The Great Buffy Redemption Debate

Buffy Summers

Buffy Summers

Yataro
Staff member
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
35,079
Location
The City of Angels
Sineya
Okay guys - debate time. For this debate the topic will be:

"Which character from Buffy the Vampire Slayer seasons one through seven most deserves to be redeemed for past 'sins'?"

These are the teams made of those who signed up (Miffed67 and Dzhugashvili, you both posted in the thread but didn't specifically say you were signing up, so if you would like to participate please pm me and I will add you.):

Team One:
Lyri
jesterjay
Angels baby101

Team Two:
SpikedBuffy
*charmed slayer*
postmortem

  • Each team will pick a character to debate on behalf of.
  • Team One will choose first, and they must post it here.
  • Team Two will open the debate, Team One will close it.
  • Each member of the team will be given the opportunity to speak, each team alternating members (person 1 from team two will go first, followed by person 1 from team one and so forth).

Each team should get together via pm/messenger/email and first decide which character they will use, then teams can discuss their arguments, the order they will post, etc.

After characters are picked Team Two may open the debate whenever they are ready.
 
....hello? Are you guys there Team one?

And team two members...how do you want to coordinate? by instant messenger or pm?
 
ok, we've decided on which character we're gonna debate for, and we've been discussing about what we want to say, so what happens now? who posts first? me?
 
I'm confused, and so is my team...

Are we now debating on whether or not we think she can be redeemed, or are we picking our own character and debating this character being redeemed over Faith?

Anyone know?
 
^ I think, you guys have to open the debate, saying why the character you picked, deserves to be redeemed for past sins, more so than faith.
 
Each team will pick a character to debate on behalf of.
Team One will choose first, and they must post it here.
Team Two will open the debate, Team One will close it.
Each member of the team will be given the opportunity to speak, each team alternating members (person 1 from team two will go first, followed by person 1 from team one and so forth).
Click to expand...

so here we go - we picked Faith to defend as most redeemed...then you choose a character to defend.

Then Team two starts while we close it off.

So what character have you picked to defend as most redeemed Team Two?
 
"Which character from Buffy the Vampire Slayer seasons one through seven most deserves to be redeemed for past 'sins'?"
Click to expand...

is the topic. Team One has picked Faith as the most deserving of redemption, Team Two should pick another character to debate most deserves to be redeemed.
 
Got it... I'll confer with my team members and get the ball rolling as soon as we have decided! 🙂
 
Announcing Team two's position on regarding the character to be redeemed for past sins: Angel.

We feel that even though Angel is somewhat considered a "Good Guy" he has still has a long road of personal redemption. His time and effort put into keeping himself on the straight and narrow with a few slip-ups (as seen on the shows) have proven that he is dedicated. More so than Faith, he has proven himself time and time again to be there for everyone around him, even when he is not necessarily wanted.
 
Z
zombie.apparatus
nicely said!
P
postmortem
[No message]
see, we disagree with this. Angel and Spike both have an excuse...'Oh, i didn't have a soul when i did that, so i can't be held accountable'
it gets them put of a lot of hassel and bother, and people automatically forgive them.
Faith doesn't have this easy-out claus. she had a soul throughout everything evil thing she did, which means she has to work harder for her redemption, even though it should mean that it's a little easier. no one's willing to let her make up for her past, she has to prove herself over and over again, to everyone, especially Buffy.
Faith's road to redemption was, and still is, harder than anyones. Spike and Angel had their friends to help them through their journey, but Faith chose to be locked up, in jail, away from everyone she knows. She could easily have escaped the police, and the prison where she was held, on more than one occasion. but she never did...until something worth fighting for came along.
Faith had the hardest redemption of them all...and the most fulfilling.
 
I know that my next team member is supposed to post here, but I have to interject something that I'm sure my team will support me on.

I cannot remember a time that Angel stated that he is not to be held accountable for the things he did without a soul. In fact, if memory serves me correct, the things that Angel did when he did not have a soul are the things that haunt him the most.
 
i wasn't talking about Angel...i was talking about the people around him. yeah, i guess i didn't explain myself properly. sorry.
everyone else seems to use that as an excuse. i can recall Buffy at least saying something like 'But you didn't have a soul then'
 
Actually I can recall a few times in Angel where he - to defend himself - stated that he didn't have a Soul.

"But I didn't have a soul then" I'm different now...yada yada

- As a matter of fact (and I am totally breaking protocol on the you go we go thing here - sorry about that) Angel even has his guise of Angelius to Angel that can cover it up.

No no It's Angel not Angelius. Almost two completely different people, whereas Faith has to deal with her struggle by her lonesome with absolutely no detatchment, including the time she was Buffy - the climax where she realized she had to change
 
i really hope im on the right track here, first time debate here 🙂

jesterjay, just because Angel went between having a soul and not having a soul doesn’t make him two different people. Faith DID have a soul, so she had choices. Angelus didn’t have a soul, he was a brutal killer yes, but look how many deeds he has done in his new life (Angel) with a soul. He is using his soul to help people. Faith is a slayer, she was given the power to help people and then she went and used it against innocent people. I think Angel went through a lot and aside from the fact he was once evil and deserved to be off the face of the planet, he earnt his place and his purpose back.

Angel and Spike have the right to use that excuse. A soul is probably the most valuable and precious thing a human could have, and Angel’s was torn away from him when he was turned. And even though he got his soul back, he is still a vampire and he still dedicates his life to helping the lives of innocent people, so that says something. Look at Faith, yes she has a soul and she has had a rough past but she had a choice in what she had done and lost everyone’s trust over and time again so therefore she has to prove herself to be trust worthy.

Lyri said:
see, we disagree with this. Angel and Spike both have an excuse...'Oh, i didn't have a soul when i did that, so i can't be held accountable'
it gets them put of a lot of hassel and bother, and people automatically forgive them.
Faith doesn't have this easy-out claus. she had a soul throughout everything evil thing she did, which means she has to work harder for her redemption, even though it should mean that it's a little easier. no one's willing to let her make up for her past, she has to prove herself over and over again, to everyone, especially Buffy.
Faith's road to redemption was, and still is, harder than anyones. Spike and Angel had their friends to help them through their journey, but Faith chose to be locked up, in jail, away from everyone she knows. She could easily have escaped the police, and the prison where she was held, on more than one occasion. but she never did...until something worth fighting for came along.
Faith had the hardest redemption of them all...and the most fulfilling.
Click to expand...

Faith’s road to redemption wasn’t as hard as Angel’s. Yes, you are right. Faith decided herself to be locked up, in jail away from everyone and living with strangers. But she chose to stay there because she had no real friends, she didn’t deserve to be with the scoobies and she didn’t have thousands of screams that haunted Angel because of all the innocent people he had brutally murdered in the past and suffered forever onwards. Angel has to live with a soul and suffer; he suffers everyday from what he has done in the past. I think that is a pretty fair reason to why Angel’s redemption was harder than Faith’s, he has to live his way through pain, Faith on the other hand is so very closed up and just uses violence for a way out. The easy way out of everything in this world.

The fact that Angel went to a slayer was risky enough, but he did it for the greater good and a chance to redeem himself worthy enough to be one of the heroes in this world, and saying goodbye to Angelus.
 
See everyone thinks of Faith comming into her road of redemption starting in the angel episode Five by Five but really we seen her start to break down back in sunnydale when she switched bodies with Buffy...I mean the girl went to a darker side then most people know and fought her way out of it. She saw herself for what she was and she wanted to beat it out of herself, the only real reason she took the job to kill angel in L.A is the hope that he would kill her.. to stop the pain of knowing she killed those people. She did this BY HERSELF she realized she'd done wrong, so she herself with no ones help or support put herself in Jail to atone what she'd done, and the moment she was really needed to help out people who truely never wanted her around she did... with no questions or complaints. Angel took years... centries to do that... He hid from people until wistler came to him and showed him Buffy... Angel himself baiscally said he loved her from the moment he saw her.. so really Most would say he helped her outta love. Not for the greater good. Honestly if it weren't for Buffy would he have become the hero he was meant to be? Or would he still be cowarding in a corner.The truth is Faith is a much stronger willed person then angel... Angel always had a friend to help him along his path but Faith had no one.. No real reason to fight.. but still she did. Why? Because it was the right thing to do and she knew it.
 
I see your point here in some aspects...let me ask you a question.

You say that the only reason Angel has become was he is comes from his love Buffy. He became good for her, not for the greater good. That without Buffy's help, he would've been still cowarding in the alley.

Well, then, without Angel's help, where would Faith be now? If he hadn't shown her mercy and given her help, would Faith have been able to take that step towards 'redemption'? If she only made the choice to go to jail and serve her time because Angel stopped her, then hasn't she only begun her reformation for the greater good of herself also?
 
No, because Faith took the job from W&H to kill Angel because she thought she could get him to kill her first, thus putting to rest all the things she had done, and stopping her from doing anything more. Faith sought her redemption herself, but she thought the only way to stop was for her to die. the only thing Angel did was convince Faith there was other ways for her to go about her redemption, that she didn't have to die to make things right.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom