The Buffy Rip Off Diaries
- Thread starter chasesummers
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thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
There are only so many stories. And there are even less stories about vampires.
The Vampire Diaries did not rip-off Buffy. Rather, I'd argue that the general romantic vampire mythology is practically imbedded in our culture (to started with Dracula) and writers are just picking up on those themes, and re-using, reinventing, and re-imagining them to fit their particular series.
The Vampire Diaries did not rip-off Buffy. Rather, I'd argue that the general romantic vampire mythology is practically imbedded in our culture (to started with Dracula) and writers are just picking up on those themes, and re-using, reinventing, and re-imagining them to fit their particular series.
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
Same applies for many of the rip off things in TVD though.
Like I can't imagine the people in the writers room where like "well Angel was locked in a coffin and dropped into he sea, lets do that", but if you break it down if you need to lock a vampire who can't die away were he absolutely can't get out and wont be found by someone just coming across him dropping them to the bottom of the sea or a lake is a brilliant plan.
Same for the vampire experiments in college storyline, in Buffy it was a government agency secretly maintaining a military presence to take out demons, and they did a little bit of experimenting on demons and "neutering" vampires, in TVD a group of family do experiments on Vampires to try and test the limitations of using vampire blood to cure humans and make Vampires crave vampire blood instead of human.
They are competently separate stories, fundamentally they are about a secret organisation within a college and that is a reoccurring storyline across a number of TV shows and movies.
Defiantly adds, it has a much more developed mythology for Vampires then Buffy did.
Nonsense. Any chance of me taking you seriously just went out the window, West Wing is basically art.
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
And you were respecting my opinion so much before. 😛
Stiil, copying characters (as you implied) is much harder than copying plot. Copying plot can happen a hell of a lot easier, you see a twist on television and go...I've seen that somewhere before. The 'dropping Angel in the ocean' thing...well, I can't judge like I said, but some people certainly seem to see the comparison.
Mind you I've seen the 'blood experiments on vampires' done in Tru Blood recently, it doesn't seem like a startlingly original idea.
(Hell, Ultraviolet, a British vampire series, did that back in the early 90's)
Oh, and again, about The West Wing...there is no such thing as absolute truth. This is an absolute truth. 😀
(Plus The Newsroom was so bad, I was so disappointed with Aaron Slorkin after that garbage. 🙁 )
chasesummers
Cordy Lives
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2013
- Messages
- 338
TVD novel was released September 1991, Buffy the movie was released End of July 1992, almost a year later. The idea was already there, I highly doubt Joss went reading TVD.
Haven't read the books, but you can't deny how certain scenes are taken from/inspired from Buffy. I don't know what there is on the novels, love triangles? vampires? Sure, those days they too werent so original. Buffy with female empowerment? Also done before by shows like Xena Warrior Princess which I feel Buffy is very inspired from.
In order to create you have to be inspired so I have no doubt Buffy is inspired by many many thing by many different writers, most importantly Joss, he reflected many of his experiences, views & ideas through Buffy.
Since I can't judge TVD book I can only say that Buffy deserves the credit for being the successful show it is today and helped these newer shows today to go on small & even big screens.
Buffy did it right and that's why Buffy lives.
Haven't read the books, but you can't deny how certain scenes are taken from/inspired from Buffy. I don't know what there is on the novels, love triangles? vampires? Sure, those days they too werent so original. Buffy with female empowerment? Also done before by shows like Xena Warrior Princess which I feel Buffy is very inspired from.
In order to create you have to be inspired so I have no doubt Buffy is inspired by many many thing by many different writers, most importantly Joss, he reflected many of his experiences, views & ideas through Buffy.
Since I can't judge TVD book I can only say that Buffy deserves the credit for being the successful show it is today and helped these newer shows today to go on small & even big screens.
Buffy did it right and that's why Buffy lives.
thetopher
Agreed with everything you just said. Well put.
Still a Scoobie
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BuffyElevated
Scooby
I love how, even though it's been presented numerous times that the TVD books were written first, TVD is still "ripping off" BtVS. And mostly in the eyes of people who don't even watch the show...
I get that you people love BtVS. Shit, so do I. We all do, or we wouldn't be here. But your lack of ability to see what's right in front of you cracks me up.
The truth of the matter is, NOTHING out there is purely original. Nothing. Not a single show out there is completely, 100% original; everything has parts of it that have been inspired by something else, whether intentional or not. Yes, there is a lot of TVD and Buffy that is similar, but that's expected when they're both supernatural dramas focusing on vampires.
Get over it. Both shows have plenty of fans, and both have run for plenty of seasons, so both verses must be doing something right. Just because you have undying loyalty for one doesn't mean you have to hate the other and claim that it's a rip off.
I get that you people love BtVS. Shit, so do I. We all do, or we wouldn't be here. But your lack of ability to see what's right in front of you cracks me up.
The truth of the matter is, NOTHING out there is purely original. Nothing. Not a single show out there is completely, 100% original; everything has parts of it that have been inspired by something else, whether intentional or not. Yes, there is a lot of TVD and Buffy that is similar, but that's expected when they're both supernatural dramas focusing on vampires.
Get over it. Both shows have plenty of fans, and both have run for plenty of seasons, so both verses must be doing something right. Just because you have undying loyalty for one doesn't mean you have to hate the other and claim that it's a rip off.
Black Eye Guy
totally
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
The movie was still released AFTER the TVS books, and most of the stuff in my list of stuff TVD did first were all stuff directly related to the show, the only thing thats the same between the books and the movie is the blonde main character, there is no vampire love triangle or any of the other stuff, so it's irrelevant.
This!!
The amount of people in this thread that have basically said 'how dare TVD steal from Buffy' then say 'it's okay for Buffy to steal ideas as it was inspired by..." is totally hypocritical.
Fact is the stuff TVD used is different it's not a 100% carbon copy, which means it's exactly the same as what Buffy did.
And I'm sorry if you haven't watched all the episodes of TVD and Buffy your opinion really doesn't matter, if you haven't read the book you can't say you don't think Buffy stole the ideas. If you've watched a healthy number of episodes and don't like the show, thats perfectly valid.
But basically most of you saw Buffy first so are giving that the originality credit in your heads and blasting TVD for reusing ideas Buffy did, but forgiving Buffy for reusing ideas.
This!!
The amount of people in this thread that have basically said 'how dare TVD steal from Buffy' then say 'it's okay for Buffy to steal ideas as it was inspired by..." is totally hypocritical.
Fact is the stuff TVD used is different it's not a 100% carbon copy, which means it's exactly the same as what Buffy did.
And I'm sorry if you haven't watched all the episodes of TVD and Buffy your opinion really doesn't matter, if you haven't read the book you can't say you don't think Buffy stole the ideas. If you've watched a healthy number of episodes and don't like the show, thats perfectly valid.
But basically most of you saw Buffy first so are giving that the originality credit in your heads and blasting TVD for reusing ideas Buffy did, but forgiving Buffy for reusing ideas.
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
To be honest, I don't think anyone has sounded that outraged or defensive of Buffy. In fact some people on this thread, me included, have made the same comments as you, that nothing is really truly original, so we have to careful when making blanket assertions about the quality of shows.
The first vampire show I watched when I was younger was 'Ultraviolet' which was a British vampire television show, and was actually startlingly original, dark, adult and graphic, and came out of nowhere. It was a truly modern take on vampires, and it is still one of the best vampire shows I've seen to date.
The I saw Buffy (the show, not the movie), which came at the whole vampire thing in a post-modern, knowing, tongue-in-cheek kind of way, I thought it was brilliant in a totally different way. It didn't owe anything to Ultraviolet (obviously, because this was a little, obscure tv show) and felt original in its take on vampires.
Then, later, I watched Tru Blood and this was also very orginal. It wasn't particularly good, or adult, or anything that it's tend to fan assert. But it was orginal, well-acted and interesting for the first couple of seasons.
I know very little about tVD (as I have said a few times) so have tried to resrict my comments to things I've actually observed. Others on this thread have, and feel comfortable comparing the two. Fine.
But to assert that the two shows copied from other things therefore both shows are exactly the same quality is false logic and a bad argument.
For example The Magnificent Seven and The Seven Samurai? Same basic movie, you could call the former a rip-off, or a homage or an adaptation. The quality of the cimematography, acting and script lend most people to dub it a homage and worthy of study on its own merits.
Now take 'Snakes On A Plane' and 'Snakes On A Train' (by Asylum)- same basic movie, right? You can debate the quality of the former, but the latter has very little to recommend it because its a cash-in.
Now before you start with the histrionics again, I am not saying that tVD is a rip-off or a cash-in (although it does suffer from the fact that post-Twilight' it's in a saturated 'young adult' market- which isn't the shows fault, nessessarily), not at all.
I am making the point that you can take similar materials and make markedly different things with them, dependant on the quality of the writing. This is where the debate has moved to, imo.
chasesummers
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Still a Scoobie
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chasesummers
Cordy Lives
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2013
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- 338
I appreciate how much input this forum has recevied as I personally wanted to discuss it for a while now.
The title might have pushed some peoples buttons (mainly TVD fans) and it's OK, I have no control on how serious people can take it but I'd like to point out that there was no intention to basically... piss people off. I have no regret with the title as I believe that the obvious scenes in the videos I shared are simply copy & paste (lacking acting) and this feels lazy personally. Regarding the acting, it's just a personal oppinion, nothing else.
Yes, all shows are not purely original. Each one is created through an inspiration and that personal touch makes it original in its own way. Joss Whedon said Buffy was born because he felt sorry for the young blonde girl in horror movies, that idea started with the movie and was carried through the TV show, he wanted to; in my view, release that feminine energy out there which was being compressed, a lot! That idea is his personal inspiration, it makes Buffy - Buffy! and not another Xena Warrior Princess with vampires because with Xena, they too wanted to make a feminine hero but the root idea is different. This applies to mostly... all shows.
I now realise that, yeah! no show is purely original; they are all recycled, but it's the intention rooted in the show which makes it stand out. Even if its strictly aimed for business.
Getting back to what I wanted to share:
Yes, I watched Buffy first and looked into TVD later, I agree that some people have a personal preference with the first universe they fall in love with.
The Vampire Diaries no doubt about it is also original in its own ways, it has a different root but placed in the same format like similar shows,
So there's no ripping off cause if there was it would be like ripping off a rip off 🙂 especially in this case, both BTVS & TVD are themed the same/placed the same way but have different root, which is what makes one like a show and not the other.
However, with all that said and done... I can't help not sharing this :3
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onUhivQ-OuU"]Vampire Diaries 3x06 Damon Elena " Come on Buffy" - YouTube[/ame]
Please, nothing to be taken seriously! It's shared with all the friendliness! 😛
The title might have pushed some peoples buttons (mainly TVD fans) and it's OK, I have no control on how serious people can take it but I'd like to point out that there was no intention to basically... piss people off. I have no regret with the title as I believe that the obvious scenes in the videos I shared are simply copy & paste (lacking acting) and this feels lazy personally. Regarding the acting, it's just a personal oppinion, nothing else.
Yes, all shows are not purely original. Each one is created through an inspiration and that personal touch makes it original in its own way. Joss Whedon said Buffy was born because he felt sorry for the young blonde girl in horror movies, that idea started with the movie and was carried through the TV show, he wanted to; in my view, release that feminine energy out there which was being compressed, a lot! That idea is his personal inspiration, it makes Buffy - Buffy! and not another Xena Warrior Princess with vampires because with Xena, they too wanted to make a feminine hero but the root idea is different. This applies to mostly... all shows.
I now realise that, yeah! no show is purely original; they are all recycled, but it's the intention rooted in the show which makes it stand out. Even if its strictly aimed for business.
Getting back to what I wanted to share:
Yes, I watched Buffy first and looked into TVD later, I agree that some people have a personal preference with the first universe they fall in love with.
The Vampire Diaries no doubt about it is also original in its own ways, it has a different root but placed in the same format like similar shows,
So there's no ripping off cause if there was it would be like ripping off a rip off 🙂 especially in this case, both BTVS & TVD are themed the same/placed the same way but have different root, which is what makes one like a show and not the other.
However, with all that said and done... I can't help not sharing this :3
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onUhivQ-OuU"]Vampire Diaries 3x06 Damon Elena " Come on Buffy" - YouTube[/ame]
Please, nothing to be taken seriously! It's shared with all the friendliness! 😛
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Still a Scoobie
[No message]
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
I always think more of a show it can be genre-savvy and poke fun at itself.
Makes me think better of tVD anyway. Thanks for sharing. 🙂
Makes me think better of tVD anyway. Thanks for sharing. 🙂
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
Thats a load of crap, lets be honest.
Firstly I dont think anyone in this thread has said that BtVS and TVDs quality are the same, BtVS is in a completely different league as TVD.
TVD was 100% a cash in on the Twilight phenomenon, I'm also pretty sure they have said that, people wanted vampire stories they had one to tell.
The debate isn't about the quality of TVD most of you have said you've seen very little of TVD, so how could you all be commenting on the quality?
Like I said you happen to watch a couple of minuets of Beer Bad, Ted, Some Assembly Required, catch a few of the terrible fight scenes in BtVS or one of the Buffy/Angel Buffy /Spike overly romantic scenes and you could totally throw the series out as a pile of crap. Out of context you completely miss the point of certain scenes.
So I dont see how people that haven't watched a good chuck of TVD, dont know the plots, the characters and back story could possibly discuss the quality of the show.
The primary part of this thread has been discussing a list of stuff Buffy did "first" that TVD have copied from them.
People that didn't watch Buffy, dismiss it cuz of the name or as 'twilight crap' all the time, thats the same thing thats happening here, you only see certain scenes of BtVS or any of the Buffy/Angel promotional material and you can totally draw the connection between Twilight.
Not liking the show is fine, but dismissing it cuz it's a rip-off is stupid. It's not a show thats as fantastical written, and there are some annoying characters, but TVD is entertaining and had BtVS been on for another 2 years, going off what they've done with Spike, I might have stopped watching as I find him incredibly annoying. I would trade any of the horribly annoying TVD characters for that blonde waste of screen-time any day.
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
But that's what you've been saying.
You say that both Buffy and tVD do the basic same thing, rip-off other things. You're therefore offering up a comparison of the results, of both the shows- ergo the quality of the finished product.
You've also said critizing tVD is bad and then gone on to rag on Buffy, and saying that people who think Buffy is 'original' or 'perfect' are stupid and hypocritical.
Which is fine, but I don't think anybody here has ever said that Buffy was perfect.
My arguments a little more nuanced, I think it depends what the new show adds to the general overall quality of genre shows. All shows copy/recycle/critique/rip-off to some degree, that's a universal truth.
And some people here (who have actually watched tVD, and, amazingly, hated it) are saying that the show is glossy, hollow and badly acted. They're saying its not worth watching not because its unoriginal per se, but because it just doesn't add anything.
The argument has clearly moved on from just simply 'which one came first'.
I'm paraphrasing but that seems, to me, to be the general reason why these people don't like it.
Still a Scoobie
Spot on, imo.
chasesummers
thumbs up
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
Thats not what I'm saying, if the reason someone dismisses a show is because they think it copies another show, I pointed out thats stupid, as it's something Buffy has done.
How have I said the two are comparable when right from the start of the thread I've said Buffy is better?
One again, not at all what I said. Sorry to use you as an example Still a Scoobie, but SaS is the only person who seems to have seen a lot of TVD diaries and not liked it, and I said that was perfectly fine, that is a respectable opinion.
You yourself said you don't know the show, haven't seen a lot of it, don't know the plot, so presumably don't know the characters - that I have a problem with, whereas SAS's opinion is an informed opinion, yours isn't, yet you've dismissed TVD and said it isn't in the same league as Buffy, you've said it's quite clear TVD has stolen from BtVS, but then excused stuff Buffy has done that TVD did first as coincidence and stuff that just happens over the course of the show.
So you haven't seen TVD but you seem to know that the stuff TVD did isn't a coincidence and didn't happen organically over the course of the show, it's just a rip off.
It really isn't, your argument is: I don't have to see or know anything about TVD to know it stole ideas from Buffy. Thats not nuanced, it's bias.
Right so becasue 2 people who've actually seen both shows say it's a rip off, it's a rip off?
In this thread:
7 people said they didn't like TVD, of those 2 said they watched the first few episodes and didn't watch any further, 3 of you don't seem to know anything about it, 1 says they've seen a fair amount of it and don't like it and 1 used to like it but has given up defending it.
So 2 people have actually watched both shows and don't like it.
5 people said they like both
So since you haven't seen the show, if you're basing your ideas off the general vibe of the thread and not your bias you should like the show, more people like it then don't.
Yeah the argument moved away from 'which one came first' when someone pointed out TVD came first, and suddenly points about something a show did second were allowed to be coincidence instead of rip offs.
Still a Scoobie
no worries about using me as an example, I'm liking being known as SAS. :)
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
Right, fine. From the top.
The people here don't hate tVD just because it's unoriginal, they hate it because they don't like it. They've seen it and dismissed it. They think it has nothing new/interesting to say, that's what I've read, on this thread.
So what if they've only seen a few episodes to make a judgement, it clearly didn't grab their interest. Now that's not a failing unique to tVD, but its still a failing that points to lack of something on the show. substance? maybe even lack of originality.
And if you critizes two shows for doing the same thing, despite the different results, then you are making a comparison- that's your intent. Your argument has changed from 'of course Buffy is better' to arguing about things tVD did better than Buffy. (vampire mythology, etc) You're making a direct quality comparison, then getting upset when people point out that Buffy is in a different league, quality-wise.
All shows copy. What matters is the results. Buffy is an iconic show. Not perfect, but it was a trend-setting, as genre shows go. It entered the public consciousness, people didn't pick apart what was unoriginal about it didn't matter, because it did the original stuff so well.
Witty scripts, good casting, plot structure, season arcs, big bads, monster as metaphor for growing up/highschool, pop culture references, pretty much inventing a new way of speaking. (Joss/Buffy-speak)
Now one at a time, none of these are unique, some aren't even original. But taken all together, its a strong arguement for saying it didn't need to crib ideas for books most people hadn't even heard of before the tv show came along.
(As you seem to keep on implying- which seems rather far-fetched. And I'm including your so called 'examples'.)
Looking at tVd I struggle to distinguish it from a lot of other tweenage shows (or Twilight) that I've seen, both vampire and non-vampire based. (I've actaually defending tVD against people who called it just another vampire show, that's unfair...see, nuanced. 😉)
But it may very well be, I don't know either way.
My argument, if you read all my posts, has changed from what it was at the start, so has yours. The difference is my argument changed into one that actually makes sense.
Maybe you can make a list of orginal things that tVD has done/does to seperate it from just being another glossy teen show?
The people here don't hate tVD just because it's unoriginal, they hate it because they don't like it. They've seen it and dismissed it. They think it has nothing new/interesting to say, that's what I've read, on this thread.
So what if they've only seen a few episodes to make a judgement, it clearly didn't grab their interest. Now that's not a failing unique to tVD, but its still a failing that points to lack of something on the show. substance? maybe even lack of originality.
And if you critizes two shows for doing the same thing, despite the different results, then you are making a comparison- that's your intent. Your argument has changed from 'of course Buffy is better' to arguing about things tVD did better than Buffy. (vampire mythology, etc) You're making a direct quality comparison, then getting upset when people point out that Buffy is in a different league, quality-wise.
All shows copy. What matters is the results. Buffy is an iconic show. Not perfect, but it was a trend-setting, as genre shows go. It entered the public consciousness, people didn't pick apart what was unoriginal about it didn't matter, because it did the original stuff so well.
Witty scripts, good casting, plot structure, season arcs, big bads, monster as metaphor for growing up/highschool, pop culture references, pretty much inventing a new way of speaking. (Joss/Buffy-speak)
Now one at a time, none of these are unique, some aren't even original. But taken all together, its a strong arguement for saying it didn't need to crib ideas for books most people hadn't even heard of before the tv show came along.
(As you seem to keep on implying- which seems rather far-fetched. And I'm including your so called 'examples'.)
Looking at tVd I struggle to distinguish it from a lot of other tweenage shows (or Twilight) that I've seen, both vampire and non-vampire based. (I've actaually defending tVD against people who called it just another vampire show, that's unfair...see, nuanced. 😉)
But it may very well be, I don't know either way.
My argument, if you read all my posts, has changed from what it was at the start, so has yours. The difference is my argument changed into one that actually makes sense.
Maybe you can make a list of orginal things that tVD has done/does to seperate it from just being another glossy teen show?
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
Who has said that? I already said 1 person has said that, as only two people have watched a lot of the show so actually knows if it does or does not add something.
One person also agreed with me in the area of they explained their mythology well
How am I getting upset when people point out Buffy is in a different league, IF I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT FROM THE START??
You didn't say that in this thread so your argument in this thread wasn't nuanced
Exactly! You have no idea what your talking about.
I've reread your posts, I dont think your argument has changed? How's it different now?
Can you give me a list of things you've said at the start of the thread that are different now?
No thanks. Like I've said all along, I haven't been debating the quality of TVD, I've been arguing against the notion that someone who hasn't seen the show can pass it off as a rip off.
If you watched the first 3 episodes, before it changed direction, and hated it, thats fine, I did the same. The show doesn't get good till mid way through season 1.
I've never said TVD is a fantastic show, I've said it's entertaining. You seem to get confused about what my argument actually is.
I'm not a huge TVD fan, I dont think the show is better than Buffy. One area I said I liked was they explored the Vampire mythology, becasue they created their own, I didn't say it was a better mythology then Buffys. I said I liked that the built their own mythology from the ground up, while BtVS just relied on vampire mythology that was already out there.
I said BtVS didn't need to do that as BtVS had a slayer mythology to build, so wasn't focused on vampires, TVD is focused on Vampires so added a whole new take on Vampire mythology.
So apart from saying I like they took the time to create a new vampire mythology, none of my points have been about the quality of the shows.
What is stupid to me, is that people that haven't seen the show say it's a rip off. Google TVD rips off BtVS and you find countless arguments where people say TVD stole the vampire love triangle, they stole the brooding vampire and they stole the cocky bad boy vampire - all three of those things are from the books, before Buffy!
Most people that are commenting on this, are uninformed. If you haven't seen a large amount of the show but think you can comment on the quality, that's stupid.
Two people mentioned they watched the first couple of episode didn't like it, gave up and so couldn't comment on if it ripped off - thats all I'm saying, anyone that hasn't watched it but still says it rips off Buffy are just talking crap cuz they like BtVS better.
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
Fine, lets recap.
My first post- I pointed out the thing about the tv show books being based on books.
Then, from the clips I said that it looked like generic teen show crap- judging by the acting.
The, after your post, I corrected myself- saying I agreed that you can't really judge something from five minutes of clips of 20 minutes of show. I then, IN THE SAME POST, said that the only reason tVD was compared to Buffy was the vampire angle, unfairly- read the goddam post! 😡 (for christ's sake, looking back you even agreed with my point, that's how my position changed.)
Then you started saying in what ways tVD was better than Buffy-about how tVD explores it world more, how you preffered its mythology.
Then I commented about how I prefered the more vague Buffy mythos, to some other shows I've seen (didmn't mention tVD at all.)
Then you laid into Buffy in a big way, accusing it of ripping off the books (which is still a silly assertion, btw, Buffy rips off/critiques a bunch of things, some obsure books- sorry, nope.)
I pointed out , just as you did in the opposite way, that your examples could just be coincidence.
I then said I didn't mean to imply that tVD was inferior just because it was after Buffy, that's a false argument, and I said that at the time.
Then you were rude because I thought The West Wing was overrated. 🙄
Then the argument moved on for a page or so...
Then, suddenly, you got ridiculously defensive because 'everybody' was attacking tVD, when in reality most of us had moved on and were having a discussion about how most shows gather inspiration from other sources.
Then I made comparisons about other vampire shows that I've seen- 'Ultraviolet' 'True Blood' (still not commenting on tVD, because I haven't seen it)
You again assert that my argument is crap/nonsense. 😡
You say how you don't compare the two shows, and then to go on and compare the two shows! Saying how if somebody watched Beer Bad, or Ted, or Some Assembly Required they'd say it was reductive crap, just like we are with tVD, apparently.
You have, all along, being comparing and contrasting the two shows, saying that tVD is better at some stuff. That would be fine, its a valid opinion.
But I'm getting tired of you being dismissive and rude with you're counter-arguments. You're sounding like somebody who's too far wrapped up in defending the show you say you don't even like so much. 😕
Oh, and btw, Buffy only ever had a vampire love triangle in the final two episodes, and it took up about 15 minutes of screen time.
It didn't bang on about it for four plus seasons.
You know what, I'm tired of this argument, I doubt that this show is even worth the small amount of discussion its been given already.
My first post- I pointed out the thing about the tv show books being based on books.
Then, from the clips I said that it looked like generic teen show crap- judging by the acting.
The, after your post, I corrected myself- saying I agreed that you can't really judge something from five minutes of clips of 20 minutes of show. I then, IN THE SAME POST, said that the only reason tVD was compared to Buffy was the vampire angle, unfairly- read the goddam post! 😡 (for christ's sake, looking back you even agreed with my point, that's how my position changed.)
Then you started saying in what ways tVD was better than Buffy-about how tVD explores it world more, how you preffered its mythology.
Then I commented about how I prefered the more vague Buffy mythos, to some other shows I've seen (didmn't mention tVD at all.)
Then you laid into Buffy in a big way, accusing it of ripping off the books (which is still a silly assertion, btw, Buffy rips off/critiques a bunch of things, some obsure books- sorry, nope.)
I pointed out , just as you did in the opposite way, that your examples could just be coincidence.
I then said I didn't mean to imply that tVD was inferior just because it was after Buffy, that's a false argument, and I said that at the time.
Then you were rude because I thought The West Wing was overrated. 🙄
Then the argument moved on for a page or so...
Then, suddenly, you got ridiculously defensive because 'everybody' was attacking tVD, when in reality most of us had moved on and were having a discussion about how most shows gather inspiration from other sources.
Then I made comparisons about other vampire shows that I've seen- 'Ultraviolet' 'True Blood' (still not commenting on tVD, because I haven't seen it)
You again assert that my argument is crap/nonsense. 😡
You say how you don't compare the two shows, and then to go on and compare the two shows! Saying how if somebody watched Beer Bad, or Ted, or Some Assembly Required they'd say it was reductive crap, just like we are with tVD, apparently.
You have, all along, being comparing and contrasting the two shows, saying that tVD is better at some stuff. That would be fine, its a valid opinion.
But I'm getting tired of you being dismissive and rude with you're counter-arguments. You're sounding like somebody who's too far wrapped up in defending the show you say you don't even like so much. 😕
Oh, and btw, Buffy only ever had a vampire love triangle in the final two episodes, and it took up about 15 minutes of screen time.
It didn't bang on about it for four plus seasons.
You know what, I'm tired of this argument, I doubt that this show is even worth the small amount of discussion its been given already.
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
Can you read?
To quote myself:
I never said Buffy stole the ideas, I said that a lot of the points people were making were negated by the fact that TVS diaries did them first - That doesn't mean I think buffy stole them, it means people can't complain about the Angel/Stefan comparison, since he was that way in the book. Maybe you're having a problem with the nuance of the argument? 🙂
By the way, those "obscure" books you mention, where a New York Times best seller when they were released in 1991, I wouldn't expect you to know that since you know nothing about what your talking about, I haven't read the books either, but a quick google search helped to enlighten me.
You can't seem to grasp that even though I'm deafening TVD I dont think it's a better show, even though I've said that countless times.
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
You've contradicted yourself before, one other post you wrote was all about how the books and Buffy were similar- it was a lazy point then, as it is now.
Btw, even I don't think tVD ripped off Buffy, I've said this again and again, but I guess you don't listen to a nuanced argument either.
Hnm, brushed right over the rude comments with some rude, how original. 😉
If I don't know what I'm talking about a subject I tend to realise it and correct myself in my very next post. As I have proved that I have done int this very thread, right at the start.
Plus, others have agreed with my posts, again and again. So they don't seem to share your (again, rude) assertion.
Maybe the books were popular in '91-92, but how about '98, when Buffy actually came out? 🙂
You seem to have this theory, that you go back and forth on, that the writers of Buffy combed through every vampire book that was written previously.
You can't counter one ridiculous argument with another, its self-defeating as your proving again and again. 🙂
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
Yeah it was lazy to do some actual research on stuff TVD did first before Buffy to point out that eben though Buffy didn't copy TVD it's not exactly original.
Thanks, I'm really good at it 😀
Again, I dont think BtVS stole the ideas (maybe if I keep saying it, it will sink in!), but I was just helping you to become a bit more enlightened on some information you had wrong. You're welcome.
Nope wrong again, did you get that from the point where I said things done in TVD can't be copied from BtVS if they were in the source material first, or the point were I explicitly said I dont think Buffy stole ideas from TVD books??
I would ask you to quote me where I said Buffy copied TVD, but you don't seem to read posts so there's no point. Also I'm bored of arguments you make up that I said so I'm done discussing it with you