RipperGilesFan
Knock yourself out.Please
I don't think so either. But I also think Buffy had no right to throw another person out of his home either.
The Scoobies vs. Buffy: "Empty Places"
- Thread starter Ripper666
- Start date
I don't think so either. But I also think Buffy had no right to throw another person out of his home either.
That was my biggest problem with the episode. They threw Buffy out of her house. The one she had worked (the only one who worked) flipping burgers to pay the bills for. I understand the team not wanting to charge into another trap so soon after Xander got his eye poked out. That's understandable. But for everyone (particularly the Scoobies who knew Faith's unstable history) to just appoint Faith their leader after she took them out for a few drinks was ridiculous. I can even understand them refusing to leave or walking out on her, but you don't throw someone out of their own house.
Still, I suppose the writers wanted us to take Buffy's side since she is the hero and so they wrote it that way. It's just that so many debates among Joss's characters I am able to clearly sympathise and see where both characters are coming from but this one the only two people I can sympathize with are Buffy and Xander.
Still, I suppose the writers wanted us to take Buffy's side since she is the hero and so they wrote it that way. It's just that so many debates among Joss's characters I am able to clearly sympathise and see where both characters are coming from but this one the only two people I can sympathize with are Buffy and Xander.
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Ripper666
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RipperGilesFan
Knock yourself out.Please
The metaphor was that Xander kept the house standing, kept it together. House gets crashed, Xander rebuilds it. Characters argue over Buffy's decisions, Xander puts a stop to their argument either by giving a speech about trusting Buffy or saying that he has a house to fix.
When Xander got hurt, the house crashed down: no one trusted Buffy and she was kicked out.
When Xander got hurt, the house crashed down: no one trusted Buffy and she was kicked out.
Very interesting view! I agree with it!sosa lola said:
So you want to say that the hole house loved/estimate Xander so much deep inside their hearts that they decided to make a stand or would this had happene too if for example Giles would have been hurt the way Xander got? (So maybe they wouldn't stand up if Willow got hurt? Or a potential slayer?)
I can't take credit for it. One of the writers mentioned the metaphor of the house crumbling down because Xander got hurt in the Dirty Girls commentary.
Xander is the one who keeps the house warm and useable by fixing the broken windows and tables. He's gentle and caring, playing the role of the father figure in S7. He drives Buffy and Dawn to school every day, takes Willow to visit Tara's grave, is there when one of his friends is upset to provide comfort, like his speech to Dawn. No wonder everybody was crushed by his injury.
RipperGilesFan
Knock yourself out.Please
first time I hear that version 😛 But i can see why you wouldn't like to think she threw a guy out of his home because the same things was done to her. i didn't like it either. Still, it is what she did
EvilWillow
Scooby
I always hated this episode because of the betrayal. There is a reason why the world never ends...because Buffy saves it. This is one time where I actually feel really bad for Buffy and angry at everyone else. I was more or less angry at willow and dawn, I really wasn't surprised that Xander betrayed her, he's a douche anyways.
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😱
Xander has stood by Buffy's side and helped her save the world as much as Willow and Dawn did. If even more. Him being a douche over her relationships with Spike and Angel doesn't mean that he'd betray her easily.
EvilWillow
Scooby
I'd call not informing her of the plan to return Angel's soul in season 2, betrayal. With holding information like that from her is complete betrayal.
white avenger
white avenger
But wouldn't that be that same thing as having the mechanic who works on your car take it away from you because you weren't driving it to suit him? At the very best, assuming that he is a passenger in that car, HE should get out, kick the driver/owner out. Even if Xander no longer trusted Buffy, and everyone else felt exactly the same way, Buffy was the legal owner of the house, not Dawn, and most certainly none of the other people for whom she was providing food and shelter, including Dawn. If they weren't happy with what Buffy was doing, why didn't THEY leave? By that time, there were more than enough vacant homes that they could use.
AS for Buffy throwing the guy out of his home, I have never understood that, since the same logic about vacant homes applies to her just as well as everybody else. If I had been writing that scene, she would have walked into a vacant house, called to see if anyone else was there, and, when no one answered, gone in and prepared to spend the night.
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EvilWillow
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kndizzle
Fish of the Day
Her leadership has always gotten results but in the end is sort of lacking in the "planning" department. In the end, Buffy doesn't really rely on anyone but herself. Yes she receives help, but she realizes she is the last boundary. Understandable, considering she is the Chosen One. They were partially right - Buffy needed to be more flexible in getting their help formulating a plan. But the Scoobies issues with her plan needed to be better construed, ie. NOT throwing her out of the house and calling her a terrible leader, especially considering they've stood behind her for 7 some odd years without a peep. The whole exchange was amplified to the extreme. To me it was a metaphor of the situation they were in - war. I think this was the moment when all parties involved really realized they really were at war. All bets are off. And apparently, so is common sense. Everyone was partially right in this situation... But in the end the Scoobies came off as hypocritical. ESPECIALLY throwing her out, how uncalled for. They question the safety and security Buffy provides but can't offer any better solutions or ideas as to improve it when something goes wrong as it did in Dirty Girls. It's a catch-22.
One betrayal doesn't mean he was betraying her all the time. It doesn't mean that it's typical of Xander not to be on Buffy's side. These are the expections, the rule is that Xander is always on Buffy's side.
Willow also betrayed her by losing herself to magic and trying to destroy the world. Not to mention attempting to kill Dawn, too. Why is it typical of Xander to betray Buffy but not typical of Willow to do so?
Dagenspear
Scooby
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Betrayal? Was it a betrayal? Yes it was. Because they never gave Buffy a chance to defense her, they never gave her any advices! They planned behind Buffys back a new plan! Noone tried to stop her when she left the house! But who commit the betrayal? Xander, Willow, Giles, Dawn or the potential slayers? I think they all played a role in there! They had all fear, the community which the betrayal gave them, helped them. Once I heard that a good leader has to focus the hate of the others onto himself. Then all the members of the group have something which connects them. Even in hard times. In our case it was Buffy. I don't think this is completely correct, in contrary. But I also think that the betrayal helped the Scoobie-Gang to survive and it was a hard experience for Buffy, but in the end she just got stronger out of this experience! All this doesn't excuse the betrayal. I hate the Scoobie-Gang for it!
Here's what Xander used to do before he got hurt:
X a n d e r: Let me tell you something about Buffy. In fact, you should all listen to this. I've been through more battles with Buffy than you all can ever imagine. She's stopped everything that's ever come up against her. She's laid down her life, literally, to protect the people around her. This girl has died two times, and she's still standing. You're scared? That's smart. You got questions? You should. But you doubt her motives, you think Buffy's all about the kill, then you take the little bus to battle. I've seen her heart, this time not literally. And I'm telling you, right now, she cares more about your lives than you will ever know. You gotta trust her. She's earned it.
And Willow did it all on her own, too. She even murdered people. She tried to kill her friends. She beat up Buffy, Giles and Xander. Willow's betrayal is far worse.
X a n d e r: Let me tell you something about Buffy. In fact, you should all listen to this. I've been through more battles with Buffy than you all can ever imagine. She's stopped everything that's ever come up against her. She's laid down her life, literally, to protect the people around her. This girl has died two times, and she's still standing. You're scared? That's smart. You got questions? You should. But you doubt her motives, you think Buffy's all about the kill, then you take the little bus to battle. I've seen her heart, this time not literally. And I'm telling you, right now, she cares more about your lives than you will ever know. You gotta trust her. She's earned it.
And Willow did it all on her own, too. She even murdered people. She tried to kill her friends. She beat up Buffy, Giles and Xander. Willow's betrayal is far worse.
EvilWillow
Scooby
Um...Willow had just lost the love of her life and was distraught. She wasn't in her right mind and most certainly was not herself.
Xander didn't tell Buffy about Angel because he was a selfish asshole who didn't want to see her have a happy ending because he wanted her for himself.
Like I said, Douchebag.
---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 AM ----------
Ripper666 said:
Huh? I don't know what you are referring to, could you please explain it better and be a little less vague?
Btw, thanks for the negative Karma. That was really nice of you.
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sisterofmercy
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