it's definitely not a rip-off of BtVS. It has a few elements in common, but the shows and their story arcs are very different.
Sorry, but I have to roll my eyes at this video.

 

[Buffy Summers]

The Vampire Diaries were published in 1991 and 1992.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

What do you think?

I thought this too, then found out that The Vampire Diaries actually came before Buffy - the books were originally published in 1991-1992.

 

[Still a Scoobie]

True, but it's generally accepted that tVD the show follows tVD the books about as faithfully as it follows Casino Royale, Bohemian Rhapsody and Airplane 2.

 

[Xin Rong]

True, but it's generally accepted that tVD the show follows tVD the books about as faithfully as it follows Casino Royale, Bohemian Rhapsody and Airplane 2.

I've only read the wiki on the books, but yeah they're nothing like the books.

I read somewhere that someone from VD worked on Buffy at some point, am I imagining this?

 

[Still a Scoobie]

I believe one of the lead producers or writers or someone is a fan of Buffy (hardly surprising, given the content of this debate) but yeah, I think I also heard that there's somebody there who worked on Buffy. How true it is I have no idea, but I've heard it somewhere.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

True, but it's generally accepted that tVD the show follows tVD the books about as faithfully as it follows Casino Royale, Bohemian Rhapsody and Airplane 2.

Right but at the same time, it still negates a lot of peoples arguments.

I mean, why aren't people complaining that BtVS ripped off the young high school girl in love with an older brooding vampire?

Or being caught in a love triangle between two vampires?

The fact that the main character is a blonde spunky high school girl? (in the books she's blonde)

The fact that the first vampire love interest was a good vampire, who lived on the streets living of animal blood?

The fact that the second vampire love interest starts out as a villain, helped out the main character when it worked in his favour and then fell for her?

Or the fact that the main characters best friend is a red haired witch (in the books she's red hair)

That in the first book Elena dresses up in a renaissance dress to impress Stefan (Which Buffy did similarly in season 2)

The main character is killed in the books, after being turned into a vampire and is resurrected.

There is a friend/frenemy of the main character who a little vapid and selfish and was her rival for their version of "homecoming queen"

That same friends boyfriend turn out to be a werewolf who leaves her...


I haven't read the books, this is all quickly gleaned from a google search, I had no idea the books were done before the show. But the fact that a lot of this stuff is in the book directly counter acts a number of the points made by people in this thread of what TVD "stole" from Buffy.

Absolutely TVD has taken stuff, like the coffin in the sea, from BtVS/Angel but given the number of stuff that happened in the books before the show, it's a little crazy to give BtVS as much originality credit as it gets.

---------- Post added at 12:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------

I've only read the wiki on the books, but yeah they're nothing like the books.

I read somewhere that someone from VD worked on Buffy at some point, am I imagining this?

I believe one of the lead producers or writers or someone is a fan of Buffy (hardly surprising, given the content of this debate) but yeah, I think I also heard that there's somebody there who worked on Buffy. How true it is I have no idea, but I've heard it somewhere.

One of the producers has said she's a big fan of Whedons, and according to IMDB one of the other producers directed a few episodes of Buffy and Angel.

The plots are actually quite similar between the books and the show, they dont stick to them completely, but a lot of the tv shows stories are directly from the books.

 

[Still a Scoobie]

All fairly valid points BUT how well known were tVD the books? Is it reasonable to assume that (m)any writers on Buffy would have read them? I was under the impression they flopped massively (could be wrong though), and you could argue that the odds of making tVD without watching Buffy are astronomical compared to making Buffy without reading tVD.

Also, as we discussed previously, the fact is storylines will be reproduced, the important thing is how much of an effort is put into differentiating ones own work or making it better than anything done by anyone else who's done similar stories. Again due to the respective success of tVD the books and Buffy, one could easily argue that those plot points were made better (given that those who have read the books mostly agree they were poor, I'd say that argument practically wins itself) and Buffy being a slayer certainly adds a twist to those vampire love interest points.

Has any fan of tVD the books ever said that Buffy was a rip-off of/copy of/suspiciously similar to them? Well, you've just drawn comparisons of course but it's over a decade since Buffy finished and this is the first I'm hearing of it. The fact is, if Buffy did knowingly take from tVD, then it did so in the best possible way, improving on the original material. Whereas tVD (which I actually consider more a Twilight for the small screen than a Buffy re-do, albeit with a fair few Buffy-esque elements) feels like much more of an uninspired re-hash. As before this is personal opinion and I respect the opposite view but my argument has always centred around who does what they do better and I don't think that anyone can honestly claim to believe that that is tVD in either format. Fair play to you if you like tVD but if anything that should make you care less if it's a rip-off of Buffy. I like Harry Potter, and the fact that it's a massive rip-off of many, many other fantasy works does not faze me in the slightest (the movies do make me want to gouge my own eyes out with a rusty spoon, but that's another story).

Anyone who comes along doing what somebody else did a decade ago, only nowhere near as well, is going to have to deal with the copy/rip-off tag, however fair that may be. And to be fair, I doubt anyone connected with the making of tVD cares, they're doing pretty well out of it.

---------- Post added at 02:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------

OK, I've been pretty vocal in my disdain for tVD, but - having finally gotten around to watching them - can I just say that the vids in the OP in no way represent the views of everyone who's a little critical of tVD's Buffy-esque leanings. Many of the things picked out therein are of debateable value to the discussion and the manner in which they are presented is unfair. Having said that, if you watch (or skip) to the end of the first video, one of the suggested videos that pops up is a little round-up of a few Buffy references from other TV shows and it's well worth a watch. Some of them are pretty tenuous, and you'll probably have seen them all before but it's 12 minutes that should fill any Buffy fan's heart with a little bit of a warm glowing, warming glow. 🙂

I feel strangely at peace having watched it, in fact if I was Angel then right now I might be sailing a little close to the wind of soullessness.






but tVD still sucks 😛

 

[BuffyElevated]

BEG hit the nail on the head. Saying "The Vampire Diaries" ripped off "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" after reading all that he wrote is just ludicrous.
But whatever... Haters gonna hate no matter what. 😉

 

[thetopher]

We know what inspired BTVS- it was all those slasher movies about the dumb blonde cheerleader getting killed off by the monster.

Most of the other stuff evolves from that one premise.- How does the dumb blonde survive? Uh, she has superpowers to kick the monster's ass! Well, okay, how come she keeps on running into these monsters? Ah....sacred duty! Yep, she's chosen or something- it'll be a great movie!
BtVS is a parody/pastiche of all those movies, plus it adds to it with the 'highschool as horror' metaphor, which works pretty well.

Looking at tVD its pretty clear to me that it wouldn't have ever been made if Buffy hadn't been made first/been such a huge success. To me, that's all that matters. 🙂

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Yeah if people want to point out all the things TVD has done that BtVS has done and yell theft, but when confronted with stuff TVS did years before BtVS and just claim that there's no way Buffy ripped it off there's no point in having a discussion.

Buffy is a superior show, but the blind allegiance it can have is super annoying.

 

[Xin Rong]

Yeah if people want to point out all the things TVD has done that BtVS has done and yell theft, but when confronted with stuff TVS did years before BtVS and just claim that there's no way Buffy ripped it off there's no point in having a discussion.

Buffy is a superior show, but the blind allegiance it can have is super annoying.

So did the close your eyes scene happen in the books?

Did Stefan get locked underwater over summer in the books?

Was their a secret society that experimented on vampires in the books, that the characters only discover when they go off to college?

Does Stefan have an alter ego in the books?

Did Caroline's werewolf boyfriend leave her in college?

Is the term 'ripper' used in the book?

Genuinely asking?

I get your point about people being too loyal to Buffy, and in some ways your right, but I think there are too many direct rip offs from Buffy for it to be a mere coincidence, or reinterpretation, they are just plagiarising, IMO. You can't blame VD tbh, Buffy was incredibly successful and a lot of its fanbase might not have watched it, so they've imitated something they know works, because it's easier and safe, but I don't think you can dismiss the fact that is imitating Buffy in a variety of ways as just Buffy fans being overly loyal.

The thing that made Buffy special is that it also drew influence from a variety of sources, but it did it well, and put its own spin on it, which made it a better show. We all knew the plot of Frankenstein, Hansel and Gretel, Jekyl and Hyde etc. but the show reinterpreted them, so they were enjoyable. VD doesn't pull that off, it just steals ideas and rehashes them for a more contemporary audience.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

So did the close your eyes scene happen in the books?

It wasn't mentioned in the summaries, doubt it

Did Stefan get locked underwater over summer in the books?

Think it was a well in the books, locked in a well and eventually found close to "death"

Was their a secret society that experimented on vampires in the books, that the characters only discover when they go off to college?

Dont think so

Does Stefan have an alter ego in the books?

Yes, I think so

Did Caroline's werewolf boyfriend leave her in college?

Don't know if it was in college, but her werewolf boyfriend left her in the books in either highschool or college

Is the term 'ripper' used in the book?

Don't know

I get your point about people being too loyal to Buffy, and in some ways your right, but I think there are too many direct rip offs from Buffy for it to be a mere coincidence,or reinterpretation, they are just plagiarising, IMO.

Absolutely there are many rip off bits. Like I said BtVS is a much better show, but disregarding elements BtVS reused while pointing out the points that Buffy did first doesn't make sense to me

But my original point was if you explain the show buffy as: A blonde cheerleader falls for a tall dark brooding older man.
She find out he's a vampire and still wants him, now she's in love with a good vampire, who used to be a mass murder, got his humanity back, lived in the streets on animal blood and they date for a while.
The blonde cheerleaders best friend is a girl with red hair, who is a witch.
At one point the blonde main character forces the brooding male vampire to drink her blood. Another time she got dressed up in a costume more of his time period for halloween.
Later another vampire, who's laid back and kinda an ass, shows up as a villain, then starts helping the main blonde character, then falls for her and has to prove he is a good man

Which am I explaining BtVS or TVD books?

The above is a perfect summary of BtVS without mentioning the word slayer or mentioning that the main character in TVD becomes a vampire.

Even if BtVS didn't rip off TVD (Which I dont think it did) it's INSANE to talk about it like it's never ripped off anything else. If it didn't steal from TVD, some of the ideas were so unoriginal that it accidentally ripped off TVD.

Dismissing something for reusing good ideas is stupid, especially when it does them to an entertaining level without being awful.

The idea of dismissing something cuz a show based in a similar setting is crazy. No high school based shows should have their characters get together or break up if thats the case, whats the point they did it on 90210 years ago.
We wouldn't have shows based in hospitals, high school, college. Arrow wouldn't exist becasue Green Arrow was already a character on Smallville. Types of shows will always repeat and they might be better or worse then then previous incarnations.
BtVS isn't the be all and end all of Sci-Fi fantasy TV, TVS has done some things better then BtVS. BtVS did more stories better then TVD did. Game of Thrones is far superior show to Buffy in terms of acting and production, and The West Wing lords over all other TV, just how it goes.

 

[Xin Rong]

It wasn't mentioned in the summaries, doubt it


Think it was a well in the books, locked in a well and eventually found close to "death"


Dont think so

Yes, I think so


Don't know if it was in college, but her werewolf boyfriend left her in the books in either highschool or college


Don't know




Absolutely there are many rip off bits. Like I said BtVS is a much better show, but disregarding elements BtVS reused while pointing out the points that Buffy did first doesn't make sense to me

But my original point was if you explain the show buffy as: A blonde cheerleader falls for a tall dark brooding older man.
She find out he's a vampire and still wants him, now she's in love with a good vampire, who used to be a mass murder, got his humanity back, lived in the streets on animal blood and they date for a while.
The blonde cheerleaders best friend is a girl with red hair, who is a witch.
At one point the blonde main character forces the brooding male vampire to drink her blood. Another time she got dressed up in a costume more of his time period for halloween.
Later another vampire, who's laid back and kinda an ass, shows up as a villain, then starts helping the main blonde character, then falls for her and has to prove he is a good man

Which am I explaining BtVS or TVD books?

The above is a perfect summary of BtVS without mentioning the word slayer or mentioning that the main character in TVD becomes a vampire.

Even if BtVS didn't rip off TVD (Which I dont think it did) it's INSANE to talk about it like it's never ripped off anything else. If it didn't steal from TVD, some of the ideas were so unoriginal that it accidentally ripped off TVD.

Dismissing something for reusing good ideas is stupid, especially when it does them to an entertaining level without being awful.

The idea of dismissing something cuz a show based in a similar setting is crazy. No high school based shows should have their characters get together or break up if thats the case, whats the point they did it on 90210 years ago.
We wouldn't have shows based in hospitals, high school, college. Arrow wouldn't exist becasue Green Arrow was already a character on Smallville. Types of shows will always repeat and they might be better or worse then then previous incarnations.
BtVS isn't the be all and end all of Sci-Fi fantasy TV, TVS has done some things better then BtVS. BtVS did more stories better then TVD did. Game of Thrones is far superior show to Buffy in terms of acting and production, and The West Wing lords over all other TV, just how it goes.

I get your point, Buffy wasn't entirely original, it definitely evolved from the high school genre, and horror genre, but it subverted it and used the positive elements, but it did not steal from them: it was more a commentary on them.

I don't think people are criticising VD for having similar themes and genre to Buffy, the complaints are based on the fact that VD is repeating Buffy scenes/ideas because the writers are copying, not being influenced by, Buffy: which is a fair point.

Your references to GoT and The West Wing aren't really that relevant, firstly because they are opinion based, and also because they're completely different: GoT might be under the general fantasy genre, but it's high fantasy and so far removed from Buffy the connection is tenuous. VD on the other hand is, or should be, an evolution of Buffy/Angel.

Also, Buffy was, and generally remains, as one of, or accoridng to some sources, the most academically discussed TV show of all time, with Babylon 5 being a close contender. The reason being that it was original, even though it utilised genres like the high school film etc. Will VD get the same treatment?

My main point is that people aren't dismissing VD 'cos of its similarity with Buffy, but because it copies/steals Buffy features in unoriginal ways: it rips it off, not all of the time, but in a lot of ways it does and that deserves criticism.

 

[thetopher]

Some of the things you mentioned are really just coincidence- such as the blonde cheerleaders girlfriend being a redhead witch (Willow becomes both in S3 of Buffy) and the villain falling for the cheerleader (that's all the way into S5!). They happen organically over the course of the show- it made sense for the characters to go that way. Somebody wasn't flipping through tVD books taking crib notes, that's just stupid.

I think everybody knows that Buffy stole lots of things from lots of different sources, from pop culture, film and television- especially horror shows. It owes a lot to some things, a lot of iconic shows do. (The X-Files to Kolchak, etc.)
But did it improve upon, add to those things? Hells yes. 🙂

I didn't mean to imply that tVD were inferior to Buffy just because Buffy did them first, that is a stupid, reductive arguement. You have to look at both sources. (And as I've said, I'm unfamiliar with tVD, and don't feel particularly inclined to change that.)
(But as an example I can take Smallville and Arrow, a little early to tell but Arrow's first season is waaay better than Smallville's first, although it does lack the humour/camp factor, but it is much better acted and plotted. Imo the one that came before isn't better.)

There's nothing wrong with using ideas people have used before, it's bound to happen, there are only so many stories you can tell in fiction.
That's the difference between homage and rip-off. There are plenty of films that pay homage to other films (like every Quentin Tarentino movie ever.) without being a rip-off.

The question is: Does tVD add anything to the horror/teen genre or is it pale imitation crap?



Oh, and The West Wing...so not the best thing on television, Overrated. As in Aaron Slorkin.

 

[Xin Rong]

Some of the things you mentioned are really just coincidence- such as the blonde cheerleaders girlfriend being a redhead witch (Willow becomes both in S3 of Buffy) and the villain falling for the cheerleader (that's all the way into S5!). They happen organically over the course of the show- it made sense for the characters to go that way. Somebody wasn't flipping through tVD books taking crib notes, that's just stupid.

I think everybody knows that Buffy stole lots of things from lots of different sources, from pop culture, film and television- especially horror shows. It owes a lot to some things, a lot of iconic shows do. (The X-Files to Kolchak, etc.)
But did it improve upon, add to those things? Hells yes. 🙂

I didn't mean to imply that tVD were inferior to Buffy just because Buffy did them first, that is a stupid, reductive arguement. You have to look at both sources. (And as I've said, I'm unfamiliar with tVD, and don't feel particularly inclined to change that.)
(But as an example I can take Smallville and Arrow, a little early to tell but Arrow's first season is waaay better than Smallville's first, although it does lack the humour/camp factor, but it is much better acted and plotted. Imo the one that came before isn't better.)

There's nothing wrong with using ideas people have used before, it's bound to happen, there are only so many stories you can tell in fiction.
That's the difference between homage and rip-off. There are plenty of films that pay homage to other films (like every Quentin Tarentino movie ever.) without being a rip-off.

The question is: Does tVD add anything to the horror/teen genre or is it pale imitation crap?



Oh, and The West Wing...so not the best thing on television, Overrated. As in Aaron Slorkin.

I think its: 'Pale imitation Crap'

 

[Anya2012]

Well than...
You want a Buffy reboot?
Yes?
Watch Vampire Diaries, the names are completely different but everything else is pretty much the same. If you haven't seen it you can check some articles about TVD copying BTVS.

I found two perfect videos that I wanted to share.
This is the first...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZz89PBE4hM

This next video is short... but the most powerful. I mean sure, everything is copied but look at the acting! Sarah & David are top class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4771fuz0AsM

What do you think?

No it isn't. The vampire diaries is based in a series of books that was written before Buffy was ever made. Look it up.