The problem with Buffy is...

[LadyLavinia]

my point was that the Cordelia/Angel relationship doesn't make sense.

If you're referring to what happened between them during Season 4, I would agree with you. But if you're referring to the development of Angel and Cordy's relationship from friendship to love, I don't. In fact, I would find your comments implausible. Are you saying that it's impossible for two people to go from friends to love? Now if you're saying that the curse on Angel's soul made it impossible for him and Cordy to have a relationship, you might as well say the same about his relationship with Buffy or any other person he might develop romantic feelings for.

 

[Red Sox Nation]

This is why Cordy never saw Angel as anything other than a 'eunuch'. When he sends her away in Couplet, he's doing what he did for Buffy in the Prom, trying to give her the life she deserves.

In Waiting in the Wings, Angel actually does address that he has little to offer her because of the curse, but Lorne tells him to take a shot. Angel isn't the same person he was when he left Buffy this perhaps explains why he started to see potential in getting back together with her. The curse still stands, but he's aware of it now. I'm not saying it's altogether wise, but maybe Angel's changed his stance slightly and believes he can a make a relationship work with the curse. Personally I'd be wary but that's just me.

maybe you're right, but I still feel something's off. Angel would change his stance overnight? he just talked to Fred a few episodes earlier, & Cordelia was 'pretty much' forcing him to. the problem is from both sides, Angel & Cordelia, not just Angel.

It depends on how he plans to stop W&H. By killing humans at W&H he'd be doing it to full his obsession further. When he kills vampires, he's not judging them as such but preventing innocent people from being killed. By doing things like saving telekinetic girls etc he can better serve humanity by undermining W&H through good deeds. Being a champion is not about getting all the bad guys but about envisioning a better world.

Also we have to look at the nature of human/demon. Angel and co usually don't kill humans but it's not within human nature to kill other humans for the most part. Unlike vampires and other predetory demons what drives them to kill is more complex. Even by killing 'evil' demons, we are not judging them but understanding that it's kill or be killed. Also they don't kill demon indescrimately either. They release the demons from their human captors in The Ring and see Merle's death as a murder. It's not clear cut but the moral quandry is addressed on the show.

I know what you mean, but there is still immunity to humans in the show, he can kill Lilah & prevent her from doing any crime.
Lilah & Lindsay were pretty much abusing this immunity, telling him point blank "you don't kill human, you just come here for empty threats".

I can't go into another Spike discussion. I've dealt with these arguments for the past couple weeks and I've reached my breaking point here (for a while at least, lol). Bottom-line: Spike was an anomaly. Spike felt remorse (to an extent) and grief when it came to the people he loved when he was soulless. IMO, there's a lot of a gray areas when it comes to the whole vampires/soul concept because each vampire that we see goes through a different journey.

I would agree if Spike was the only different vampire, but James, Dru, Darla, Harmony & even the master had emotions.
it would only work if Angelus is actually different than all other vampires, he's the only one who retains no humanity at all. but that would create another problem, & that is: why the significant difference between Angel & Angelus. & what makes him different than all other vampires?

Sure, ok then We'll settle the score on the field.

I read an interesting article yesterday, you might wanna google it, cashman (yankees general manager) himself said the red sox have the better team.

If you're referring to what happened between them during Season 4, I would agree with you. But if you're referring to the development of Angel and Cordy's relationship from friendship to love, I don't. In fact, I would find your comments implausible. Are you saying that it's impossible for two people to go from friends to love? Now if you're saying that the curse on Angel's soul made it impossible for him and Cordy to have a relationship, you might as well say the same about his relationship with Buffy or any other person he might develop romantic feelings for.

you got half my point, he left Buffy because he can never give her what she wants, & he puts her & himself in danger. why ignore what he did & pursue a relationship with Cordy?

 

[StarSlayer]

I would agree if Spike was the only different vampire, but James, Dru, Darla, Harmony & even the master had emotions.
it would only work if Angelus is actually different than all other vampires, he's the only one who retains no humanity at all. but that would create another problem, & that is: why the significant difference between Angel & Angelus. & what makes him different than all other vampires?

Angelus has no soul (and literally no humanity), Angel has a soul (because of the curse). Angelus didn't want to feel emotions, feel love. He saw it as a weakness, which may explain why the Judge recognized no humanity in him. IMO, I don't really consider Angelus/Angel 2 entirely different beings.

I read an interesting article yesterday, you might wanna google it, cashman (yankees general manager) himself said the red sox have the better team.

He said the Red Sox have a better edge over the Yankees right now when it comes to starting pitching. But, the Yanks have the better bullpen. Get the facts straight, lol 😛

 

[prophecygrrl]

you got half my point, he left Buffy because he can never give her what she wants, & he puts her & himself in danger. why ignore what he did & pursue a relationship with Cordy?

Cause she's Cordy!

Cause they fit together. Cause he loves her. Doesn't matter, really. At any rate, that relationship bombed abysmally. The show reiterated again and again that the only chance they have together is in Angel's dreams. I don't think this contradicts anything. As for him wanting to try to have a relationship with Cordy, it still makes perfect sense. They're in love, (whether you considered it forced or not, that love exists and it's in canon) and he wanted to try. In this case, they're already sharing a life, a surrogate family, and a mission. Really, really not the same with BtVS Season 3 Buffy/Angel. Angel and Cordelia knew exactly what they were getting into, what kind of person the other was, and how that fit into their lives. Think to 'You're Welcome':

CORDELIA: Do you ever wonder... Do you ever think about if we'd met up that night and had a chance to—

ANGEL: (quickly) All the time.

CORDELIA: Guess we missed our moment, huh?

ANGEL: Maybe we were meant to. Or maybe people like us just don't get to...have that.

CORDELIA: Angel, there are no people like us.

maybe they realized too late that it wouldn't work. But the point is, it didn't happen, in large part because it couldn't. And they both knew it. It's not comparable to Bangel or the situation in BtVS Season 3.

 

[Red Sox Nation]

Angelus has no soul (and literally no humanity), Angel has a soul (because of the curse). Angelus didn't want to feel emotions, feel love. He saw it as a weakness, which may explain why the Judge recognized no humanity in him. IMO, I don't really consider Angelus/Angel 2 entirely different beings.

I know that, but how come some vampires retain some form of emotions like love & remorse, while others - like Angelus - have absolutely no humanity.
a soul strips a vampire of a lot of things, the most is remorse, but then there's Spike & James, & THE MASTER.

actually, now that I think deeper, Angelus is the only vampire that has no emotions at all, this answers a lot of questions. Angelus is just different. though we don't have the answer to "why". but it makes more sense.

He said the Red Sox have a better edge over the Yankees right now when it comes to starting pitching. But, the Yanks have the better bullpen. Get the facts straight, lol

he was asked who was better point blank, he said "the red sox, but we have the better bullpen".
ok I agree that you have the better bullpen, but our rotation is lights out better than yours, the only legitimate starter you have is CC Sabathia.

Cause she's Cordy!

Cause they fit together. Cause he loves her. Doesn't matter, really. At any rate, that relationship bombed abysmally. The show reiterated again and again that the only chance they have together is in Angel's dreams. I don't think this contradicts anything. As for him wanting to try to have a relationship with Cordy, it still makes perfect sense. They're in love, (whether you considered it forced or not, that love exists and it's in canon) and he wanted to try. In this case, they're already sharing a life, a surrogate family, and a mission. Really, really not the same with BtVS Season 3 Buffy/Angel. Angel and Cordelia knew exactly what they were getting into, what kind of person the other was, and how that fit into their lives. Think to 'You're Welcome':

cause she's Cordy? so Buffy was a fling? I'm not arguing whether he loves her or not, I'm arguing about why try to pursue a relationship when a few episodes earlier you didn't want to & the girl you were trying to pursue a relationship with flat out orders you to not get involved with anyone or hell is coming.

in order for this to make sense:
1- Angel left Buffy for no apparent reason, or he changed his mind & thought that nobody would be in danger this time.
2- Cordy is hypocrite.

if you agree with those two, then the relationship would make sense. yes the relationship never worked, but his intent was to pursue it.

 

[prophecygrrl]

cause she's Cordy? so Buffy was a fling? I'm not arguing whether he loves her or not, I'm arguing about why try to pursue a relationship when a few episodes earlier you didn't want to & the girl you were trying to pursue a relationship with flat out orders you to not get involved with anyone or hell is coming.

in order for this to make sense:
1- Angel left Buffy for no apparent reason, or he changed his mind & thought that nobody would be in danger this time.
2- Cordy is hypocrite.

if you agree with those two, then the relationship would make sense. yes the relationship never worked, but his intent was to pursue it.

Oh, I said "because she's Cordy" lightheartedly. I'm a huge Cordy fan. 😛

Angel left Buffy because he did not fit into her life at that point. Simple as that. Angel and Buffy's relationship was ALWAYS rocky because of who she was. Angel leaving Buffy never came out of the blue. She was the Slayer, but she was also a teenager who was about to go to college. Buffy and Angel always tried to make their relationship fit around the current crisis/apocalypse. I don't see how keeping that up could've ended well for anybody, and ultimately, it didn't. As for why Angel leaves Buffy, he does it multiple times for different reasons- at the end of Season 3, yes, but also in IWRY. Her safety is obviously always in his mind, but a huge part of why he leaves (at the end of Season 3) is so she can get that tiny chance at normalcy. We all know that eventually will never happen for Buffy (see: BtVS seasons 4-7 😛), but the point is that he wanted to give her that opportunity.
And as for IWRY, even though they've got everything they've ever wanted (human Angel, the curse not being a problem anymore, etc.), it still wouldn't work out. Not just because he can't provide her with a future this time, but because the world needs a champion. Buffy can't protect him all the time; she needs him to fight his own mission just as much as the world does. Angel's feelings for Cordelia don't negate any of this. We're talking two different women, two completely different situations. Cordy was tied to the mission and to Angel for the rest of her life. (Literally, it turned out.) Cordelia's future and Angel's future were one and the same as long as they were fighting together, and they [Cordelia, Connor, Angel] were a family in a way that he and Buffy never were. Bangel and Cangel are not comparable, not to me anyway. I don't see how one contradicts the other.

 

[Red Sox Nation]

Oh, I said "because she's Cordy" lightheartedly. I'm a huge Cordy fan. 😛

Angel left Buffy because he did not fit into her life at that point. Simple as that. Angel and Buffy's relationship was ALWAYS rocky because of who she was. Angel leaving Buffy never came out of the blue. She was the Slayer, but she was also a teenager who was about to go to college. Buffy and Angel always tried to make their relationship fit around the current crisis/apocalypse. I don't see how keeping that up could've ended well for anybody, and ultimately, it didn't. As for why Angel leaves Buffy, he does it multiple times for different reasons- at the end of Season 3, yes, but also in IWRY. Her safety is obviously always in his mind, but a huge part of why he leaves (at the end of Season 3) is so she can get that tiny chance at normalcy. We all know that eventually will never happen for Buffy (see: BtVS seasons 4-7 😛), but the point is that he wanted to give her that opportunity.
And as for IWRY, even though they've got everything they've ever wanted (human Angel, the curse not being a problem anymore, etc.), it still wouldn't work out. Not just because he can't provide her with a future this time, but because the world needs a champion. Buffy can't protect him all the time; she needs him to fight his own mission just as much as the world does. Angel's feelings for Cordelia don't negate any of this. We're talking two different women, two completely different situations. Cordy was tied to the mission and to Angel for the rest of her life. (Literally, it turned out.) Cordelia's future and Angel's future were one and the same as long as they were fighting together, and they [Cordelia, Connor, Angel] were a family in a way that he and Buffy never were. Bangel and Cangel are not comparable, not to me anyway. I don't see how one contradicts the other.

you answered my first question, not that I agree with it, but I guess we have to agree to disagree (plus, the whole network forcing the writers for such a relationship adds weight to my argument, & I'm willing to stick with it).

now, Cordy's a hypocrite, prove me wrong.

 

[LadyLavinia]

Angel left Buffy because he did not fit into her life at that point. Simple as that. Angel and Buffy's relationship was ALWAYS rocky because of who she was. Angel leaving Buffy never came out of the blue. She was the Slayer, but she was also a teenager who was about to go to college. Buffy and Angel always tried to make their relationship fit around the current crisis/apocalypse.

How is it that you managed to leave out Angel's pesky little cursed soul? Have you forgotten that was one of the main reasons that their relationship broke up?

As for Buffy's chance for a normal life . . . well, I would say that it ranked at 0, considering that she was a vampire slayer not expected to live beyond the age of 25. I wonder why Angel never considered this.😕

And as for IWRY, even though they've got everything they've ever wanted (human Angel, the curse not being a problem anymore, etc.), it still wouldn't work out. Not just because he can't provide her with a future this time, but because the world needs a champion.

The world needed a champion? What the hell for? To save it from being overrun by demons? Perhaps that would be a good thing for the world, considering that humans have been systematically and slowly destroying it (and still doing it), since they have forgotten how to respect nature.

 

[prophecygrrl]

you answered my first question, not that I agree with it, but I guess we have to agree to disagree (plus, the whole network forcing the writers for such a relationship adds weight to my argument, & I'm willing to stick with it).

now, Cordy's a hypocrite, prove me wrong.

Where is she a hypocrite again? I legitimately don't remember. It's been a while since I've seen the episodes you're talking about. 😛

---------- Post added at 11:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 PM ----------

How is it that you managed to leave out Angel's pesky little cursed soul? Have you forgotten that was one of the main reasons that their relationship broke up?

As for Buffy's chance for a normal life . . . well, I would say that it ranked at 0, considering that she was a vampire slayer not expected to live beyond the age of 25. I wonder why Angel never considered this.😕

Oh yes. The soul thing. Angel has issues. Brood, brood, brood. Baggage, baggage, baggage. Guy can't get laid.

Also Angel's right stupid sometimes. I love the guy and I'm no fan of Bangel anyway, but honestly. 🙄

 

[Red Sox Nation]

Where is she a hypocrite again? I legitimately don't remember. It's been a while since I've seen the episodes you're talking about.

I've been telling you why for a while now, Cordy disapproved of Bangel, Dangel, & Fangel.

in Bangel's case, that was long ago so we can erase that if you wish. but Darla/Angel was greatly disapproved, her own line was "can you imagine if you slept with Darla & turned into Angelus....".
in Fred's case, she kept pushing Angel to tell Fred that there is no way a relationship would work, then she told her herself, then Angel had to talk to her. skip a few episodes & now they wanna have a relationship?

she was a hypocrite for that reason, she didn't want Angel in any relationship, & then all of a sudden she wants to be involved with him?

Oh yes. The soul thing. Angel has issues. Brood, brood, brood. Baggage, baggage, baggage. Guy can't get laid.

Also Angel's right stupid sometimes. I love the guy and I'm no fan of Bangel anyway, but honestly.

again, I've been talking about his soul & putting Buffy (& Cordy) in danger for a while now & you just got it? that is the second reason why it doesn't make any sense.

 

[prophecygrrl]

I've been telling you why for a while now, Cordy disapproved of Bangel, Dangel, & Fangel.

in Bangel's case, that was long ago so we can erase that if you wish. but Darla/Angel was greatly disapproved, her own line was "can you imagine if you slept with Darla & turned into Angelus....".
in Fred's case, she kept pushing Angel to tell Fred that there is no way a relationship would work, then she told her herself, then Angel had to talk to her. skip a few episodes & now they wanna have a relationship?

she was a hypocrite for that reason, she didn't want Angel in any relationship, & then all of a sudden she wants to be involved with him?

Did she ever say that he couldn't be involved in any relationship? Because there are perfectly valid reasons for Cordy to disapprove of Fred and Darla, and Angel's got his own reasons for breaking up with Buffy. Unless you believe Cordy was the only thing keeping the great star-crossed romance of Fred and Angel from happening? 😛

again, I've been talking about his soul & putting Buffy (& Cordy) in danger for a while now & you just got it? that is the second reason why it doesn't make any sense.

what, the 'no sex' thing? Sure, that applies to all romantic relationships obviously, but there's nothing in canon that says Cordelia and Angel seriously can't make a celibate relationship work (unless we're talking Dream!Cordelia in Season 4, which doesn't exactly count cause she wasn't real...). Buffy and Angel, on the other hand, clearly have a lot of baggage when it comes to sex. We're talking completely different relationships.

When I mentioned the soul though, I was more thinking about Angel still dealing with the aftermath of BtVS Season 2 and having somewhat of an identity crisis. Which is bound to happen when, like, you become a different person. 😉 Is that something he can deal with with Buffy by his side? Doesn't seem likely. He broke up with the girl.

 

[Red Sox Nation]

Did she ever say that he couldn't be involved in any relationship? Because there are perfectly valid reasons for Cordy to disapprove of Fred and Darla, and Angel's got his own reasons for breaking up with Buffy. Unless you believe Cordy was the only thing keeping the great star-crossed romance of Fred and Angel from happening? 😛



what, the 'no sex' thing? Sure, that applies to all romantic relationships obviously, but there's nothing in canon that says Cordelia and Angel seriously can't make a celibate relationship work (unless we're talking Dream!Cordelia in Season 4, which doesn't exactly count cause she wasn't real...). Buffy and Angel, on the other hand, clearly have a lot of baggage when it comes to sex. We're talking completely different relationships.

When I mentioned the soul though, I was more thinking about Angel still dealing with the aftermath of BtVS Season 2 and having somewhat of an identity crisis. Which is bound to happen when, like, you become a different person. 😉 Is that something he can deal with with Buffy by his side? Doesn't seem likely. He broke up with the girl.

in Fred's case, she kept pushing him to talk to her, I don't remember the exact words but she did say you can't have a relationship...blah blah blah.

& no they can't have a celibate relationship, Angel himself said that he can have such a relationship with Buffy, but it won't last & everyone would end up being hurt...etc

I remember that dream, the one where he called for Buffy's name in the end. it kinda makes Cordy the rebound girl, but I never overanalyzed it anyway, its just a dream.

 

[Kana]

maybe you're right, but I still feel something's off. Angel would change his stance overnight? he just talked to Fred a few episodes earlier, & Cordelia was 'pretty much' forcing him to. the problem is from both sides, Angel & Cordelia, not just Angel.

I don't think it was overnight as such. Angel's changed over the years and at least he's aware of the curse. I still say I'd be wary, Angelus is a huge risk and he shouldn't take relationships lightly for that reason.

I know what you mean, but there is still immunity to humans in the show, he can kill Lilah & prevent her from doing any crime.
Lilah & Lindsay were pretty much abusing this immunity, telling him point blank "you don't kill human, you just come here for empty threats".

If humans are a direct threat, Angel does consider it. There is an element of consistency, if anyone seemingly without conscience poses a direct threat and their actions appear to be virtually unstoppable then Angel does attempt to find a way to stop said threat. He killed Vanessa Brewer, more or less killed Ronald Meltzer, McManus although a werewolf, was still human, Hauser... So Angel will do what he can to protect innocent lives but it's not always simple. Who do you kill and who do you protect. IMO, Ats doesn't shy away from these questions as I've shown above.

 

[Red Sox Nation]

I'm talking about both shows, take "Slefless" Btvs S7 for example.

Xander: we help our friends, willow killed someone & we helped her
Buffy: Willow is human, Anya is a demon

those aren't the exact words, but something like that. there's clear bigotry towards demons, its like saying demons are irredeemable & should be killed as soon as they do something wrong.


& about the whole Cordy/Angel thing, so you get my point, Angelus isn't something pleasant & shouldn't be taken lightly.

 

[Kana]

I'm talking about both shows, take "Slefless" Btvs S7 for example.

Xander: we help our friends, willow killed someone & we helped her
Buffy: Willow is human, Anya is a demon

those aren't the exact words, but something like that. there's clear bigotry towards demons, its like saying demons are irredeemable & should be killed as soon as they do something wrong.


& about the whole Cordy/Angel thing, so you get my point, Angelus isn't something pleasant & shouldn't be taken lightly.

Yeah agree about Buffy, but that's her stance. I don't think it's a failing of the show but more a personal stance. I also think Buffy treated Willow personally because she's her close friend. Buffy's finds it emotionally harder in general to kill humans but it's not a failing of the show IMO. The debate right there is an example of how people can view it differently.

 

[StarSlayer]

I know that, but how come some vampires retain some form of emotions like love & remorse, while others - like Angelus - have absolutely no humanity.
a soul strips a vampire of a lot of things, the most is remorse, but then there's Spike & James, & THE MASTER.

actually, now that I think deeper, Angelus is the only vampire that has no emotions at all, this answers a lot of questions. Angelus is just different. though we don't have the answer to "why". but it makes more sense.

For me, they just do because that's the story we're presented. And I agree about Angelus. He is different because he has no emotions. He's the most evil vampire there ever was. Although, I sometimes wonder what made him cry when he watched "Giselle." Part of me thinks it's because there was art in the production (being a ballet and all) and maybe he connected to that artistry (since killing for him for an art form).

he was asked who was better point blank, he said "the red sox, but we have the better bullpen".
ok I agree that you have the better bullpen, but our rotation is lights out better than yours, the only legitimate starter you have is CC Sabathia.

The Red Sox (right now) have the slight advantage because starting pitching is a huge deal. It can make or break games. But, in order to win, you need to know the strengths of your opponents and compete with it. 😉 I'm not worried in my Yankees! 😀

 

[Red Sox Nation]

I don't remember a lot of quotes, but I remember even Lorne - who is a demon - having problems with killing evil humans, a lot of employees at W&H stating that Angel doesn't kill humans, Lilah's abuse of her immunity allowed her to do anything, she acknowledged that later in the show & told him straight in his face that she'd do anything she wants because he won't kill her & he can go to hell, it started to get absurd, & a lot of such instances, but I can't remember them all.

I didn't notice those things in my first rewatches, but after rewatching it enough, I get to notice a lot of things. like right now I'm in the middle of Btvs S7 & Ats S4, S7 of Buffy is starting to look illogical in some instances with a lot of plot holes. & S6 of Buffy is actually better than it was on my rewatch last year, I had it as the worst season last year, but S7 is looking absurd, S6 had its bright spots with some very nice episodes like Tabula Rasa. the one thing that never changes is Dawn, she actually gets more annoying on every rewatch.


EDIT:

For me, they just do because that's the story we're presented. And I agree about Angelus. He is different because he has no emotions. He's the most evil vampire there ever was. Although, I sometimes wonder what made him cry when he watched "Giselle." Part of me thinks it's because there was art in the production (being a ballet and all) and maybe he connected to that artistry (since killing for him for an art form).

Angelus is kinda like a noble vampire, he doesn't kill to feed, he doesn't hate his victims.

The Red Sox (right now) have the slight advantage because starting pitching is a huge deal. It can make or break games. But, in order to win, you need to know the strengths of your opponents and compete with it. I'm not worried in my Yankees!

The Red Sox rotation is projected to be the second best in the league behind the phillies, & the Yankees are projected in the bottom 5, pitching wins games, & unless you pitch CC Sabathia all season long, you're not gonna win many.

 

[LadyLavinia]

I would agree if Spike was the only different vampire, but James, Dru, Darla, Harmony & even the master had emotions.

That's not surprising. I never understood the concept that being a demon made one incapable of emotions. I would assume that all sentient beings had emotions, regardless of moral compass.

I didn't notice those things in my first rewatches, but after rewatching it enough, I get to notice a lot of things. like right now I'm in the middle of Btvs S7 & Ats S4, S7 of Buffy is starting to look illogical in some instances with a lot of plot holes. & S6 of Buffy is actually better than it was on my rewatch last year, I had it as the worst season last year, but S7 is looking absurd, S6 had its bright spots with some very nice episodes like Tabula Rasa. the one thing that never changes is Dawn, she actually gets more annoying on every rewatch.

The only plot hole I can recall from S7 was the oracle known as Beljoxa's Eye. Its comments to Giles and Anya about the Slayer line was very confusing.

 

[StarSlayer]

Angelus is kinda like a noble vampire, he doesn't kill to feed, he doesn't hate his victims.

??? Angelus? Noble because he doesn't kill to feed but rather for the art? That's like saying Hannibal Lector just eats his victims because they taste good to him. No matter the means, Angelus still killed. He was ultimately evil.

The Red Sox rotation is projected to be the second best in the league behind the phillies, & the Yankees are projected in the bottom 5, pitching wins games, & unless you pitch CC Sabathia all season long, you're not gonna win many.

Bored now 😛

 

[InsaneMystic]

??? Angelus? Noble because he doesn't kill to feed but rather for the art? That's like saying Hannibal Lector just eats his victims because they taste good to him. No matter the means, Angelus still killed. He was ultimately evil.

Maybe RSN meant "noble" not as in "honorable, principled", more as in "aristocratic, elitary"? Angelus' murders and torture sessions definitely were refined, artistic, and cerebral, which makes him a "noble vampire" in that second sense, coming closer to an (still hellishly twisted, of course) ideal of culturedness than the boorish run-of-the-mill vampires who just liked to fight, bite, and kill... that's so gauche. *sniff*

StarSlayer agrees: Maybe, but I think it still doesn't make his killings any less wrong.

Neither do I, that's not the point (and if that was RSN's point, I second your ??? at it, lol).
If you split someone's head with an axe, you're a boor. If you slice someone into Julienne and arrange the slices as little rose-shapes around the bloody skeleton, you're an artist. In both cases, of course, you are a murderer and have to get dealt with according to that.