Sorry I should have clarified, when I meant abusive, I just meant mentally.
They were mutually physically abusive, but I dont think the show ever focused on their story as a domestic violence kinda thing so the violence wasn't relevant.
I dont mean I condone violence or anything, it's just that they were a vampire and a slayer, who had been battling for years, so it doesn't really apply to them.
Fair enough. I can see why you wouldn't include the physical part, in which case I'm more incline to agree with you. In my case, I choose to include the physical abuse because the moment Buffy decided to enter her relationship with Spike (even if it was just sexual), it was no longer about a slayer and a vampire to me, it was about a man (figuratively speaking) and a woman taking part in an abusive relationship. A bit in the same sense that two boxers are suppose to fight in the ring, but if they choose to enter a relationship, their "job description" isn't relevant to their relationship. I know it's not as simple as that, and I'm okay with either opinions, but the way I see it, Buffy being the slayer doesn't give her the right to beat her sexual partner.
This I dont really agree with, he did understand love, he was a souless monster, he had no comprehension of proper love but it was a love that pre-soul him was capable of. For it to be her taking advantage of him, then you have to look at his pre-sould state as vulnerable.
Then this is were it gets tricking, cuz if you take his pre-soul state as vulnerable, your looking at him as a whole, so he'd also responsible for everything he did bad after getting a soul, cuz if he's not responsible for the stuff he did without a soul, then why is Buffy responsible for using him?
Here is my point of view. I don't see Spike as vulnerable, and I separate entirely his pre-soul and post-soul self. The thing is, I don't see this base on Spike at all. He was a complete monster and absolutely deserved what he had coming for him, but what Buffy did was still not okay. She lowered himself to his level. She is responsible for using him because Buffy is a human being, she has a soul, and she knows what is right and wrong. She could know that what she was doing was not okay. He might have been a monster, but on principle she was still wrong for doing what she was doing and she knew so. Her treating him like he was nothing was okay when they maintained a slayer/vampire relationship, but again, as soon as she slept with him, she gave that relationship away, and she has to deal with the fact that if she was willing to be intimate with him, she has to deal with willingly using him. That's just the way I see it.
If you don' look at his pre-soul state as vulnerable, but as a different person who post-soul Spike isn't responsible for, then she didn't use him becasue pre-soul Spike was essentially a different character and he loved her to the best he could, the most he'd ever understand.
Actually, this is also one of the reason that I'm able to enjoy Spuffy in season 7. She definitely used pre-souled Spike, but I'm able to look past that because it's a whole different story in s7, where she actually starts to love (no I don't believe she loved him, but she at least saw him as an equal) souled Spike. Their relationship in s7 is completely different, and neither of them are abusive, and they actually do make a good pairing. I can look past both Spike's and Buffy's action because of the complete different circumstances.
A lot of people also claim he got his soul becasue of love, (not me, spite and anger is my explanation for that), so if he was capable of choosing to get a soul for love, how was he not capable of understanding what Buffy did?
I'm not one of those people, I think Spike getting his soul for love is complete bull****. I was referring to your first post with the understanding part.
[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION]
Buffy had always done that with Spike and it was never an issue. She's the slayer and he is the soulless vampire. They hit each other. It's basically the whole point of the show.
I can't agree on Buffy mentally abusing him either. She was very clear from the get go that she didn't love him, that she just wanted to physically feel something. Spike wasn't led on.
I get that it's the point of the show. I get that it's both in their nature. I just think that sleeping with someone AND hitting them is not okay, in any situations, even the one presented on the show. I understand where Buffy is coming from, and if I was faced with a monster like Spike, I'd want to beat the crap out of him too, but I don't think that makes it okay.
I think Buffy was just in a very vulnerable state and Spike took advantage of it. Which is sad because prior to Tabula Rasa, Spike was actually being somewhat helpful to Buffy. I know that Buffy wasn't trying to lead him on, and Spike shouldn't have been, but it's hard not to be led on by someone that says one thing and constantly comes back to you for sex and comfort. There's so much one can say before the other gets their hopes up. Keep in mind also I'm only talking about the episodes prior to their break up. After that, it's very obvious that Spike's cross the line, and becomes abusive in every sense of the term. But before their break up (I forget the ep, is it when Riley shows up?), I think their relationship was toxic to both of them, and Buffy took a part in that. After that episode, 100% it's all on Spike.
