The Passion of the Christ

Yes exactly. And what I thought the film did well was show that not all the people in a certain group felt the same way. Some were for, some against. Some thought he was innocent, some guilty. That it wasn't black and white so to speak.

As for the religious beliefs of Gibson senior and junior - I think they may very blame the Jews for killing Jesus. However, I don't think he put that into the film. So yes, reserve judgement and then let us know what you think 😉
 
I received this in an e-mail, and I thought it was another interesting view point:

"As we have said many times, our disagreement is not with Christian churches, nor with the Gospels. Our disagreement is with Mel Gibson whose own personal embellishments of the Gospels stereotype and denigrate the masses of Jews who were not followers of Jesus, while at the same time whitewash Pontius Pilate, who crucified a quarter of a million Jews and who was recalled to Rome by Caesar five years later for his brutality."

- Rabbi Marvin Hier, Wiesenthal Center Dean and Founder

"We will...continue on the path of friendship and closeness. We will continue our strong support for the State of Israel. We will not let our Jewish friends down in their time of need. We condemn unequivocally the cancer of anti-Semitism. We reject as unchristian with all the power we can muster any assertion that Jews collectively bare exclusive responsibility for the death of Christ...We will speak out against hatred of Jews...and we will declare loud and clear that we will not allow bigotry to drive a wedge between us."

- Pastor Ted Haggard, President of the National Association of Evangelical Christians


As Mel Gibson's controversial film, The Passion of the Christ opens in movie theaters this week in the United States, and then shortly thereafter in Canada, Europe, and the rest of the world, the Simon Wiesenthal Center has been one of the leading vocal critics of the film because of its stereotypical negative portrayal of Jews and sympathetic portrayal of Roman authorities that could, in turn, fuel antisemitism around the world.


In last June's Los Angeles Times editorial piece, Mel's Passion, Rabbi Marvin Hier wrote, "Gibson should consider the political context before bringing out his film. Globally, antisemitism is at its highest peak since the end of World War II. Synagogues and Jewish schools have been firebombed and Jews beaten on the streets of France and Belgium. According to some recent polls, 17% of Americans (up from 12% five years ago) hold to political and economic stereotypes about Jews; 37% hold Jews responsible for the death of Jesus. On the Internet as well as in print media around the world, the new demonization of Israelis as Nazi-like oppressors is fusing with the old libel of the Jews as "Christ killers." A cartoon in the Italian newspaper La Stampa (see above left) depicted an Israeli tank rolling up to a manger with little baby Jesus staring up in horror and crying out, 'Do you want to kill me once more?'"

Since last year when senior Wiesenthal Center officials began publicly expressing their concerns and endorsed changes to the film proposed by Christian and Jewish scholars, the Wiesenthal Center received an unprecedented wave of hate mail and calls. One letter stated, "...What this tells me is that you do not want the real truth to be shown on a public setting that will remind millions of Americans that the jews [sic] were in fact totally responsible for the death of Jesus Christ ...some of these enlightened folks will go for the throat of you jews [sic] and some of your offices of hate such as the ADL main office in New York, or maybe even the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Every time I hear of a suicide bomber killing jews [sic] in Israel I think to myself YES!"


Earlier this month, in an attempt to reach out to Mr. Gibson, Rabbi Hier (pictured left), who has seen the film twice, expressed his concerns directly to Mr. Gibson in a letter stating, "I have spent my adult life building an institution that promotes tolerance and commemorates the Holocaust. I have been a critic of your film, "The Passion of the Christ" which I sincerely believe portrays the Jews in a very negative manner and can once again stereotype them as being collectively responsible for the death of Jesus." Rabbi Hier proposed, "We can either go our separate ways or find a path to seek a middle ground..."(to read entire letter click here). To date, Rabbi Hier's letter has gone unanswered.

The controversy surrounding the film has escalated and given rise to misconceptions and distortions that threaten the status of Jewish-Christian relations and also takes away from the achievements of Vatican II's landmark 1965 document, Nostra Aetate, declaring "the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if that followed from Holy Scriptures."

To combat this, the Center has written and distributed An Appeal to People of Faith, a document addressing the spate of misinformation regarding Jewish sentiment to the film and to reiterate the Jewish community's gratitude for decades of work on the part of the Christian community to distance itself from the religious roots of antisemitism. It also encourages the Christian community to proclaim that the Crucifixion's message is not one of violence or blame and that there is no room in Christian teaching to support the notion that today's Jews should be seen as the killers of God. An Appeal to People of Faith has already been sent to select leadership of all branches of the Christian faith. As Rabbi Hier noted, "Though we may differ over the film, our long term objectives to fighting bigotry and speaking out against antisemitism are too important to ignore." (click here for An Appeal to People of Faith and for longer in depth background document Background To A Dilemma).


In Los Angeles, the day before The Passion of the Christ opened on Ash Wednesday, senior Wiesenthal Center officials met with Jewish and Christian leaders at the Center's Museum of Tolerance to address Jewish concerns and fears of antisemitic fallout over the film. Pastor Ted Haggard (pictured at podium), President of the National Association of Evangelical Christians, leader to 47 million, and a supporter of Gibson's film, stated, "We have come here to stand together to demonstrate the strength of the historical ties that bind Christians and Jews together...the relationship between us is too important and too strong to be compromised by our differences regarding this film. We will...continue on the path of friendship and closeness. We will continue our strong support for the State of Israel. We will not let our Jewish friends down in their time of need. We condemn unequivocally the cancer of anti-Semitism. We reject as unchristian with all the power we can muster any assertion that Jews collectively bare exclusive responsibility for the death of Christ...We will speak out against hatred of Jews...and we will declare loud and clear that we will not allow bigotry to drive a wedge between us."

In response, Rabbi Hier added, "... As we have said many times, our disagreement is not with Christian churches, nor with the Gospels. Our disagreement is with Mel Gibson whose own personal embellishments of the Gospels stereotype and denigrate the masses of Jews who were not followers of Jesus, while at the same time whitewash Pontius Pilate, who crucified a quarter of a million Jews and who was recalled to Rome by Caesar five years later for his brutality. This and a number of other of Gibson's dramatic improvisations could potentially imperil Jewish lives. This film will also shape the way millions of Christians and other movie-goers will look upon Jews for much time to come, and therefore threaten an important and beautiful Christian-Jewish alliance that has developed over the last half-century.

We are painfully aware that the power of vivid imagery has a history of inspiring in some people violence and hatred against the Jewish people. It is these concerns, against the backdrop of resurgent antisemitism in Europe and the Middle East that forces us to raise our voices (to read full text of Rabbi Hier's remarks, click here).

Click here to read:

Rabbi Hier's Editorial, Mel's Passion

Rabbi Hier's letter to Mel Gibson

An Appeal to People of Faith

Background to A Dilemma

source
 
Thanks for posting that - it is an intersting view point. Though I don't personally agree.

I take exception with this statement "Gibson should consider the political context before bringing out his film" - because that's like saying people should only make pc films.
 
Buffy Summers said:
Thanks for posting that - it is an intersting view point. Though I don't personally agree.

I take exception with this statement "Gibson should consider the political context before bringing out his film" - because that's like saying people should only make pc films.
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You are, of course, quite right Buffy. Under the US constitution Mel must surely be entitled to bring out whatever film he wants (which Amendment is the Freedom of Speech one, US guys? - or is it part of the Bill of Rights, I can't remember - we Brits don't have the advantage of your written Constitution but I believe there will be a European one eventually). Anyhoo, what I meant was that although I may not agree with everything someone may say, I would defend their right to say it...with riders about racism and inappropriate material for children.

It's good to have a bit of healthy debate every so often, isn't it?
 
It's the first amendment, which really only governs what laws Congress can make. But I mean, this would apply to most films made. Did anyone see PCU (lol) - it would be a world like that. Where you would always have to be worrying about who you might be offending, and when can you really offend no one?

It's one thing if a movie actively incites violence, but to expect a movie to be censored just because someone might get the wrong idea? That's a bit over the top imo. This is the same argument that's out there against video games and action movies.

If people can't see the difference between 2004 and nearly 2000 years ago, then they have bigger problems than are going to be solved by not seeing a movie.

And I still think its hypocritical to want to push blame to another party like the Romans.

Another thing I wanted to say lol is that frankly the Jews in this movie are shown in a better light than in a lot of films out there. I mean those kick ass guards at the beginning, the leaders that walk out of the 'trial' type thing, you've got Simon who is not a follower but ends up sticking up for Jesus...

You know, this sort of reminds me of the girl in my English class who cried in class when we were reading the Merchant of Venice because of how Shylock is depicted. Now there's painting Jews in a bad light...
 
I just saw the movie. I'm still a bit shell-shocked at the utter gore-factor of the movie. It was great, though. A little eye-opening. I was raised in churches, but soon lost an affinity I had for any one particuluar religion (I like to stay open to anything). Seeing this movie brought up a lot of old memories of me, young, listening to stories about the death of Jesus. For anyone who's seen the movie, I was wondering: Who is the younger disciple that stays with Mary and the younger girl? I can't seem to remember his name...
 
It is sold out for the next couple of weeks where I live....(I think, well I do know that it is sold out for the next few days....) I want to see it so bad!!!!!!!!
 
xtrustno1x said:
I just saw the movie. I'm still a bit shell-shocked at the utter gore-factor of the movie. It was great, though. A little eye-opening. I was raised in churches, but soon lost an affinity I had for any one particuluar religion (I like to stay open to anything). Seeing this movie brought up a lot of old memories of me, young, listening to stories about the death of Jesus. For anyone who's seen the movie, I was wondering: Who is the younger disciple that stays with Mary and the younger girl? I can't seem to remember his name...
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I assumed it was Paul - isn't he the one who took Mary out of Jerusalem after?
 
Buffy Summers said:
Thanks for posting that - it is an intersting view point. Though I don't personally agree.

I take exception with this statement "Gibson should consider the political context before bringing out his film" - because that's like saying people should only make pc films.
Click to expand...

I agree that people are entitled to this sort of freedom of speech, as outlined in the first amendment. But I also completely understand where he is coming from and his concern about the rise of anti-semitism. After all, it has gone on for centuries, so I believe he has the right to be concerned. Nevertheless, I do believe it would be in complete violation of the constitution to censor what films may be released. It's not rocket science.
 
I just saw the movie last night....I am still shaking.....it was the saddest thing I have ever seen, the part where they were "punishing" him......I can't believe that anyone could go through that, I think that me and Chelsea both cried a whole lot during that part......

To me it was one of those movies where you just want to scream "STOP IT you are hurting him!!!!!!!!" You know what I mean?
 
Apparently Steve Martin has written an article for The New Yorker lampooning Gibson's film. I couldn't find it online (I guess they want us to buy the magazine) but here's an article about the article(!) from the Sunday Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/03/07/wpass07.xml
As you might expect from Steve Martin it sounds pretty funny (not so much these days if his recent films are anything to go by 😉) but it seems to raise a few more points for debate
 
Mr. Pointy said:
Apparently Steve Martin has written an article for The New Yorker lampooning Gibson's film. I couldn't find it online (I guess they want us to buy the magazine) but here's an article about the article(!) from the Sunday Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/03/07/wpass07.xml
As you might expect from Steve Martin it sounds pretty funny (not so much these days if his recent films are anything to go by 😉) but it seems to raise a few more points for debate
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That was quite amusing, and I agree with Steve Martin. Do you know where I could find his column in full?
 
Queen of Buffdom said:
That was quite amusing, and I agree with Steve Martin. Do you know where I could find his column in full?
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All I know is that it appeared in the New Yorker (presumably in the latest issue). I did a quick Google and it wasn't accessible from the New Yorker web site - perhaps someone could provide a copy or a better link than I could find. I'll look for a better link...
...I couldn't find the column only references to it (such as the article I found). Your local public library magazine section sounds favourite...my local library probably won't have it for a while yet...support your local library, kids🙂
 
Queen of Buffdom said:
I'm really rather skeptical about the movie. Being Jewish, I'm concerned about the movie being used to support anti-semitism. I know that there are few people who would use it as support for blaming Christ's death on the Jews, but it is naive to think that no one would blame Christ's death on the Jews. There are fundamentalists out there who do! Furthermore, this is a time when anti-semitism is becoming a problem in Europe, especially because of the ongoing conflict in the middle east.
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Yes but isn't that what the jews did though, didn't they kill Jesus or as Muslims believe tried to kill Jesus. I don't know about Anti-Semitism, but isn't that the just the truth. I mean the only script that they are following is the Bible, and if the bible says that than what can they do?
 
Charisma said:
Yes but isn't that what the jews did though, didn't they kill Jesus or as Muslims believe tried to kill Jesus. I don't know about Anti-Semitism, but isn't that the just the truth. I mean the only script that they are following is the Bible, and if the bible says that than what can they do?
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The Jews were not responsible for the death of Jesus. You must remember that the Bible was written by men- men who were most likely angry about his death. The Catholic Church has even clarified the issue. They changed their position publicly and stated that it was not, in fact, the Jews, but rather the Romans who crucified Jesus.
 
I think actually they absolved the Jews from blame, which is not changing their postition on it per se, just saying that Jews are not damned for it, and say that the Romans are the ones who actually killed him.

And just because it was written by men, doesn't mean it wasn't true lol

But in any case, the document they're basing the film on does put Jews behind the death of Jesus. You can't make a movie about it and not say that.
 
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